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Salmon & Headwaters NMFS alert April 25 deadline

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Don Baccus: There is one lesson learned from the Federal approach to salmon recovery.  The Federal approach "provides hundreds of good jobs for scientists, engineers and government workers" (Spoksman Review).  With this type of salmon recovery you should not expect much response from salmon. The state plan is being crafted by scientists, engineers, and (state) government workers, so what’s your point?   Nature photos, on-line guides, at (NEW) http://donb.photo.net

Simply, the point is 3 billion dollars have been spent and there are no recovered salmon.  The missing factor is a requirement that recovery plans have significant measurable benefit to salmon — not bureaucracy. Mark, from the land of the Mighty Columbia!!

Response:

For the exact reason that logging (and associated jobs) will be stopped, I will NOT write. How about looking for ways for industry and environment to co-exist…unless your willing to tell that working man that some stupid fish is the reason he can’t buy his kids food and clothing.

The lack of that particular stupid fish is why many commercial fishermen on the west coast can’t buy his kids food and clothing anymore. Oh, I forgot, commercial fishermen don’t really work, only loggers really work. —   Nature photos, on-line guides, at (NEW) http://donb.photo.net

Response:

The only requirement is that recovery tactics change from a passive approach (leave it alone) to an active approach that pursues proven recovery techniques that actually benefit salmon.

Which is why listing would’ve been preferable.  It is obvious the timber industry is going to fight one active approach which will reduce degradation of habitat that is now in good shape: modification to Oregon’s forest practices law and administration thereof. "leave it alone" is the best approach for habitat which isn’t already trashed.  Obviously, implementing recovery techniques, i.e. improving instream conditions where streams have been trashed and the like, is also important. —   Nature photos, on-line guides, at (NEW) http://donb.photo.net

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only requirement is that recovery tactics change from a passive approach (leave it alone) to an active approach that pursues proven recovery techniques that actually benefit salmon. Which is why listing would’ve been preferable.  It is obvious the timber industry is going to fight one active approach which will reduce degradation of habitat that is now in good shape: modification to Oregon’s forest practices law and administration thereof. "leave it alone" is the best approach for habitat which isn’t already trashed.  Obviously, implementing recovery techniques, i.e. improving instream conditions where streams have been trashed and the like, is also important.   Nature photos, on-line guides, at (NEW) http://donb.photo.net

Dear Don Baccus: There is one lesson learned from the Federal approach to salmon recovery.  The Federal approach "provides hundreds of good jobs for scientists, engineers and government workers" (Spoksman Review).  With this type of salmon recovery you should not expect much response from salmon. Mark, from the land of the Mighty Columbia!!

Response:

Salmon recovery methods have been followed and proven many times over the last 100 years.  Could you please take a positive approach to solve a problem rather than a negative power play approach. The National Marine Fisheries Service has until April 25 to list the Coho Salmon in northern California, Oregon, and Washington for protection as an endangered species. A federal listing could force Pacific Lumber to halt all logging in Headwaters Forest. Call/e-mail/fax/write NMFS. Demand that the Coho be given the strongest possible protections.

I would be interested  to know about these recoveries that you alude to without giving any specifics. Where have these recoveries taken place, which species are they, what are the specific methods, and what are the population figures? The subject of the message you responded to was Coho Salmon, whose population has plummeted by 99% in the last 100-some years. Can you please explain to me how a 99% drop in population can be called a recovery? The message you responded to was a call for people to demand that NMFS begin the process of recovery. Can you please explain to me what is positive about telling people to refrain from taking the first step necessary for recovery to happen? 4432 Telegraph #51, Oakland CA 94609 USA

Response:

Dear Don Baccus: There is one lesson learned from the Federal approach to salmon recovery.  The Federal approach "provides hundreds of good jobs for scientists, engineers and government workers" (Spoksman Review).  With this type of salmon recovery you should not expect much response from salmon.

The state plan is being crafted by scientists, engineers, and (state) government workers, so what’s your point? Are you suggesting we’ll do a better job of managing salmon if we leave fisheries scientists out of the picture?  That’s what the timber industry wants.  They insist that timber industry CEOs know more about fisheries science than fisheries scientists, because they claim they *know* that cutting right down to the stream and driving bulldozers through them doesn’t harm instream habitat. Are you suggesting that we not employ engineers to design erosion control structures and other things that state law currently requires be designed by a licensed PE? —   Nature photos, on-line guides, at (NEW) http://donb.photo.net

Response:

The National Marine Fisheries Service has until April 25 to list the Coho Salmon in northern California, Oregon, and Washington for protection as an endangered species. A federal listing could force Pacific Lumber to halt all logging in Headwaters Forest. Call/e-mail/fax/write NMFS. Demand that the Coho be given the strongest possible protections. For the exact reason that logging (and associated jobs) will be stopped, I will NOT write. How about looking for ways for industry and environment to co-exist…unless your willing to tell that working man that some stupid fish is the reason he can’t buy his kids food and clothing. Expletive self censored by author.

Okay, I’ll tell some lumber jack he can’t work because of some stupid fish, and you tell the fisherman he can’t work because of some stupid lumber jack.   According to all the pro lumber literature there is more than enough lumber growing to rplace what has been taken, Why do they then need ot cut in the Headwaters Forest? — Sorry, but spam has made me make you  Put the b in the right place for e-mail responses.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The National Marine Fisheries Service has until April 25 to list the Coho Salmon in northern California, Oregon, and Washington for protection as an endangered species. A federal listing could force Pacific Lumber to halt all logging in Headwaters Forest. Call/e-mail/fax/write NMFS. Demand that the Coho be given the strongest possible protections. For the exact reason that logging (and associated jobs) will be stopped, I will NOT write. How about looking for ways for industry and environment to co-exist…unless your willing to tell that working man that some stupid fish is the reason he can’t buy his kids food and clothing. Expletive self censored by author. Okay, I’ll tell some lumber jack he can’t work because of some stupid fish, and you tell the fisherman he can’t work because of some stupid lumber jack. According to all the pro lumber literature there is more than enough lumber growing to rplace what has been taken, Why do they then need ot cut in the Headwaters Forest?

Good news Todd both the fisherman and the logger can keep at what they do best. The only requirement is that recovery tactics change from a passive approach (leave it alone) to an active approach that pursues proven recovery techniques that actually benefit salmon. Mark, from the land of the Mighty Columbia!!

Response:

The National Marine Fisheries Service has until April 25 to list the Coho Salmon in northern California, Oregon, and Washington for protection as an endangered species. A federal listing could force Pacific Lumber to halt all logging in Headwaters Forest. Call/e-mail/fax/write NMFS. Demand that the Coho be given the strongest possible protections. For the exact reason that logging (and associated jobs) will be stopped, I will NOT write. How about looking for ways for industry and environment to co-exist…unless your willing to tell that working man that some stupid fish is the reason he can’t buy his kids food and clothing.

May I suggest you inform yourself on the subject. The Salmon fishery once provided 10,000 jobs. Pacific Lumber employs 1600 people. The main reasons wood industry workers are being laid off are corporate decisions to increase automation and shift milling overseas. Pacific Lumber managed the forest more or less sustainably for almost a century when it was a family-run local company. It was Maxxam’s hostile junk-bond take-over and wreckless jacking up of the cut to double or triple the sustainable rate that triggered a groundswell of public outrage. Cutting over the sustainable rate is cutting yourself or your children out of a job. Salmon may be pivotal to the health of the ecosystem in the long run, closing a great loop by bringing nutrients from the sea, without which the land’s vitality might steadily decline as the rains wash nutrients downstream. The wealth of Redwood land may be due to the work of Salmon.  In other words, loggers may ultimately owe their jobs to Salmon. Studies show that in general, good environmental regulation correlates with a stronger economy, while lax environmental regulation correlates with a weaker economy and fewer jobs. Coexistence is precisely what those of us who value life are working for. Coexistence is the exact opposite of annihilating your neighbor off the face of the Earth. I invite you to join those of us working to make coexistence possible by acting to protect Salmon from total annihilation. Call or email NMFS and tell them to recognize the simple truth: Coho Salmon are endangered. William Hogarth Southwest Regional Director (for California) National Marine Fisheries Service 501 W. Ocean Blvd., Suite 4200 Long Beach, CA 90802-4213 phone 310-980-4020, fax 310-980-4047 Will Stelle Northwest Regional Director (for Oregon & Washington) National Marine Fisheries Service 7600 Sand Point Way NE Seattle WA 98115 For more info, contact: Bay Area Coalition for Headwaters 510-835-6303 24-hour hotline recording;  510-548-2220 office; http://www.igc.apc.org/headwaters [web site hasnt been updated in a while] Environmental Protection Information Center http://www.humnat.org/epic/ Bay Area Action Headwaters organizations web links: http://www.impactonline.org/baa/rallycry/contacts/links.html Mendocino Environmental Center 707-468-1660 4432 Telegraph #51, Oakland CA 94609 USA

Response:

Dear Walter Epp: Your below post is at the heart of the failure to recover salmon.  It is clear that your concern is not for salmon but for the halt of economic activity.  Unfortunately that is the path of many misled ESA advocates and the reason for salmon recovery failure.   Salmon recovery methods have been followed and proven many times over the last 100 years.  Could you please take a positive approach to solve a problem rather than a negative power play approach. Mark, from the land of the Mighty Columbia!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The National Marine Fisheries Service has until April 25 to list the Coho Salmon in northern California, Oregon, and Washington for protection as an endangered species. A federal listing could force Pacific Lumber to halt all logging in Headwaters Forest. Call/e-mail/fax/write NMFS. Demand that the Coho be given the strongest possible protections.

Response:

The National Marine Fisheries Service has until April 25 to list the Coho Salmon in northern California, Oregon, and Washington for protection as an endangered species. A federal listing could force Pacific Lumber to halt all logging in Headwaters Forest. Call/e-mail/fax/write NMFS. Demand that the Coho be given the strongest possible protections. Hilda Diaz-Soltero Southwest Regional Director (for California) National Marine Fisheries Service 501 W. Ocean Blvd., Suite 4200 Long Beach, CA 90802-4213 phone 310-980-4020, fax 310-980-4047 Will Stelle Northwest Regional Director (for Oregon & Washington) National Marine Fisheries Service 7600 Sand Point Way NE Seattle WA 98115 For more info, contact: Bay Area Coalition for Headwaters 510-835-6303 24-hour hotline recording;  510-548-2220 office; http://www.igc.apc.org/headwaters Environmental Protection Information Center http://www.humnat.org/epic/ Bay Area Action Headwaters organizations web links: http://www.impactonline.org/baa/rallycry/contacts/links.html Mendocino Environmental Center 707-468-1660 4432 Telegraph #51, Oakland CA 94609 USA

Response:

The National Marine Fisheries Service has until April 25 to list the Coho Salmon in northern California, Oregon, and Washington for protection as an endangered species. A federal listing could force Pacific Lumber to halt all logging in Headwaters Forest. Call/e-mail/fax/write NMFS. Demand that the Coho be given the strongest possible protections.

For the exact reason that logging (and associated jobs) will be stopped, I will NOT write. How about looking for ways for industry and environment to co-exist…unless your willing to tell that working man that some stupid fish is the reason he can’t buy his kids food and clothing. Expletive self censored by author.

Response:

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