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Kook Alert (was RE:Non-HIV effects of an HIV pos diagnosis)

Question:

: SOME OF THE NON-HIV EFFECTS OF AN HIV POSITIVE DIAGNOSIS : : 1) HIV positive patients have their problems analyzed and treated less : directly in the context of those problems. Instead, symptoms are looked : at : in the context of HIV infection. Consequently, their doctor’s HIV-colored : glasses may lead to different diagnoses and different treatments than : patients with the same exact conditions who are HIV antibody negative.

: You mean if I, being hiv +, present with purple lesions on my body, I : might be treated for KS instead of being treated for a simple bruise. Straw man argument alert! I was talking about a person with an HIV diagnosis, while you are talking about a person with severe health problems, (KS). In your mind you automatically connect the two together. I don’t. One doesn’t have to be HIV pos. diagnosed to get KS, and one could be HIV positive diagnosed and not get anything. Unless of course he has a history of heavy use of popppers and other recreational drugs, perhaps followed by a history of AZT combo therapy prophylaxis. THEN his HIV positive diagnosis will be associated with and followed by his KS.  Or, : if I present with a sore throat I’ll be given fluconizole instead of : antibiotic. Or, if I’m going blind I’ll be given ganciclovir instead of a : new pair of glasses. More straw argument alert. These are not examples of the phenomenon to which I was referring. : 4) Unlike HIV negatives, HIV positive people are subject to the immune : depressing effects and toxicity of taking AZT and other various AIDS : drugs. As compared to Negatives, HIV Positives are more likely to have : their CD4s checked (which can terrorize them if they have *normally* low : (under 500) counts. If the CD4 count is tested immediately after first : getting the HIV positive diagnosis, the CD4 counts may fluctuate : downwards : even more and lead to the conclusion the PWHIV is seriously immune : depressed (rather than transiently so as result of learning the : diagnosis.) This causes further likelihood of pressure to take : immunosuppressive AZT combination therapy and PCP prophylaxis. : Well, I know when I first learned of my hiv+ status I wanted to test, and : confront, and challenge the disease at every opportunity. Now one can’t : really do that sticking his head in the sand. I had friends that did try : the denial route. They didn’t die happy. They died bitter because they : never prepared themselves for what they had to face. They never had a : choice because they had slept through the time to make them. This does not answer at all to my point that people are terrorized with initial HIV diagnoses and their CD4 counts are probably often catching that terror in the form of the low CD4 counts. Now if you don’t want to stay on the subject that’s fine with me but don’t pretend otherwise or try to distract me onto some tangent. : 5) Unlike HIV negatives, those with HIV antibody diagnoses potentially : suffer years of fear, stress, and declining health caused by the HIV : diagnosis itself (the very real "voodoo effect"). They may adopt a : sickness or death mentality, if only because their HIV status is so often : a topic of discussion. They will likely associate with others with a : similar diagnosis and mentality. They are subject to ongoing ostracism, : loss of jobs, disturbed relationships, etc. : Many "lose it" when faced with a health challenge. What if they are "challenged" with something that isn’t harmful but becomes harmful because they and most everyone else has been made to believe its harmful. To those people I am writing. To true believers like you who want to believe that HIV is harmful, it probably will be, and I wouldn’t want to disuade you of that. Feel free to build up your immunity with immune suppressive chemotherapy, be my guest. : 6) HIV positives may experience never-ending fear, disillusionment, : and/or : depression, possibly acting it out with increasingly self-destructive : risk : behavior because of the belief they have that HIV will invariably lead to : AIDS and "AIDS is invariably fatal". : People do this in the face of relationship failure, job failure, car : failure (in LA), and many other health failures…so…! These are real factors, while HIV is harmless. It is tragic that HIV positives may experience never-ending fear, disillusionment, and/or depression, possibly acting it out with increasingly self-destructive behavior because of a belief that a harmless virus is harmful, a belief that then becomes harmful and therefore self-fulfilling. It is the height of denial that you cannot see the self-fulfilling nature of the belief. It is tragic that people like you need to pressure others into sharing your denial and establishment-sanctioned blindness. Let those who want to see, see, and learn all they can about focusing on building up health directly through natural methods and the elimination of health damaging behavior. Californ

Response:

[...] 1) HIV positive patients have their problems analyzed and treated less directly in the context of those problems. Instead, symptoms are looked at in the context of HIV infection. Consequently, their doctor’s HIV-colored glasses may lead to different diagnoses and different treatments than patients with the same exact conditions who are HIV antibody negative.

Exactly, they may even get different surgery. Dr Holzman was quite interesting on the subject of the "HIV blinding" of doctors some time ago. The slightest trivial ailment is seen as the advance of the mythical "HIV disease". Attempts to impose deadly medication are redoubled, taking advantage of any temporary weakness in the patient’s resolve, according to survivors/refusers I have spoken to. The doctor has to be re-educated from day one to see these victims of the "HIV" myth as normal people. Considering how desperately our residents here shun the possibility of even meeting recovered "Aids" cases, it is easy to see how pervasive this superstition is throughout the medical profession.  John — "If somebody says you are antibody positive, just say, "Fine! That  protects me against anything the virus can do to me." That would  be my reaction."      Prof. Duesberg to John Lauritsen, quoted in The AIDS War

Response:

They are also immediately subject to the non-HIV effects of an HIV positive diagnosis. See below for my list of such effects. SOME OF THE NON-HIV EFFECTS OF AN HIV POSITIVE DIAGNOSIS 1) HIV positive patients have their problems analyzed and treated less directly in the context of those problems. Instead, symptoms are looked at in the context of HIV infection. Consequently, their doctor’s HIV-colored glasses may lead to different diagnoses and different treatments than patients with the same exact conditions who are HIV antibody negative.

You mean if I, being hiv +, present with purple lesions on my body, I might be treated for KS instead of being treated for a simple bruise. Or, if I present with a sore throat I’ll be given fluconizole instead of antibiotic. Or, if I’m going blind I’ll be given ganciclovir instead of a new pair of glasses. 2) HIV positive people are subject to a more negative treatment experience for the same conditions which HIV negative people have. Many doctors will not treat HIV positive people.

Many doctors will not treat medicare, the terribly poor, the terribly sick or the terribly ugly; and I ask, who could blame them? 3) Cases have been seen of people with HIV getting inferior treatments ("because they are going to die anyway"). This is especially pronounced in third world cases.

Many cases have been seen, and horror stories reported, and scandals revealed, and abuses uncovered…your point? 4) Unlike HIV negatives, HIV positive people are subject to the immune depressing effects and toxicity of taking AZT and other various AIDS drugs. As compared to Negatives, HIV Positives are more likely to have their CD4s checked (which can terrorize them if they have *normally* low (under 500) counts. If the CD4 count is tested immediately after first getting the HIV positive diagnosis, the CD4 counts may fluctuate downwards even more and lead to the conclusion the PWHIV is seriously immune depressed (rather than transiently so as result of learning the diagnosis.) This causes further likelihood of pressure to take immunosuppressive AZT combination therapy and PCP prophylaxis.

Well, I know when I first learned of my hiv+ status I wanted to test, and confront, and challenge the disease at every opportunity. Now one can’t really do that sticking his head in the sand. I had friends that did try the denial route. They didn’t die happy. They died bitter because they never prepared themselves for what they had to face. They never had a choice because they had slept through the time to make them. 5) Unlike HIV negatives, those with HIV antibody diagnoses potentially suffer years of fear, stress, and declining health caused by the HIV diagnosis itself (the very real "voodoo effect"). They may adopt a sickness or death mentality, if only because their HIV status is so often a topic of discussion. They will likely associate with others with a similar diagnosis and mentality. They are subject to ongoing ostracism, loss of jobs, disturbed relationships, etc.

Many "lose it" when faced with a health challenge. Those who deny, will deny. Those who fight, will fight. Whiners will whine whether they are hiv+ or not. And apparently, those who know so very little will continue to preach, endlessly. 6) HIV positives may experience never-ending fear, disillusionment, and/or depression, possibly acting it out with increasingly self-destructive risk behavior because of the belief they have that HIV will invariably lead to AIDS and "AIDS is invariably fatal".

People do this in the face of relationship failure, job failure, car failure (in LA), and many other health failures…so…! In any or all of these ways, and others ways I have not discovered yet, the HIV positive diagnosis itself is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Oh bullshit, and a big {EDIT} to the rest of this… What you describe could be applied to an arthritis diagnosis or any chronic pain syndrome.You describe the human condition (the dark, negative side of it) and attempt to blame the knowledge of hiv status for it. TILT Cameron Snyder Browse my Butt Page and see the World http://members.aol.com/B4Uask/buttpage.htm

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