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Do girls get hateful at a certain age?

Question:

 I have known many men who have confessed to me that dating/romance became extremely difficult for them after about age 16. They said that they were doing fine with girls and had several girlfriends between the ages of 11-15 and suddenly when girls hit 16 they start acting more arrogant and raise their standards and become less approachable. I have seen a few pieces of evidence which support this thesis such as the girls from 11-15 act more friendly at the mall than the girls older than that.  One of my friends had a girlfriend at age 13 and didn’t have another girlfriend until he was 25. Is there a small window of opportunity when puberty first begins during which girls are more nice and have more realistic standards?

Response:

JohnBiz writes: > I have known many men who have confessed to me that dating/romance > became extremely difficult for them after about age 16. They said that > they were doing fine with girls and had several girlfriends between the > ages of 11-15 and suddenly when girls hit 16 they start acting more > arrogant and raise their standards and become less approachable.

Girls actually do this at puberty, although they seem to be at their most aggressive somewhat later in adolescence (perhaps due to high testosterone levels?). It’s a consequence of taking a sudden interest in sex and sexual attractiveness.  For girls passing through puberty, this abruptly becomes the most important criterion of choice for partners, and remains so for many years, until the hormones die down again. > I have > seen a few pieces of evidence which support this thesis such as the > girls from 11-15 act more friendly at the mall than the girls older > than that.

Girls only just passing through puberty are interested in all mature males more or less indifferently.  They rapidly develop preferences, however, and as they become more aware of their own sexuality they also become very concerned with appearances and what other people think, as they wish to be sexually attractive.  This makes them more selective as they get older. > One of my friends had a girlfriend at age 13 and didn’t have another > girlfriend until he was 25. Is there a small window of opportunity when > puberty first begins during which girls are more nice and have more > realistic standards?

Yes.  It’s true for both sexes, actually, although boys tend to be more accepting at all ages, since they are so keen on sex, no matter how they get it. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JohnBiz wrote: > I have known many men who have confessed to me that > dating/romance became extremely difficult for them > after about age 16. They said that they were doing > fine with girls and had several girlfriends between > the ages of 11-15 and suddenly when girls hit 16 > they start acting morearrogant and raise their > standards and become less approachable. I have > seen a few pieces of evidence which support this > thesis such as the girls from 11-15 act more friendly > at the mall than the girls older than that. > One of my friends had a girlfriend at age 13 and > didn’t have another girlfriend until he was 25. > Is there a small window of opportunity when puberty > first begins during which girls are more nice and > have more realistic standards?

How do you "do fine" with girls 11-15? When I was that age, "going with someone" — which was what dating/romance, such as it was, was called — meant you ate with them during lunch, walked with them to the bus lot when school let out, talked to each other on the phone after school, walked with each other to classes, etc. There might have been a very small number of guys who did more than this, but I would imagine these types (the pre-Fonzie types) had very little interaction with the type of guys who post in here. I pursued several girls during my middle school years (one girl pretty much exclusively my entire 8′th grade, who I’ve posted about a few times in here), and I knew several other guys who had crushes back then, but when I think back to which guys _actually_ went with a girl (rather than just pursued a girl unsuccessfully), it was always the more mature looking outlaw type. By "outlaw type", I don’t mean literally of course. I’m talking about the guy whose grades were around the class average or lower (and so they were probably not planning to attend college), who often didn’t do his homework, who got called down by the teacher a lot, and who was perhaps beginning to take up smoking. By age 16 or 17, a lot of these types no longer held their high position with girls in my school. Many of them had dropped out of school or were otherwise beginning to have problems. At my high school, there was a shift towards guys who were successful in athletics and who had a decent "school presence". For athletics, how successful depended on the sport: for football or basketball, just being on the team was usually enough; for something like track or tennis, you had to be in the top two or three of the school; for golf, I’m not sure what it took because I can’t recall any of our school’s golf players having any girls interested in them. In general, "school presence" was obtained by being an officer in several clubs, the school newspaper editor, high up on the yearbook staff, etc. Academics played a role too, but only up to a point. For guys, starting around the top 10% to 15%, your status began to drop extremely rapidly as you advanced higher in rank, because the nerd stigma would override everything else. Around age 18 to 19 (high school Senior to first year of college), the top 10% to 15% start to gain back what they had lost due to the nerd stigma when they were 16 and 17. My observations have been that by age 20 or 21, as long as the guy is reasonably outgoing and at least average looking and average intelligence, he’s not going to be deemed unworthy by most girls (even if only a few girls might actually be interested enough in him to want to date him). I think the "niceness" of girls 11-15 that you’re seeing is nothing more than the aura of respect and mystery that an older guy (but not old enough to generate the "Eeeew!" response) appears in the eyes of these girls. If you and your friends really did have more success with girls being interested in you (for actually being a guy, and not just for being a classmate) when you were this young yourselves, your experiences are quite different from anything I saw then or have seen since. By the way, I’m not saying that girls that age were harsh with rejection or anything, just that there were only a handful (as in 4 to 6) of guys in my grade (around 100 people total) who girls were interested in (*). None of the other guys even registered on the girls’ radar screens, at least during the 11-13 age period. This rapidly rose to maybe 15 or 20 guys by ages 15 or 16, though. So maybe what you’re remembering isn’t acceptance as much as a lack of harsh rejection, because really young girls haven’t yet gained the ability to nip things in the bud when a guy who she’s not interested in begins pursuing her. (*) To be honest, the number of girls who guys were     interested in was probably not much more than     this at these ages (11-13). However, percentage     of girls that a resonable percentage of guys were     interested in quickly rose to 85% or 90% of all     girls by age 15 or so. Virgo Cluster . "Stupid Government and Bureaucracy in the U.S.A. .. .. The U.S. government — and all other official and .. quasi-official bureaucracies — is the source of much .. material on the stupid side of things. Perhaps this .. surprises you. Perhaps you think, as a red-blooded .. patriot, that it is impossible for the government .. (whether federal, state, or municipal) to do anything .. stupid … and for our elected or appointed officials .. to do anything stupid. (Perhaps you also haven’t been .. reading the papers, watching television news, or keeping .. up with current events. But that is none of our business.) .. .. Great Moments in Enlightened Self-Interest for Our .. Public Servants .. .. People who work for the city, state, and federal governments .. are often called "public servants". The idea is that they .. serve the public selflessly; they set aside the chance for .. big money — say the $189 million Derek Jeter of the New .. York Yankees is getting — and instead settle for lower .. government salaries and benefits and per diems and .. mandatory in-step pay raises and job security and .. performance bonuses and rock-solid retirement packages … .. But for some, this is not enough. .. .. Let us acknowledge those who just want a little more .. and have the guts to go out and get it (even if it is .. sometimes just a mite unethical): .. .. Presidential and Pentagon adviser Richard Perle, who .. has raised the notion of "hairsplitting" to a fine art: .. .. Technically not an official government employee, he’s .. instead termed a "special government employee" — and .. he has gotten some "special" money. More to the point, .. he served as chairman of the Defense Policy Board, a .. group that advises Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, .. _and_ just happens to also be involved with telecom .. company Global Crossing, which wanted to get government .. approval for selling its fiber-optic network to two .. Asian firms. For helping Global Crossing, Perle was .. due to receive a cool $725,000. Some felt this was a .. possible conflict of interest, and a government group .. reviewed the deal. Confronted with keeping the money .. or keeping his job title as a very special servant of .. the public, Perle took the principled high road: He took .. the money. A man of "integrity and honor", to quote .. Rumsfeld, Perle resigned the _chairmanship_ of the .. government advisory group and kept his chance for the .. big money. He, however, continues to serve on the .. board itself." .. << Kathryn Petras and Ross Petras, "Unusually Stupid .. Americans: A Compendium of All-American Stupidity", .. Villard Books, 2003, pp. 33-34 >>

Response:

That’s quite an interesting viewpoint on the rationality. I’ve not thought of it like that before. Respect.

Response:

Lash Rambo <lra…@obmarl.com> in news:Xns965DE5DDCE7F0lramboobmarlcom@68.12.19.6: > I noticed it really start to kick in around 10 (grade 3 or 4) with both > sexes.  Suddenly I lost all my friends and girls seemed to feel actual > physical discomfort being in my presence.

the viciousness accelerated more around 7th grade (12 yo)  was my experience.. although i think the girsl were still ignoring me.. not much change with girls..

Response:

they start looking me as potential mates, and don’t want to hang out with ones they don’t feel suitable for that purpose, since the men they are interested in won’t approach them if they are tied up.  It’s not a plot.

Response:

This is true. My nephew’s banging this bird at the moment, he’s going through the "imagine no possessions" phase that some people who’ve had a plentiful childhood have. I’ve yet to see him, because I just want to put the record straight which is "She’s saying love will keep her warm now, but I promise she’ll change her mind by the time she’s 27."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Mon, 23 May 2005 07:15:08 GMT, Hardpan <hard…@yahoo.com> wrote: >On Mon, 23 May 2005 05:55:15 GMT, The Watcher ><G.William_…@hotmail.com> wrote: >>On Mon, 23 May 2005 06:52:50 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsma…@hotmail.com> >>wrote: >>>The Watcher writes: >>>> I guess what I was referring to was the politically condoned (not >>>> correct) "boys on the side" or "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" >>>> culture that hits after puberty sets in. >>>I’ve never seen that.  Where do you live? >>For now, canada. Probably (and want to) move south because I’ve come >>to really hate the lies and distractions politicians/media commits >>against its population. At least with the states you know what to >>expect which makes it a bit more honest in a very odd way. >You know very little about the US then. >Our politicians are liars and  crooks as well. Not only that but the >US is fast turning into fascist state the likes of which we destroyed >60 years ago in Nazi Germany.

Fascism is alive and well in canada. Excessive controls on media, sheer lack of consultation or public input. Old PM’s found making shady deals (including the mafia) with one of the biggest public disinterest campaign I’ve ever seen (no mention of getting rid of some unsophisticated competitors while using public generated propaganda created by state owned media). It’s really that fucked. >Plenty of Americans would be glad to move to Canada and enjoy your >democracy and your healthcare benefits, of which we lose more by the >day.

The healthcare is mostly a joke, nightmare stories from family and friends are way too common. Like most things in life you get what you pay for, but in canada paying for medical care is illegal (suing them to change it is almost impossible, thanks to legislation) GP’s are better but a short freeze on hiring new doctors a few years back left a 1-8 year wait for a family doctor, when he/she retires or you move to a different city, the whole process starts again. >If you value your privacy and your freedoms do not move to the US, >unless you are willing to fight.

The patriot act almost raises the US to canadian standards in privacy but there’s still a way to go. >America is a democracy in name only now, and most people here are to >stupid to see it for what it is.

When members of the media are activist, democracy dies (ie America). In canada, we’re almost entirely legislated through judical governance (which isn’t democracy in any way shape or form). Occasionally there’s the pretense of democracy, most recently, ganging up on gays because a majority seemed to lean that way. Mostly it’s superficial pandering to ego’s created by special interest groups. If you like a lot of gloss and don’t mind toting the partyline, canada is perfect for you. If you find gloss as disgusting as I do, Amerika is a better place to live.

Response:

On Mon, 23 May 2005 06:15:06 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsma…@hotmail.com> wrote: >The Watcher writes: >> In my opinion it’s taught as self esteem. Girls don’t really exclude >> other girls from their hateful behavior until she becomes interested >> in sex. >Girls are very hostile to each other in many situations, especially >after puberty.

Yup that’s true, sometimes hear about a girl getting scalped by a woman because she wasn’t behaving properly or a mob rushing a house to beat a teenager to death for talking to a boyfriend of another girl. I guess what I was referring to was the politically condoned (not correct) "boys on the side" or "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" culture that hits after puberty sets in.

Response:

The Watcher writes: > I guess what I was referring to was the politically condoned (not > correct) "boys on the side" or "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" > culture that hits after puberty sets in.

I’ve never seen that.  Where do you live? Girls begin to take a keen interest in boys after puberty and are much less likely to be hostile towards them in consequence.  Of course, this applies to boys generally–not to the ugly ones, who may experience hostility. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

Mxsmanic wrote: > The Watcher writes: > > In my opinion it’s taught as self esteem. Girls don’t really exclude > > other girls from their hateful behavior until she becomes interested > > in sex. > Girls are very hostile to each other in many situations, especially > after puberty.

Particularly when a sons moooma catches her sons wife fucking another guy on the side. Female on Female RAGE! Great investigators these women (of each other).

Response:

On Mon, 23 May 2005 06:52:50 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsma…@hotmail.com> wrote: >The Watcher writes: >> I guess what I was referring to was the politically condoned (not >> correct) "boys on the side" or "boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" >> culture that hits after puberty sets in. >I’ve never seen that.  Where do you live?

For now, canada. Probably (and want to) move south because I’ve come to really hate the lies and distractions politicians/media commits against its population. At least with the states you know what to expect which makes it a bit more honest in a very odd way. >Girls begin to take a keen interest in boys after puberty and are much >less likely to be hostile towards them in consequence.  Of course, this >applies to boys generally–not to the ugly ones, who may experience >hostility.

That makes a lot of sense. Old habits transform into new ones with a heightened natural bias against unattractiveness in males. Good point. It also seems without insincere flattery comes a wealth of abuse.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sun, 22 May 2005 14:40:48 -0700, Hardpan <hard…@yahoo.com> wrote: >On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:05:15 GMT, "Pumpkinhead" ><pumpkin_head060…@hotmail.com> wrote: >>I think they start getting hateful at the age of 5 but there is some other >>kind of threshold of hate they cross when they are about 16. >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mean_girls >But women really get hateful when they find themselves in their >forty’s, looking in the mirror and viewing all the crow’s feet, the >drooping butts and breasts, the sagging underarms, the cellulite >buildup and the dry vagina’s all reminding them that their glory days >are long since behind them. >Many are ready for the rubber room at that point, and they hate >themselves even more then they did when they were younger >and thought they were all that and more. >It almost makes one feel sorry for them. >Almost :)

In my opinion it’s taught as self esteem. Girls don’t really exclude other girls from their hateful behavior until she becomes interested in sex. Sometimes the only way a person can say no to someone, is if she is angry with the person she’s saying no to. Hardly a female characteristic, but only girls are taught marginalizing or anger as policy. That angry soon develops into something hate-like or hateful which is reinforced with victim psychology and perceived limitations. With that fixation, the character depreciates as she settles for someone else’s second best on a curve that isn’t her own. Inferiority complex? Then the blame game comes in, which kinda sorta removes her ability to make her own mistakes and learn from them A disadvantage of the pretense of self-esteem is the need for reinforcement either through others or excessive materialism which is kind of strange because result without praise or reward probably holds the highest personal value. It’s a bit too generalized but probably applies to a few women (and men) I know.

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conno…@hotmail.com writes: > On sixty minutes last night a feminAZI was proclaiming grumpy old men @ > 40 and fucked because of their loss of power and status.

Men tend to gain in power over time, unless they were losers to begin with.  Most are in a better position at 40 than they were at 20. Indeed, this is one of the attractions of older men for younger women. Of course, men who have no power at 40 are out of luck; even women in that age group are often looking for meal tickets, which excludes any man without a good income and position. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

The Watcher writes: > In my opinion it’s taught as self esteem. Girls don’t really exclude > other girls from their hateful behavior until she becomes interested > in sex.

Girls are very hostile to each other in many situations, especially after puberty. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

"Pumpkinhead" <pumpkin_head060…@hotmail.com> wrote in news:%_Ije.12443$yY4.5754@newsfe5-win.ntli.net: > I think they start getting hateful at the age of 5 but there is some > other kind of threshold of hate they cross when they are about 16. > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mean_girls

I noticed it really start to kick in around 10 (grade 3 or 4) with both sexes.  Suddenly I lost all my friends and girls seemed to feel actual physical discomfort being in my presence.

Response:

Lash Rambo writes: > I noticed it really start to kick in around 10 (grade 3 or 4) with both > sexes.  Suddenly I lost all my friends and girls seemed to feel actual > physical discomfort being in my presence.

I had the same experience, but not that early.  It was at least sixth grade before girls discovered I was ugly and lost interest in me.  This correlates very precisely with puberty.  Prepubescent girls could still be my friends, but those who had passed through puberty weren’t interested in anyone as ugly as me. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:05:15 GMT, "Pumpkinhead" <pumpkin_head060…@hotmail.com> wrote: >I think they start getting hateful at the age of 5 but there is some other >kind of threshold of hate they cross when they are about 16. >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mean_girls

But women really get hateful when they find themselves in their forty’s, looking in the mirror and viewing all the crow’s feet, the drooping butts and breasts, the sagging underarms, the cellulite buildup and the dry vagina’s all reminding them that their glory days are long since behind them. Many are ready for the rubber room at that point, and they hate themselves even more then they did when they were younger and thought they were all that and more. It almost makes one feel sorry for them. Almost :)

Response:

Hardpan wrote: > On Sat, 21 May 2005 16:05:15 GMT, "Pumpkinhead" > <pumpkin_head060…@hotmail.com> wrote: > >I think they start getting hateful at the age of 5 but there is some other > >kind of threshold of hate they cross when they are about 16.

On sixty minutes last night a feminAZI was proclaiming grumpy old men @ 40 and fucked because of their loss of power and status. > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mean_girls > But women really get hateful when they find themselves in their > forty’s, looking in the mirror and viewing all the crow’s feet, the > drooping butts and breasts, the sagging underarms, the cellulite > buildup and the dry vagina’s all reminding them that their glory days > are long since behind them. > Many are ready for the rubber room at that point, and they hate > themselves even more then they did when they were younger > and thought they were all that and more. > It almost makes one feel sorry for them.

NEVER. The femiNAZI on tha TV last nite represented the above perfectly.

Response:

** Virgo Cluster ** >> How do you "do fine" with girls 11-15? When I was that >> age, "going with someone" — which was what dating/romance, >> such as it was, was called — meant you ate with them >> during lunch, walked with them to the bus lot when school >> let out, talked to each other on the phone after school, >> walked with each other to classes, etc.

** Mxsmanic ** > What other things would you want?

At that age, nothing. But the original poster’s first sentence, "I have known many men who have confessed to me that dating/romance became extremely difficult for them after about age 16.", suggests more by its use of the term "dating/romance". My comment above was meant to suggest that part of what might be making the original poster think he was doing well with girls when he was younger was that, as he got older, "doing well" meant a lot more than what I wrote about. Maybe girls began to interpret his actions more as friendship gestures than romantic gestures. The guys who were able to change easily managed to move on, while the guys who weren’t able to change easily started to fall behind. Virgo Cluster . "Stupid Government and Bureaucracy in the U.S.A. .. .. The U.S. government — and all other official and .. quasi-official bureaucracies — is the source of much .. material on the stupid side of things. Perhaps this .. surprises you. Perhaps you think, as a red-blooded .. patriot, that it is impossible for the government .. (whether federal, state, or municipal) to do anything .. stupid … and for our elected or appointed officials .. to do anything stupid. (Perhaps you also haven’t been .. reading the papers, watching television news, or keeping .. up with current events. But that is none of our business.) .. .. JIM MCGREEVY: THE PEOPLE’S GOVERNOR .. .. Our nomination for "The People’s Governor": governor of .. New Jersey Jim McGreevey, for the following meritorious .. actions: .. .. Suggested that state workers work for 90 days without .. pay to save the state money. Didn’t seem to offer much .. in the way of cutting his own pay, however." .. << Kathryn Petras and Ross Petras, "Unusually Stupid .. Americans: A Compendium of All-American Stupidity", .. Villard Books, 2003, pp. 33 & 37 >>

Response:

I think they start getting hateful at the age of 5 but there is some other kind of threshold of hate they cross when they are about 16. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/mean_girls

Response:

Virgo Cluster writes: > How do you "do fine" with girls 11-15? When I was that > age, "going with someone" — which was what dating/romance, > such as it was, was called — meant you ate with them > during lunch, walked with them to the bus lot when school > let out, talked to each other on the phone after school, > walked with each other to classes, etc.

What other things would you want? — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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