Act Acting » Acting Agents » Arts vs. Athletics

Arts vs. Athletics

Question:

The school would not pay for the trip…[a]nd yet, the school is in the

midst of spending millions of dollars on a new soccer stadium AND a new pool!  Aaaaah! I don’t see where the "and yet" comes in.  You’re talking about taking

money and the stadium brings in money.  The reasoning seems simple enough. While the reasoning might seem simple, it isn’t necessarily justified.  If I’m not mistaken, Seattle Pacific Univerisity is a non-profit organization.  While I’m not familiar with their mission statement, I would bet that they claim to afford educational opportunities for all their students.  Just because soccer brings in money (and I wonder if it brings in enough to build a stadium–or that a stadium will bring in a lot more money) doesn’t mean that other opportunities should go without. Doing well at ACTF, by the way, is a good way to recruit new students.   Doesn’t it seem more and more that some universities are becoming more interested in making money than offering educational opportunities?

Response:

Total actor salaries are not trackable because of above-the-line salaries…

Jack, What does the term "above the line" mean? Is there a term ‘below the line," too? WAJ                                 * * * * * [This message was posted to the ACTING-L mailing list and relayed to this newsgroup.  You may followup to the newsgroup or, if you are a  member of ACTING-L,  reply  to  the  list.   For  more  information  send E-mail to

Response:

My one night off and I wind up on the computer...this is fun! "above-the-line" means something about being "bankable" or paying far above scale or a normal salary rate.  I get underground information and in it a line is drawn for roles requiring "name" actors and below the line are "scale plus 10" actors.  Of course everything is negotiable but the below the line roles usually don't pay well, where the above the line roles go to the "names" or "stars". Example "above the line" roles start at $500,000 per film and below the line roles usually pay "scale plus 10". "Below the line" is also used for tech people who work for normal salaries, producers, directors, editor, stylists, set designers, casting directors, as differentiated from "above the line" or "Name" artists who are required on Hollywood features to go to financing sources to justify expenditures. I know it sounds confusing but an "above the line" director gets 1 million dollars or more and a "below the line" director gets DGA scale plus agents fees.  Same for actors.  Many talent agencies now have "below the line" departments for representatives of crew members.  10 percent of the $4,000-$6,000 per week that the editor gets for wages plus overtime is a pretty hefty commission for an agent to make. I hope I cleared up some things...sometimes all this knowledge hurts your artistic ablilities...I'll take any audition...I just know what the big guys make...read Variety or the Hollywood Reporter and you'll be dizzy with all the crap you can learn...it doesn't help you establish a character or get an audition, though. It may help me produce a movie someday... By the way, I met a group called the "United Independents", a bunch of frustrated actors who are producing movies...saw some nice work...Most of them are represented by distributors at the American FIlm Market...VERY INTERESTING...Get frustrated enough, you can star in your own feature film...These guys don't sit around waiting for their agent to call...I'm going back to the next meeting...we'll see how it goes... Jack in LA                                 * * * * * [This message was posted to the ACTING-L mailing list and relayed to this newsgroup.  You may followup to the newsgroup or, if you are a  member of ACTING-L,  reply  to  the  list.   For  more  information  send E-mail to

Response:

The truth is the arts outsell sports by about 5 to 1...including television, live audiences etc.  More people go to broadway shows than go to pro basketball games and the tickets are more expensive. Showtime shows far more movies than sports events.  Prime time is filled with teleplays, not with pro sports, the only time pro sports makes it into prime time is when it is the championships.  In a college town, more people go to movies than to sporting events.  More people watch prime time teleplays than go to sporting events. I think the fact that college arts programs are not high profile is the big issue here. College arts programs are for those who are exploring their talents and aren't ready yet to come into the light of day with them. College athletics programs feature athletes that are fully mature in their sport and ready to compete in front of huge crowds. Young actors...from birth to college age, can find creative fulfillment just by being natural and carrying the story along.  Actors that study in college are those who are just starting out and are not ready for big audiences.  If an actor is ready for a big audience at 18 years of age, they are wasting their time in college...the need to be in LA or NY where they can build a big career while they go on auditions,  take acting classes with real professional teachers, and go to college part time. SAG AFTRA residuals alone approach a billion dollars.  Total actor salaries are not trackable because of above-the-line salaries but they are probably over 3 billion in film/tv/commercials alone.  Music salaries are probably over 3 billion too.  Live theater is probably at least 1/2 billion in the US.  Richard Harris made over 90 million for Camelot alone. College is for art students who want to try to develop new skills, not for established performers. College arts programs should remain the place for new talent to try new things...not to try to compete with the pros... College sports is for established seasoned performers because it is professional in every way except for the salaries. When was the last time an actor was supplied with hookers to get him/her to come to a college arts program...College sports is about money, college arts is about providing a nurturing environment for artistic growth. Just an opinion. Jack in LA                                 * * * * * [This message was posted to the ACTING-L mailing list and relayed to this newsgroup.  You may followup to the newsgroup or, if you are a  member of ACTING-L,  reply  to  the  list.   For  more  information  send E-mail to

Response:

Yes, although sport is a valuable part of our culture its transience and

non-transcendence distinguishes it from art...(remainder snipped). As a longtime baseball fan, I would have to disagree with that comment, but will refrain from engaging in debate which is inappropriate to this forum. I will say, though, that I firmly believe that baseball is a particular sport that offers up true moments of transcendence that match anything that performance art has to offer, be it dance, theater, sculpture, whatever. The transitory nature of its being may, perhaps, mean that those moments are few and far between, but I would maintain that they are there, they do exist, and are as rewarding and fulfilling as those of the performing arts. Regards, Geoff                                 * * * * * [This message was posted to the ACTING-L mailing list and relayed to this newsgroup.  You may followup to the newsgroup or, if you are a  member of ACTING-L,  reply  to  the  list.   For  more  information  send E-mail to

Response:

Yes, although sport is a valuable part of our culture its transience and non-transcendence distinguishes it from art and frequently the liking demonstrated for it is part of the mistake of youth; the mistake of recency for maturity and advancement. At least, it was once described as the mistake of youth, but nowadays the consumer society would thus contain so few people who were not 'young' that a better phrase ought to be employed, perhaps the mistake of modernity, although 'modernity' has been used with all sorts of connotations. Spending on sport usually entails competitively increasing investment (perhaps to be called a black hole by those not of a charitable nature), which again adds to the impression of progress and development, but bubbles usually burst eventually, so I'd be encouraged nevertheless if inclined towards art, theatrical or otherwise, which is after all impervious to external temporary fashion and represents a better investment. How many famous sportsmen of 18th Century Vienna can you name? The famous 19th Century quotation about theatre, approved of repeatedly by none other than Cecil B De Mille, was that 'the theatre must be organised as a business or it will fail as an art'. This implies the end in the proper part and proposes that business is indeed the necessary means to this end. Of course, there is the need for education and training in order that the profession should maintain and improve its standards wherever possible, but your college was not necessarily in error in not supporting your venture if there was not a sufficiently businesslike approach demonstrated in the funding approach. It would be unrealistic to expect profit of a student performance, but there should be at least some thought of revenue and return, for the venture as a whole and not just in career terms for the individual participants. It is indeed a progress towards profession, to accept that one cannot be convinced of the correctness of all apparently correct given courses proposed on simply moral grounds, and that as regards the net outcome in the longue duree the judgement of others as commercially expressed must ultimately be the acid test.                                 * * * * * [This message was posted to the ACTING-L mailing list and relayed to this newsgroup.  You may followup to the newsgroup or, if you are a  member of ACTING-L,  reply  to  the  list.   For  more  information  send E-mail to

Response:

The school would not pay for the trip...[a]nd yet, the school is in the midst of spending millions of dollars on a new soccer stadium AND a new pool!  Aaaaah!

I don’t see where the "and yet" comes in.  You’re talking about taking money and the stadium brings in money.  The reasoning seems simple enough. — Daniel                                 * * * * * [This message was posted to the ACTING-L mailing list and relayed to this newsgroup.  You may followup to the newsgroup or, if you are a  member of ACTING-L,  reply  to  the  list.   For  more  information  send E-mail to

Response:

<< The transitory nature of its being may, perhaps, mean that those moments  are few and far between, but I would maintain that they are there, they do  exist, and are as rewarding and fulfilling as those of the performing arts. Gotta agree, I still relive and get a rush from the Giants superbowl victories, I have rented famous fights from my video store, I cried when Thurman Muson died, I remember Reggie Jackson getting mobbed after he broke the record, and I am not even a hardline sports Junkie.  Hell, now there is even a whole network devoted to replaying old games – whole seasons!  Sports might once have been transitory, and we might not know any atheletes from the seventeenth century, but with advent of tv, I’ll bet my grandkids will know and have seen Michael Jordan against New york, switch hands in mid air to get around ewing and dunk that puppy, all while hovering three feet above the rim.    Sports is theatre, a very specific kind, but it’s theatre – just ask the romans. Jeff D.                                 * * * * * [This message was posted to the ACTING-L mailing list and relayed to this newsgroup.  You may followup to the newsgroup or, if you are a  member of ACTING-L,  reply  to  the  list.   For  more  information  send E-mail to

Response:

Yes!Yes!Yes!  I am a sophomore at Seattle Pacific University, majoring in theatre.  We recently finished a production of A.R. Gurney’s "Scenes from American Life," and were one of four shows invited to perform at the regional American College Theatre Festival.  The budget for the trip was worked out to be about $10,000.  The school would not pay for the trip, so for the second year in a row, we were forced to decline the invitation. And yet, the school is in the midst of spending millions of dollars on a new soccer stadium AND a new pool!  Aaaaah! I cannot express how frustrating it was for me and others like me to feel that the arts were not as important to the college ‘powers that be’ as sports were.

                                * * * * * [This message was posted to the ACTING-L mailing list and relayed to this newsgroup.  You may followup to the newsgroup or, if you are a  member of ACTING-L,  reply  to  the  list.   For  more  information  send E-mail to

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