Ok, If a friend who owns a plane but recently lost his medical due to temporary medical issues and I am rated for the plane, but I do not at anytime take the controls. You are saying that nobody can log this PIC time.
I hope he’s not saying that. "A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person – Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated" If the friend has a private pilot certificate that says "Airplane, single Engine Land" on the back, and is manipulating the controls of a single engine airplane, he may log PIC time. On the other hand, the same provision says that you, as the current and rated pilot who is acting as pilot in command can’t log anything. Period. This is old stuff. Consistent FAA legal interpretations on this go back almost 25 years. Bottom line is that the FAA chose to use two similar-sounding concepts, "log PIC time" and "act as PIC" to signify completely different concepts. One deals with what someone gets to count toward currency, certificates, and ratings. The other deals with responsibility for a flight. "Acting as PIC" standing by itself, is never, sufficient for logging PIC and vice versa. Keep them separate and all the intricate logging rules actually make sense. Maybe the FAA should have used different terms altogether. But it didn’t.
I think first of all we need to restate that being PIC has, nothing, nothing, nothing to do with logging PIC in most cases. A pilot
I often wonder what the person who wrote those rules was smoking at the time. So much of the confusion could have been avoided simply by using different terms for logging PIC and acting PIC. Just call the column in the logbook X and say that you may log X time if you are the sole manipulator of the controls or giving instruction or whatever. Oh well, too late now. Borislav
| | Ok, If a friend who owns a plane but recently lost his medical due to | temporary medical issues and I am rated for the plane, but I do not at | anytime take the controls. You are saying that nobody can log this PIC | time. | Not at all. Your friend may log PIC and you are acting as PIC but may not log it as such.
An example of SIC time is an overwater flight when assistance with navigation and operating the aircraft is a requirement.
I’ve never heard of that in this context — Part 91 small aircraft GA flying. Could you please cite your reference? Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)
Mark Kolber wrote Maybe the FAA should have used different terms altogether. But it didn’t.
The US Navy saw fit to do so. The PIC always logged "Aircraft Commander" for the entire flight. The pilot manipulating the controls (pilot) logged "First Pilot". The assisting pilot (copilot) logged "Second Pilot". Bob Moore
Could you please cite your reference?
I like Robert’s phraseology better. :-) George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.
| An example of SIC time is an overwater flight when assistance with | navigation and operating the aircraft is a requirement. The explanation | given in this post by Mr. Campbell is totally accurate – the requirement for | more than one pilot by type or regulation can be extended legitimately to | that of certain flight types where the use of a SIC is beneficial, and the | pilot in command can determine that. | Where did I say that?
Hi All, I have a question about logging time. If I sit in the right seat in a friend’s plane on a cross-country and do all the the radio work, help with navigation and take the controls from time to time (briefly)…can I log that time? I understand that I cannot log the PIC…
You can log anything you want. What you probably want to ask is if you can use the logged time towards certificates. You don’t say if you are a pilot. If you are rated to fly the plane, you can probably log the time spent as sole manipulator of the controls as PIC. I just want to know if I can log this toward my total time.
Most would say no, not unless it’s PIC time. If you just want to inflate your logbook, go ahead, it’s legal, but don’t use it for ratings. Make a column called "sitting in an airplane and watching someone else fly" or whatever you like. Is there a section of the FARs that addresses this?
FAR 61.51 Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Todd Pattist (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) ___ Make a commitment to learn something from every flight. Share what you learn.
I should be more clear about this: you may log training time, solo time, and PIC time as flight time. The rest is not really flight time, nor may you log, for example, a cross country when not logging one of the above times
You may log second-in-command time when acting as second-in-command of an aircraft which requires more than one pilot, either by type certification or flight regulation. That is really flight time, and you may log, for example, a cross country when logging it. — Paul Baechler
| | I should be more clear about this: you may log training time, solo time, and | PIC time as flight time. The rest is not really flight time, nor may you | log, for example, a cross country when not logging one of the above times | | You may log second-in-command time when acting as second-in-command of | an aircraft which requires more than one pilot, either by type | certification or flight regulation. That is really flight time, and you | may log, for example, a cross country when logging it. Correct, but get a load of this! (From the part 61 FAQ): QUESTION: I have two instrument students who wish to build time to credit for the 50 hours of cross-country PIC time required for the instrument and commercial certificates. They intend to fly cross-country flights together, trading off legs with one flying as safety pilot and the other manipulating the controls while under the hood. I’ve counseled them that the safety pilot may log the time as PIC only for the duration the manipulating pilot was under the hood and can not count the flight as cross-country towards the instrument and commercial rating requirements. Is it acceptable for the safety pilot PIC time to count towards these specific cross-country requirements? ANSWER: Ref.
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- post-solo logging with rated pilot