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Should I trust her?

Question:

Thanks so much for your responses. In situations like this I can’t see the forest for the trees so it really helped to hear from people removed from the emotions of it all. Just composing the post helped me to think about this situation with a little less fear and emotion. I had originally planned to press the matter further in order bring out more details and get everything out in the open. I felt that this would help me to better understand what happened and why. After further thought and reading your replies I have decided that it is probably best to just leave it alone. I am deeply grateful for my wife’s honesty and integrity  (in dealing with the incident itself and in dealing with me).  I don’t know if I would have had the courage to be honest with her, if the tables were turned. Pressing the matter would just insult the honesty that she demonstrated to me.

Response:

On Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:07:16 GMT, "startandstop" <startands…@hotmail.com> wrote:

<snip> >Last night my wife and I were discussing a TV documentary we had seen about >marital infidelity. I asked, almost kiddingly, if in our 15 years of >marriage, she had ever had an affair. I was shocked when she said "Well… >not an affair, but something did happen with Mark".

<snip> >She told me that she was racked with guilt and wanted to tell me right away. >She was afraid to tell me for all the obvious reasons but was also afraid >that I would pull the kids off of the baseball team they loved so much. (I >definitely would have too!)

<snip> >She said, right afterwards she went to confession for the first >time in years and told the priest what had happened. The priest  told her >that no serious sin had been committed but to "be careful". She decided to >keep it to herself but vowed to herself to be honest with me if I ever came >out and asked her directly. This is why she told me about it last night.

Never ask a question if you fear the response.   Why did you even ask this question?  Have you been contemplating an affair for yourself or have you just had "lust in your heart" at some time in the past (to paraphrase Jimmy Carter during his first Presidential campaign)? <snip> >As I think about this more critically, I can’t get past a couple of things >that seem strange about her story. >First, why was she so racked with guilt (to the point of seeing a priest) if >her role was as innocent as she made it seem? If Mark initiated the whole >thing, and she rejected him, why would she feel such guilt? Was it simply >because she did not initially resist and kissed him back?

<snip> Forget your wife for a minute and think about rape victims … often women do not report rapes because they are afraid they will be accused of wanting it to happen or that they were looking for some action. Additionally they are mortified with embarassment that they could not anticipate or prevent the rape. It seems to me your wife probably was in shock … what is her personality type?   If she is a big woman who is always "out there" she might have grabbed a lamp and whacked the jerk over his head but if she tends to the quiet "respectable" side, avoiding confrontations, what she did  would be perfectly normal for that personality type. >She swore to me, very convincingly, that the incident never got more >physical than just the kiss. I do believe her, but because of the >inconsistencies mentioned above I can’t help feeling like I don’t have the >whole story. Please tell me what you think.

I’ll bet you have the whole story … she knew you would be angry and pull your kids off the team.  She went to her priest and took his advice.  When you asked her directly, I am amazed she bothered to mention this at all since it was not an affair … it was an inappropriate move by someone who you now know uses and takes advantage of people (money, sex, physical abuse). Why do you want to make a big deal out of this?  Perhaps you should consider counseling to find out what is really bothering you.   On the other hand, maybe I missed something – others will be along shortly with a more piercing analysis. Floridanewbie

Response:

My impression is that your wife was "conned" by this disturbed person, Mark. He is extremely manipulative and possibly she felt gradually coerced by him into more closeness than she wanted. I bet she is extremely ashamed of having been conned and then sadistically blackmailed by this man. I think if you could talk about her shame and humiliation first, then you’ll find out if more actually occurred. Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"startandstop" <startands…@hotmail.com> writes: > About five years my wife, kids and I were very involved in little league > baseball. We all really liked the coach ,Mark. He was a very talented > athlete, was great with the kids and was a lot of fun to talk to.  After > about a year we became friends outside of baseball and would occasionally > get together socially with him and his girlfriend. > Mark would occasionally ask me to create business documents for him since he > did not have a computer. Normally he would drop by our house in the evening > to work with me in creating these documents. A couple of times he came over > during the day when I was at work and asked my wife to print copies of > something for him. He and his girlfriend had a very rocky relationship and > he found it easy to talk to my wife about the problems they were having. > This made me a bit uncomfortable at the time but I trusted my wife and, for > the most part, trusted him also. > One evening, he came by when we both were home. He was really upset that he > and his girlfriend had had a major argument. He asked to speak with me > alone. He said that he had told his girlfriend that she should be more like > my wife in terms of cooking, cleaning and generally taking care of domestic > business (because she is a slob). She accused him of having an affair with > my wife and kicked him out of the house. Almost in tears, he said that he > came by just to let me know that nothing had ever happened between him and > my wife and that he considered me to be a good friend and would never do > such a thing. He said that he did not want to lose our friendship over this > and that he wanted to let me know about this argument before I found out > through his girlfriend. I told him that, in fact, I was not really > comfortable with him coming by when I was not at home but that I believed > him and that I would let him know loud and clear if I ever felt that there > was a problem. > I continued to do favors for him occasionally and he would still drop by > during the day once in a while. I eventually became more uncomfortable with > the way he would confide in my wife about his problems. I told my wife I was > not comfortable with their relationship anymore that I did not want him to > come over during the day when I was not home. I don’t recall if it stopped > immediately, but it did stop to the point that there was no contact at all > outside of baseball. This was primarily due to a falling out we had with him > over money that he owed to us and refused to repay. As time passed we > discovered, through friends and personal experience, that he was a > manipulator and had screwed over many former friends and business partners. > We also found out that he has been arrested several times for domestic > abuse. Mark eventually quite coaching and ended up marrying his girlfriend. > Neither my wife nor I have had any real contact with him anymore, although > my wife and his wife have become friends and talk on the phone once in a > while. > Last night my wife and I were discussing a TV documentary we had seen about > marital infidelity. I asked, almost kiddingly, if in our 15 years of > marriage, she had ever had an affair. I was shocked when she said "Well… > not an affair, but something did happen with Mark". She told me that one > day, several years ago, he had come over to the house to print something. > She said that as he was leaving he kissed her. She said that he caught her > off guard but that she did not resist and kissed him back. She then told him > "I can’t do this. I am married and have three kids".  She said that he > backed off and asked her not to say anything to me about it. He said, "If > you tell your husband he will just blame you anyway because I know he trusts > me." She said that she was shocked that he said this. She told me that they > agreed it would be best to just forget that it ever happened. > She told me that she was racked with guilt and wanted to tell me right away. > She was afraid to tell me for all the obvious reasons but was also afraid > that I would pull the kids off of the baseball team they loved so much. (I > definitely would have too!) My oldest son really looked up to Mark. She did > not want to jeopardize all that over a kiss. She also said that she was > worried that Mark might eventually say something to me or to his girlfriend. > She said, "Since we agreed to forget about it and he kept his word, I kept > mine too." She said, right afterwards she went to confession for the first > time in years and told the priest what had happened. The priest  told her > that no serious sin had been committed but to "be careful". She decided to > keep it to herself but vowed to herself to be honest with me if I ever came > out and asked her directly. This is why she told me about it last night. > I was grateful for her honesty. I really do understand why she waited so > long to come clean, although I wish she would have told me right away. I > feel pretty foolish now because I know that I was still acting as a friend > to Mark for a couple of years after this incident. I must have looked like > an idiot to my wife given what she knew and what I was oblivious to. > As I think about this more critically, I can’t get past a couple of things > that seem strange about her story. > First, why was she so racked with guilt (to the point of seeing a priest) if > her role was as innocent as she made it seem? If Mark initiated the whole > thing, and she rejected him, why would she feel such guilt? Was it simply > because she did not initially resist and kissed him back? > Second, and most importantly, she stated that she was worried that HE would > say something to me or to his girlfriend and that "He kept his word to > forget about it, so I kept mine".  Why would she worry that he would let the > cat out of the bag? If he initiated the pass, why on earth would he tell me > or his girlfriend about it? And, why would she feel obligated to do the > same? > She swore to me, very convincingly, that the incident never got more > physical than just the kiss. I do believe her, but because of the > inconsistencies mentioned above I can’t help feeling like I don’t have the > whole story. Please tell me what you think.

Response:

> startandstop said… > [snip] > First, why was she so racked with guilt (to the point of seeing a priest) if > her role was as innocent as she made it seem? If Mark initiated the whole > thing, and she rejected him, why would she feel such guilt? Was it simply > because she did not initially resist and kissed him back?

Your wife kissing another man is innocent to you?  I’d be petrified if anyone ever tried to kiss me, and I’d be fiercely embarassed.  In fact, when Doug and I were first living together, another man accosted me at work and kissed me.. I shoved him off, but it still felt *INCREDIBLY* difficult to tell Doug.. I was afraid he’d think it was my fault, and not believe me, and hate me forever, and I was petrified – and I had *NO* part in this… didn’t kiss back, and shoved the guy off and smacked him. > Second, and most importantly, she stated that she was worried that HE would > say something to me or to his girlfriend and that "He kept his word to > forget about it, so I kept mine".  Why would she worry that he would let the > cat out of the bag? If he initiated the pass, why on earth would he tell me > or his girlfriend about it? And, why would she feel obligated to do the > same?

See above.  Are you a jealous person?  Would you have possibly reacted very badly?  Do you have a temper?  Could she have been afraid of what might have been your reaction? > She swore to me, very convincingly, that the incident never got more > physical than just the kiss. I do believe her, but because of the > inconsistencies mentioned above I can’t help feeling like I don’t have the > whole story. Please tell me what you think.

I didn’t see any inconsistencies at all… I did see you possibly overanalyzing her reaction to the situation.  Has she ever given you a reason to disbelieve her?  Do you trust her?  If you asked her to never keep anything from you again, would she agree? Tamara

Response:

About five years my wife, kids and I were very involved in little league baseball. We all really liked the coach ,Mark. He was a very talented athlete, was great with the kids and was a lot of fun to talk to.  After about a year we became friends outside of baseball and would occasionally get together socially with him and his girlfriend. Mark would occasionally ask me to create business documents for him since he did not have a computer. Normally he would drop by our house in the evening to work with me in creating these documents. A couple of times he came over during the day when I was at work and asked my wife to print copies of something for him. He and his girlfriend had a very rocky relationship and he found it easy to talk to my wife about the problems they were having. This made me a bit uncomfortable at the time but I trusted my wife and, for the most part, trusted him also. One evening, he came by when we both were home. He was really upset that he and his girlfriend had had a major argument. He asked to speak with me alone. He said that he had told his girlfriend that she should be more like my wife in terms of cooking, cleaning and generally taking care of domestic business (because she is a slob). She accused him of having an affair with my wife and kicked him out of the house. Almost in tears, he said that he came by just to let me know that nothing had ever happened between him and my wife and that he considered me to be a good friend and would never do such a thing. He said that he did not want to lose our friendship over this and that he wanted to let me know about this argument before I found out through his girlfriend. I told him that, in fact, I was not really comfortable with him coming by when I was not at home but that I believed him and that I would let him know loud and clear if I ever felt that there was a problem. I continued to do favors for him occasionally and he would still drop by during the day once in a while. I eventually became more uncomfortable with the way he would confide in my wife about his problems. I told my wife I was not comfortable with their relationship anymore that I did not want him to come over during the day when I was not home. I don’t recall if it stopped immediately, but it did stop to the point that there was no contact at all outside of baseball. This was primarily due to a falling out we had with him over money that he owed to us and refused to repay. As time passed we discovered, through friends and personal experience, that he was a manipulator and had screwed over many former friends and business partners. We also found out that he has been arrested several times for domestic abuse. Mark eventually quite coaching and ended up marrying his girlfriend. Neither my wife nor I have had any real contact with him anymore, although my wife and his wife have become friends and talk on the phone once in a while. Last night my wife and I were discussing a TV documentary we had seen about marital infidelity. I asked, almost kiddingly, if in our 15 years of marriage, she had ever had an affair. I was shocked when she said "Well… not an affair, but something did happen with Mark". She told me that one day, several years ago, he had come over to the house to print something. She said that as he was leaving he kissed her. She said that he caught her off guard but that she did not resist and kissed him back. She then told him "I can’t do this. I am married and have three kids".  She said that he backed off and asked her not to say anything to me about it. He said, "If you tell your husband he will just blame you anyway because I know he trusts me." She said that she was shocked that he said this. She told me that they agreed it would be best to just forget that it ever happened. She told me that she was racked with guilt and wanted to tell me right away. She was afraid to tell me for all the obvious reasons but was also afraid that I would pull the kids off of the baseball team they loved so much. (I definitely would have too!) My oldest son really looked up to Mark. She did not want to jeopardize all that over a kiss. She also said that she was worried that Mark might eventually say something to me or to his girlfriend. She said, "Since we agreed to forget about it and he kept his word, I kept mine too." She said, right afterwards she went to confession for the first time in years and told the priest what had happened. The priest  told her that no serious sin had been committed but to "be careful". She decided to keep it to herself but vowed to herself to be honest with me if I ever came out and asked her directly. This is why she told me about it last night. I was grateful for her honesty. I really do understand why she waited so long to come clean, although I wish she would have told me right away. I feel pretty foolish now because I know that I was still acting as a friend to Mark for a couple of years after this incident. I must have looked like an idiot to my wife given what she knew and what I was oblivious to. As I think about this more critically, I can’t get past a couple of things that seem strange about her story. First, why was she so racked with guilt (to the point of seeing a priest) if her role was as innocent as she made it seem? If Mark initiated the whole thing, and she rejected him, why would she feel such guilt? Was it simply because she did not initially resist and kissed him back? Second, and most importantly, she stated that she was worried that HE would say something to me or to his girlfriend and that "He kept his word to forget about it, so I kept mine".  Why would she worry that he would let the cat out of the bag? If he initiated the pass, why on earth would he tell me or his girlfriend about it? And, why would she feel obligated to do the same? She swore to me, very convincingly, that the incident never got more physical than just the kiss. I do believe her, but because of the inconsistencies mentioned above I can’t help feeling like I don’t have the whole story. Please tell me what you think.

Response:

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