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New here — Q about ADD and anxiety

Question:

Our 10 year old son is struggling in school.  For the past two years we have suspected he has ADD without hyperactivity.  He tests borderline and it has been frustratingly difficult to get the school to take it seriously.  This year (4th grade) he is struggling more than ever.  As a result, he is extremely anxious about school.  He cannot relax at all, cries very easily, etc.  The teacher and principal are now suggesting that he has clinical problems with anxiety… I feel the learning problems are at the core, and the anxiety follows.  The principal seems to see the anxiety as the underlying problem.  He is not anxious at home or in other settings (although he has always been a conscientious kid who tries hard to please adults in authority). If we consider medication, what affects do ADD meds have on anxiety?  What affects do anti-anxiety meds have on ADD? We have been seeing a therapist this fall and that person is coincidentally an expert on ADD.  While we did not originally seek him out for this purpose or even know this, and while he has not suggested ADD as a diagnosis, we are meeting with him Tuesday to explore this more fully.  I’m looking for advice and questions to ask when we meet with him, as well as tips on how to work with the school more effectively. Does this sound familiar to anyone?  Do you often see anxiety follow ADD, or learning problems follow anxiety?  How do you determine which problem to address first? TIA…

Response:

Our 10 year old son is struggling in school.  For the past two years we have suspected he has ADD without hyperactivity.  He tests borderline and it has been frustratingly difficult to get the school to take it seriously.

I had that problem too, with my son.  You have to keep pushing.  Some teachers and schools are more supportive than others. This year (4th grade) he is struggling more than ever.  As a result, he is extremely anxious about school.  He cannot relax at all, cries very easily, etc. The teacher and principal are now suggesting that he has clinical problems with anxiety…

Pardon me for questioning whether or not a teacher or principal is trained to diagnose clinical anxiety. I feel the learning problems are at the core, and the anxiety follows.

You know your child better than anyone else.  The teachers only see him at school, and if he has learning difficulties, then it’s not suprising to find that he is having trouble settling at school.  He might be getting upset about it and at 10 feeling competent in your abilities is so important. Have you thought that he might be being bullied or teased.  My son was at that age, and he was very anxious, had stomach pains and didn’t want to go to school.  Turned out he was having trouble with some of the other kids. He hadn’t told me though.  It came out later. Oh and btw, I believe that kids with ADD are a bit more sensitive than other children.  The tears could be part of ADD sensitivity. The principal seems to see the anxiety as the underlying problem.  He is not anxious at home or in other settings (although he has always been a conscientious kid who tries hard to please adults in authority).

Not sure why the principal is arguing with you on this.  It’s not within his parameters as principal to diagnose anxiety.  A bit strange to offer his own diagnosis I think. If we consider medication, what affects do ADD meds have on anxiety?  What affects do anti-anxiety meds have on ADD?

Some meds can increase existing anxiety.  My son suffered from a little anxiety at the commencement of his medication.  He had been hyperventilating at school and was nervous and anxious often.  He started on dexamphetamine and for a few weeks he seemed more anxious.  I was about to consider discontinuting this treatment but decided to see if it would go on it’s own as he was having such benefits academically.  I lowered the dose for a week and then upped it again, and this time he was more irritable and moody, but no anxiety at all.  I read up on it and found that this was probably due to his having too high a dose, so I lowered his dose to 1 and half tablets instead of 2.  Now he’s doing great.  He’s really starting to feel good about his schoolwork, but he still hates the school, as he gets teased at times. We have been seeing a therapist this fall and that person is coincidentally an expert on ADD.  While we did not originally seek him out for this purpose or even know this, and while he has not suggested ADD as a diagnosis, we are meeting with him Tuesday to explore this more fully.  I’m looking for advice and questions to ask when we meet with him, as well as tips on how to work with the school more effectively.

I’m sort of at the same stage as you really.  I’ve started medication, and we are seeing if it helps and it certainly does in terms of concentration and confidence. He’s a much more relaxed boy.  I think that my boy has ADHD, with hyperactivity which is now more of a restless mind and fidgety thing than running around and being silly.  He is calmer and less agitated on the medication, and definately can keep focussed more easily. Things about my son that I noticed were that he had trouble settling down to work.  He would procrastinate and try to avoid work.  He would find excuses not to start and would swear blind that he’d been working hard, when he’d done very little.  He was extremely easily distracted and annoyed by anything that disturbed him.  He was restless and used to get up a lot and wander around whilst doing homework, and what should have taken ten minutes, took over an hour.  He would do nothing if left unsupervised and was not able to plan or structure his homework.  He seemed overwhelmed by the amount of things he had to do when he had a project and so wouldn’t know where to start.  His work was very carelessly done, and he rushed through things to get them done, but didn’t do them properly.   He is chronically disorganised at school and loses things often, but, as he gets older, this is lessening a little.    He has a very low tolerance for frustration and gives up difficult things quickly.  He has a series of avoidance techniques.  But, I think that he has ADHD as I said. My brother has ADD, and he used to daydream all the time and would seem to phase out.  He didn’t seem to hear you when you spoke to him and didn’t seem to understand instructions at all.  He is slightly different to my son who is loud and very obviously frustrated. Does this sound familiar to anyone?  Do you often see anxiety follow ADD, or learning problems follow anxiety?  How do you determine which problem to address first?

I guess you’d want to speak to your specialist about that.  I’m a beginner to this myself, so I’m not sure.  I guess you would try medication for ADD first and see how that goes. Good luck anyway.  Does anyone else in your family have it?  It’s quite common to find that other family members also have it I believe. preciosa – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TIA…

Response:

If we consider medication, what affects do ADD meds have on anxiety?  What affects do anti-anxiety meds have on ADD?

If the real underlying problem is ADD, then the meds will very likely help with the anxiety.  It is anxiety provoking to be all the time losing things, forgetting your homeowrk at home, getting in trouble, etc.

Response:

If we consider medication, what affects do ADD meds have on anxiety?  What affects do anti-anxiety meds have on ADD?

correct me if I’m wrong but ADD is treated with stimulants, sure to antagonize anxiety, and vice versa one thing you can do, is pursue your childs motives, because motives do have the possibility of transcending neurosis give him a look around the world and show him the importance of education, show him the likelyhood of him living even a bourgeois life without education, eventually this will sink in, and the more it relates to his immediate interests, the better I can’t stress the concept of presenting role models of what you want to emphasize, and role models reflecting the antithesis of what you want to emphasize enough, and if they are not real people, he does have the intellectual avenue of concluding that your suppositions are not real introduce him to some unfortunate children who don’t have the luxuries he takes for granted, show him some children more fortunate than himself, it is very possible you have created a little utopia that he is more than willing to live in, and even finds sanctuary in when reality presents itself elsewhere, you need to instill the idea that he does have to face such a reality, without unneccesarily robbing him of his sanctuary and for the sake of Christ, don’t underestimate the lifelong trauma of labeling him with an incurable neurological disorder

Response:

I feel the learning problems are at the core, and the anxiety follows. The principal seems to see the anxiety as the underlying problem.  He is not anxious at home or in other settings (although he has always been a conscientious kid who tries hard to please adults in authority).

The principal has diagnosed him as having anxiety?  I would ask to see his medical degree…. If we consider medication, what affects do ADD meds have on anxiety?  What affects do anti-anxiety meds have on ADD?

I would not worry about diagnoses until one is determined by a *doctor*…but, FWIW, wouldn’t it depend on what was causing the anxiety? If untreated ADHD was causing his anxiety, and his ADHD was treated, wouldn’t that mitigate the anxiety? IOW *DISCUSS MEDICAL DIAGNOSES WITH A MEDICAL DOCTOR-NOT A SCHOOL EMPLOYEE* But share what needs to be shared about a doctor’s diagnosis with the school as needed to ensure the student has a chance to succeed… One last comment….I was seen by a psychatrist (who beleives that ADHD is overdiagnosed–found that out *after* the appt !) that all I had was anxiety.  He gave me behavioral-mods (that I already used!) and nothing changed….a year later, my son’s doc set up an appt with me and diagnosed me with ADHD.  I began treatment, and "Lo and Behold"…no more "anxiety"….. — Buny be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Some meds can increase existing anxiety.  My son suffered from a little anxiety at the commencement of his medication.  He had been hyperventilating at school and was nervous and anxious often.  He started on dexamphetamine and for a few weeks he seemed more anxious.  I was about to consider discontinuting this treatment but decided to see if it would go on it’s own as he was having such benefits academically.  I lowered the dose for a week and then upped it again, and this time he was more irritable and moody, but no anxiety at all.  I read up on it and found that this was probably due to his having too high a dose, so I lowered his dose to 1 and half tablets instead of 2.  Now he’s doing great.  He’s really starting to feel good about his schoolwork, but he still hates the school, as he gets teased at times.

<nodding  It took less than 2 days to determine that adderall was not the one for my son…he (at age8) was like a hormonal woman with the worst case of PMS possible!  Concerta has been the answer for him, medically (this is *with* all the modifications I have dicussed many times) — Buny be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

<SNIP of a prime example of such insulated Utopia of parenting introduce him to some unfortunate children who don’t have the luxuries he takes for granted, show him some children more fortunate than himself, it is very possible you have created a little utopia that he is more than willing to live in, and even finds sanctuary in when reality presents itself elsewhere, you need to instill the idea that he does have to face such a reality, without unneccesarily robbing him of his sanctuary

In the perfect world, this could be possible…but we are real-world parents dealing with real-world children…..who happen to not be Stepford brats/cookie cutter children….. Perhaps you should do some volunteering at special ed centers to see what I am talking about? — Buny be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

who happen to not be Stepford brats/cookie cutter children no, they’re pharmaceutically dumbed down exploited children with a lifelong oppressive label of neurological  irrepair that has lifelong social and legal implications making them institutionalized second citizens FOR ALL OF THEIR EARTHLY LIVES, because you and your ilk in society are too involved in other things to bother with their upbringing, how irresponsible and arrogant of you to have children and treat them as such

<clueless  Considering I spend 40+ hours a week working with my sons, their schools (and *in* their schools), their teachers, their therapists, etc…not to mention several dozen environmental- and behavioral-modifications needed to establish consistant routines…..I would hardly say that I am "too involved with other things to bother with their upbringins"…. Now, their being "dumbed down" to make other people like you comfortable (one is gifted, the other is nearly so–both in AP/Honors classes)–*that* I would believe–but perhaps we have not "dumbed down" enough for you to understand this concept… <plonk — Buny be normal." ~ Albert Camus

Response:

Does this sound familiar to anyone?  Do you often see anxiety follow ADD, or learning problems follow anxiety?  How do you determine which problem to address first?

Here’s my experience with ADD and anxiety… I have had ADD my whole life, but until about a year ago, it went undiagnosed. I was able to get good grades in school, although somewhat inconsistently–but usually I could rely on my intelligence and last-minute tricks to get me a good grade, even when I had paid attention only sporadically to the subject matter. Three years ago, I entered college. The problems that I’d had in high school, with paying attention in class and getting my work done on time, got much worse with the challenge of college courses. I loved many of my classes but couldn’t seem to make myself do the work for them, and for the classes I *didn’t* like, it was hopeless to even try to do the work, because it didn’t hold my attention. I started to feel anxious all the time about not being able to do my work, and of course, the anxiety made it even harder to do my work. I started to have panic attacks as well. I definitely feel that the anxiety and panic attacks came from my ADD, and not the other way around. There was so much pressure on me to do well in college, and my ADD made it so hard to do so, and that discrepancy created the feelings of anxiety. As far as your question about medication, I’ve found that sometimes, stimulants (I’ve tried both Ritalin and Adderall as well as long acting forms of each) do increase my anxiety. But sometimes they don’t. I’m not sure what causes each state–it seems to be random! Sophie — "Am I really wonderful?" asked the Scarecrow. "You are unusual," replied Glinda.

Response:

who happen to not be Stepford brats/cookie cutter children

no, they’re pharmaceutically dumbed down exploited children with a lifelong oppressive label of neurological  irrepair that has lifelong social and legal implications making them institutionalized second citizens FOR ALL OF THEIR EARTHLY LIVES, because you and your ilk in society are too involved in other things to bother with their upbringing, how irresponsible and arrogant of you to have children and treat them as such

Response:

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