Act Acting » Acting School » Any advice appreciated

Any advice appreciated

Question:

In a previous article, "Caroline" <carol…@email.net> said: <But, does this mean (and let’s go back to the original post) that the Mom in <this case can feel free to step over the agreement and do whatever she <wants? Or, do you think the right way to do this is to first discuss with <the BF to have maybe more time with THEIR kids? <All this and we haven’t talked about SMoms yet, Are those people humans <beings or what? Do they have a life or what? If the BM feels free to stop by <any moment she likes, well, forgive me for I don’t see how a frustrated SM <can take care of your lovely son. <Houses and people have their privacy too, and it needs to be respected, <mutual respect between people is essential to keep on a good communication <for the benefit of the children and all others. OK, are we talking about a mom going to the school to get more time with her kids, outside of her scheduled time?  I realize that the OP has made it clear that she was not volunteering her time in the classroom, she was just hanging, and the school didn’t like it.  OK, that’s different, but let’s say, for the sake of discussion, that she cleans up that act and makes arrangements with the teacher to be there three afternoons a week, volunteering like a lot of parents do.  Why should she discuss that with the father?  Does he have power to say "No, you can’t volunteer, I forbid it"?  On what grounds?  Is the schedule there to give everyone a framework for planning, or is it there to make sure than no one gets *more* than their share?  It doesn’t take away from dad, and gives more time with mom.  Is this a bad thing? I’m not sure how this went from schools to houses, but I may be confused about which posts are in which threads.  I think also that no one comes into my house without an invitation, and that’s a totally different thing than a parent (of either sex) volunteering at school to get more time with their kids.  That’s just a winner all around. Vicki — Family and Divorce Mediation Resources http://xcski.com/~mediator/

Response:

"Caroline" <carol…@email.net> wrote : > > As you have said several times Vicki, we all need to stop focusing on > what’s > > good/convenient for the parents and focus on the child’s needs. > The child’s needs are to be living with BOTH parents at the same time, no > divorce no disagreements no separations, unfortunately, the cases discussed > in this NG are not that ideal.

I agree…. that would be best in most cases.  Since sometimes we have no choice in that matter (like mine…. I wanted to stay married, and work on our problems…. he was more in love with his girlfriend than his family).. then we have to look at what is best for the children in the situation we have. And that means children should have close, frequent contact with both parents.. And for those parents to not spend their days fighting each other, and not making the kids feel as if they have to choose who to side with.  JMO. Cal~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Caroline

Response:

"Vicki Robinson" <vjr…@xcski.com> wrote in message

news:a3bv33$457$1@allhats.xcski.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In a previous article, "Caroline" <carol…@email.net> said: > <But, does this mean (and let’s go back to the original post) that the Mom in > <this case can feel free to step over the agreement and do whatever she > <wants? Or, do you think the right way to do this is to first discuss with > <the BF to have maybe more time with THEIR kids? > <All this and we haven’t talked about SMoms yet, Are those people humans > <beings or what? Do they have a life or what? If the BM feels free to stop by > <any moment she likes, well, forgive me for I don’t see how a frustrated SM > <can take care of your lovely son. > <Houses and people have their privacy too, and it needs to be respected, > <mutual respect between people is essential to keep on a good communication > <for the benefit of the children and all others. > OK, are we talking about a mom going to the school to get more time > with her kids, outside of her scheduled time?  I realize that the OP > has made it clear that she was not volunteering her time in the > classroom, she was just hanging, and the school didn’t like it.  OK, > that’s different, but let’s say, for the sake of discussion, that she > cleans up that act and makes arrangements with the teacher to be there > three afternoons a week, volunteering like a lot of parents do.  Why > should she discuss that with the father?  Does he have power to say > "No, you can’t volunteer, I forbid it"?  On what grounds?  Is the > schedule there to give everyone a framework for planning, or is it > there to make sure than no one gets *more* than their share?  It > doesn’t take away from dad, and gives more time with mom.  Is this a > bad thing? > I’m not sure how this went from schools to houses, but I may be > confused about which posts are in which threads.  I think also that no > one comes into my house without an invitation, and that’s a totally > different thing than a parent (of either sex) volunteering at school > to get more time with their kids.  That’s just a winner all around. > Vicki

Vicki, You are one smart cookie:-)  Just had to say that.  I find myself saying yes, that’s it, that’s true whenever I read your posts, lol.  (Does that make me a smart cookie??? heheh) My divorce agreement actually has something in there about school activities, etc. Neither of us can (nor would want, for that matter) to restrict that kind of access for the other parent.  It does not impact the other parent’s time unless that other parent was planning on volunteering as well. If it should ever come about that we both wanted to chaperone a trip, well first off, hell would have had to freeze over <g> and then it would come down to who had custody.  And in truth, I wouldn’t have a problem with both of us chaperoning a trip, but I think it might be odd for the kids, as all their friends know we’re divorced, and they may find it weird. Cal~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Family and Divorce Mediation Resources > http://xcski.com/~mediator/

Response:

"ms_cal" <ms_c…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:tV168.9036$ks5.858638@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Amen, Amen, Amen!!!  This is exactly what I’m hoping will happen for my kids, once > my ex comes to his senses <g>  Some days they wish to see their dad, but it isn’t > his day…. so no go:-(   [by his choice, NOT mine] Once, my son wanted to talk to > dad, but said he didn’t think his dad wanted to be ‘bothered by a call from me’… > It really broke my heart.  Thankfully Dad was still at work, so I was able to > email him, letting him know his son wanted to talk, etc.  Dad called, and they > talked for over an hour! > As you have said several times Vicki, we all need to stop focusing on what’s > good/convenient for the parents and focus on the child’s needs.

The child’s needs are to be living with BOTH parents at the same time, no divorce no disagreements no separations, unfortunately, the cases discussed in this NG are not that ideal. Caroline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cal~ > > — > > Family and Divorce Mediation Resources > > http://xcski.com/~mediator/

Response:

"Heather M." <heath…@ipa.net> wrote in message

news:jwM58.6602$By6.776502@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > Um, maybe I’m in the minority here.  I agree that BM trashing you and your > DH to no end to her children is spiteful, ugly, mean, and possibly damaging, > but I don’t see it as "abuse".  If the woman is spending a "to-the-extreme" > amount of time at her childrens’ school in order to be with them more, than > why on earth don’t you just let her have more time with her kids?????????

First of all, the BM did not ask for more time to spend with her kids, simply. Second, we already gave her much more time and we even alternated vacations and holidays so she can spend more uninterrupted time with her kids > Good Lord, I almost feel sorry for the BM.

Everybody is entitled to his own feelings, I second your opinion, for a different reason. > To be restricted from your kids,

She is not "restricted" from her kids. > and made to adere to a "schedule" in order to see them…

Heather, maybe you believe that not everybody have the same understanding you and your ex have, someone who says she’ll be picking up the kids at noon and doesn’t show up or call till 5pm a zillion times, cannot be treated like someone who is there on time for example. A "schedule" is by all means the best solution… I just don’t > understand why that would be unless she was abusive in some way towards them > and required supervised visitation.  There are alot of Dads out there, I > know, who are NCP and have to live like that as well.  What a shame for any > parent, of either sex, to have to let someone set a "schedule" of when they > are allowed to parent their children.

Maybe Heather you’re a much decent person who loves and takes care of her kids. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Heather > "Caroline" <carol…@email.net> wrote in message > news:JA%48.37730$e21.3061547240@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com… > > "Barbara Sandy" <bsa…@wi.rr.com> wrote in message > > news:C2%48.326562$8w3.75616155@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > > This I agree with she should not be just hanging out in school with the > > > kids..school is a part of kids development in terms of becoming > > > independant..she’s really treading on a fine line there! > > My husband and I talked to the principal at school, that the BM should not > > be allowed in school outside regular normal visits or events. The > principal > > will talk her, we’ll let the school deal with it first since schools have > > policies to enforce too. It’s good to be coming from a third party, not > just > > us all the time. > > > Again, I agree…divorce alone is cause to consider putting children and > > the > > > divorced parents in counciling…but add to it a BP that is so hell bent > > on > > > trashing the other BP and their SO….yipes, run, do not walk to the > > nearest > > > kiddy councilor…. > > Are they called Family councelors or what? > > Maybe at the same time we can get the idea of the BM living in our guest > > room normal kind of thing out the kids’ mind. > > > Here’s where we begin to differ — you are under no obligation to make > it > > > easier for this woman to brainwash the kids,,,but you are under an > > > obligation to keep a relationship between the kids and their mom!! > Taking > > > their time with her away would be a punishment to the children — they > > > obviously love their mom!  And, ultimately that would breed resentment > > > towards you and BF! > > We haven’t talked a single word with the BM yet. Of course we’re not going > > to restrict her time with them, but the time we have in the schedule, and > of > > course we should restrict her interference and visits to the school, this > is > > not her time nor it is appropriate for the kids to have a parent at their > > side all the time. This weekend the kids are with their mom, we’ll see > when > > they come back tomorrow how things will be. > > > Again agreed….but do not go to court with the intention of completely > > > taking those kids away from their mother!  Go with the intention of > seeing > > > that she gets help to deal with her issues!  She hasn’t abused them > > > physically and quite obviously doesn’t negelect them.  She just needs to > > > learn other ways of dealing with the divorce and re-marriage issue! She > > > probably doesn’t even think that she is doing anything to damage her > > > children.  And,I know that you have probably tried to tell her that what > > she > > > is doing isn’t good for them, but why would you expect her to listen to > > you > > > when she obviously isn’t dealing well with the situation that involves > > you? > > > The woman needs some counciling — or some time on this news group — > but > > > she deffinately does not deserve to have her children taken out of her > > life! > > How can you get this woman into councelling outside the court. I don’t > think > > she knows that there is something wrong with her in the first place. > > > If your suggestion of putting the kids in counciling was only to "make > the > > > custiodial parent look good", then I wonder if you couldn’t use some > > therapy > > > yourself??  I don’t mean that in a bad way, but you do seem pretty > > > resentful, judging from the mood of your post, and I don’t say that you > > > don’t have good reason to be,,,I just  say that living with a resentment > > > like that forever is a terrible thing to bare…talking to a councilor > can > > > put things back into perspective and maybe ease your spirit some. > > Ah, living in resentment, that was the past 3 weeks, it is not even > healthy > > for anybody. > > > Again, agreed….and also easier said than done.  Gotta put a really > thick > > > skin on, Caroline, and just suck it up…the only counter point that you > > can > > > use is "well, those may be the rules at Mommy’s but these are the rules > > > here."  no more discussion or elaboration on the issue…. > > Yeah, we’re doing this already, but still, not very successful. I feel > sorry > > for the kids that they are getting deprived of a joyful life, they had > been > > constantly deprived of their things lately. The past 2 days were not so > > dramatic though, since the teachers started helping. > > Thanks Barb, > > Caroline > > > <<Good luck. > > > Ditto  :-) > > > <Liz, BM of three > > > <http://yadablah.com > > > <I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. > > > Barb > > > — > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 – Release Date: 1/21/2002

Response:

"Mika" <tajmaha…@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:LB368.8992> together

on the visitation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"I" wrote: > >Good Lord, I almost feel sorry for the BM.  To be restricted from your > > kids, and made to adere to a "schedule" in order to see them…I just > don’t > >understand why that would be unless she was abusive in some way towards > > them and required supervised visitation.  There are alot of Dads out > there, I > >know, who are NCP and have to live like that as well.  What a shame for > > any parent, of either sex, to have to let someone set a "schedule" of when > > they are allowed to parent their children. "Mika" wrote: > Do you know the situation of the person who this post was about? If not, > maybe you should take a minute to find out. Trust me, it helps prevent foot > and mouth disease. You know the one, open mouth-insert foot.

Mika, I went by what she posted, and after re-reading what she posted for the umpteenth time, I stand by what I said.  As always, if you don’t want what you say on usenet to be dissected on into infinity and anaylyzed to the point of spontaneous combustion, then don’t say it.  Only let me add that it is a shame for the CHILD or CHILDREN that their other parent should be made to adhere to a schedule (all in fear of the divorce police, not for some reason like abuse or neglect) as if they were a child themselves.  The OP stated that this woman was not an abuser, and the most she did was pretty much badmouth the OP and her DH in front of her children.  Well, you can’t change the fact that she is the children’s mother, and just because you may not agree with her ways or way of life in general does not provide any excuse to limit time with her kids.  The woman gets 20% of custody, on weekends, and shows up at the school so she can see her kids more.  Why NOT find a way for this woman to see her children more?  Just so they don’t have to deal with the kids acting bratty when they come back from visiting her? Divorce is compromise, whether you wanna do it or not. Heather

Response:

Heather, you indeed are fortunate to have an ex who loves and cares for your child. So, visitation at your place is not an issue, count your blessings. You are a mom and love your child, and other moms also love their kids, it’s only NATURAL. Everybody wants what’s best for their kids. Like Vicki said, a schedule should at first be used as a guideline, afterall, a visitation schedule is MADE by BOTH parents, to accommodate the TIME of BOTH parents and of course the whole with the best  interest of the kids in mind. But, does this mean (and let’s go back to the original post) that the Mom in this case can feel free to step over the agreement and do whatever she wants? Or, do you think the right way to do this is to first discuss with the BF to have maybe more time with THEIR kids? Violating your agreement can only aggravate your relation and therefore affect and impact negatively on the kids, so, BM in this case LOVES her kids???? Misses them???? why doesn’t she come and talk about it???? We never said you are not allowed to see your kids, knowing that the schedule we made gave her much more time with the kids than she used to have before the schedule. Count your blessings that you can drop your kids whenever you like at your ex, and he can do the same, and good for you that your time seems to be very flexible, but also bare in mind that others might not necessarily have this same commodity and HAVE to operate by a schedule. All this and we haven’t talked about SMoms yet, Are those people humans beings or what? Do they have a life or what? If the BM feels free to stop by any moment she likes, well, forgive me for I don’t see how a frustrated SM can take care of your lovely son. Houses and people have their privacy too, and it needs to be respected, mutual respect between people is essential to keep on a good communication for the benefit of the children and all others. Again, Vicki, the very first reason schedules are originally made  is because people couldn’t agree on something and they were having trouble, second, it’s very good if those schedules can be followed as guidelines, but when you don’t have any agreement with the other person, you need to follow exactly and strictly the schedule you both made, not forgetting that the kids are human beings and their demands change with time, but again, whoever made the first schedule, can also do some changes to it that suits everybody. Caroline "Heather M." <heath…@ipa.net> wrote in message

news:a6e68.10342$By6.1186837@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mika" <tajmaha…@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:LB368.8992> together > on the visitation. > "I" wrote: > > >Good Lord, I almost feel sorry for the BM.  To be restricted from your > > > kids, and made to adere to a "schedule" in order to see them…I just > > don’t > > >understand why that would be unless she was abusive in some way towards > > > them and required supervised visitation.  There are alot of Dads out > > there, I > > >know, who are NCP and have to live like that as well.  What a shame for > > > any parent, of either sex, to have to let someone set a "schedule" of > when > > > they are allowed to parent their children. > "Mika" wrote: > > Do you know the situation of the person who this post was about? If not, > > maybe you should take a minute to find out. Trust me, it helps prevent > foot > > and mouth disease. You know the one, open mouth-insert foot. > Mika, I went by what she posted, and after re-reading what she posted for > the umpteenth time, I stand by what I said.  As always, if you don’t want > what you say on usenet to be dissected on into infinity and anaylyzed to the > point of spontaneous combustion, then don’t say it.  Only let me add that it > is a shame for the CHILD or CHILDREN that their other parent should be made > to adhere to a schedule (all in fear of the divorce police, not for some > reason like abuse or neglect) as if they were a child themselves.  The OP > stated that this woman was not an abuser, and the most she did was pretty > much badmouth the OP and her DH in front of her children.  Well, you can’t > change the fact that she is the children’s mother, and just because you may > not agree with her ways or way of life in general does not provide any > excuse to limit time with her kids.  The woman gets 20% of custody, on > weekends, and shows up at the school so she can see her kids more.  Why NOT > find a way for this woman to see her children more?  Just so they don’t have > to deal with the kids acting bratty when they come back from visiting her? > Divorce is compromise, whether you wanna do it or not. > Heather

Response:

"Vicki Robinson" <vjr…@xcski.com> wrote in message

news:a3a93s$t1$1@allhats.xcski.com… > And if a couple decides to do things differently, do the divorce > police show up and force them to do things "right"?

Yea, that’s what I don’t understand about all of this. > A schedule may exist.  That doesn’t mean that the couple can’t agree > between themselves to do whatever they want to do.  They can, and do, > all the time.

And the more they can agree, the more free and less-rigid access a child has to each parent.  The child is so innocent in all of this. Heather

Response:

"Heather M." <heath…@ipa.net> wrote in message

news:Qa368.9329$ks5.876455@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mika, I have a 5 year old son, and we were never married (my choice) and his > BF is still alive.  We have a court order concerning child support, but not > visitation.  My ex is by far not the best dad, but he loves his son VERY > much, and my son adores him.  We have no visitation schedule, because I make > sure that my son spends as much time with his Dad as he can, and his Dad > would never tell him no. Our son is back and forth between the two of us, > and we work together. He’s not into volunteering at school, but if he did I > would do cartwheels, because I believe, and studies have shown, that the > happiest children have access to both parents.  Especially when they are > feeling insecure, unloved, need to talk, or just want to be in that parent’s > presence.  I don’t like my ex.  We are complete opposites, and have > different morals and values.  But in no way would he ever lay a hand on our > son or abuse him in any way.  My child is innocent, and whether I like his > Dad or not, its my issue to deal with.  My child benefits GREATLY by having > as much contact with his Dad as he wants, and it makes him feel more secure, > which makes me happy.  Schedule Shmedule, I look at my kid and what he > needs, and he needs a close, loving relationship with his Dad whether I like > it or not.  We work together for our son, and our son needs us both, and we > make sure that either one of us is available (depending on who he is with) > to our son should he want to talk to/see one of us.  Do we fight?  Of > course, mainly over his lack of child support, but would I hurt my son by > restricting him from his dad just because I don’ t get any money or I think > he’s a little bizarre at times?  No.  If his Dad showed up at his school > saying that it was the only way he could see his kid that didn’t include > weekends, then I would get creative and come up with a way for them to be > with each other more during the week.

Heather, I commend you for giving your son a lot of access to his dad. He does need it and the older he gets he will need it even more. I hope you can keep things in perspective in the years to come, as you are now. I was in no way trying to attack you by asking the questions I asked. Nor was I trying to attack you with what I said about the schedule. You and Vicki both are correct in saying that parents should be able to decide on their own how they want to handle visitation. It seems that you and your ex can work together on the visitation. That is great. Unfortunately, many people can’t or won’t. Some people refuse to do anything other than what is court ordered. Some people refuse to even follow the court order and give the OP any access at all. Whether it’s out of fear or vindictiveness, it still happens. Sometimes a parent has to enforce a schedule to protect the kids. It just seemed that you were on the attack when you said: >Good Lord, I almost feel sorry for the BM.  To be restricted from your > kids, and made to adere to a "schedule" in order to see them…I just don’t >understand why that would be unless she was abusive in some way towards > them and required supervised visitation.  There are alot of Dads out there, I >know, who are NCP and have to live like that as well.  What a shame for > any parent, of either sex, to have to let someone set a "schedule" of when > they are allowed to parent their children.

Do you know the situation of the person who this post was about? If not, maybe you should take a minute to find out. Trust me, it helps prevent foot and mouth disease. You know the one, open mouth-insert foot. Mika – who just recovered from a case of F&MD

Response:

Mika, I have a 5 year old son, and we were never married (my choice) and his BF is still alive.  We have a court order concerning child support, but not visitation.  My ex is by far not the best dad, but he loves his son VERY much, and my son adores him.  We have no visitation schedule, because I make sure that my son spends as much time with his Dad as he can, and his Dad would never tell him no. Our son is back and forth between the two of us, and we work together. He’s not into volunteering at school, but if he did I would do cartwheels, because I believe, and studies have shown, that the happiest children have access to both parents.  Especially when they are feeling insecure, unloved, need to talk, or just want to be in that parent’s presence.  I don’t like my ex.  We are complete opposites, and have different morals and values.  But in no way would he ever lay a hand on our son or abuse him in any way.  My child is innocent, and whether I like his Dad or not, its my issue to deal with.  My child benefits GREATLY by having as much contact with his Dad as he wants, and it makes him feel more secure, which makes me happy.  Schedule Shmedule, I look at my kid and what he needs, and he needs a close, loving relationship with his Dad whether I like it or not.  We work together for our son, and our son needs us both, and we make sure that either one of us is available (depending on who he is with) to our son should he want to talk to/see one of us.  Do we fight?  Of course, mainly over his lack of child support, but would I hurt my son by restricting him from his dad just because I don’ t get any money or I think he’s a little bizarre at times?  No.  If his Dad showed up at his school saying that it was the only way he could see his kid that didn’t include weekends, then I would get creative and come up with a way for them to be with each other more during the week. Heather "Mika" <tajmaha…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:qv168.8942$ks5.851879@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Heather, I just have to ask. Do you have kids? Are you divorced? Is your > kids BF still alive? If the answer to all of these is YES, then surely you > have a court order called Dissolution of Marriage with a Parenting Agreement > that orders who has custody, how much child support is paid and what the > visitation *schedule* is, right? If you don’t have that, then something is > wrong. If you do have it then your post is way off base because someone, > most likely your ex, is being restricted and made to adhere to a schedule. > That also means that you are being restricted from seeing your kids and made > to adhere to a schedule. > Mika > "Heather M." <heath…@ipa.net> wrote in message > news:jwM58.6602$By6.776502@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > > Um, maybe I’m in the minority here.  I agree that BM trashing you and your > > DH to no end to her children is spiteful, ugly, mean, and possibly > damaging, > > but I don’t see it as "abuse".  If the woman is spending a > "to-the-extreme" > > amount of time at her childrens’ school in order to be with them more, > than > > why on earth don’t you just let her have more time with her kids????????? > > Good Lord, I almost feel sorry for the BM.  To be restricted from your > kids, > > and made to adere to a "schedule" in order to see them…I just don’t > > understand why that would be unless she was abusive in some way towards > them > > and required supervised visitation.  There are alot of Dads out there, I > > know, who are NCP and have to live like that as well.  What a shame for > any > > parent, of either sex, to have to let someone set a "schedule" of when > they > > are allowed to parent their children. > > Heather > > "Caroline" <carol…@email.net> wrote in message > > news:JA%48.37730$e21.3061547240@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com… > > > "Barbara Sandy" <bsa…@wi.rr.com> wrote in message > > > news:C2%48.326562$8w3.75616155@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > > > This I agree with she should not be just hanging out in school with > the > > > > kids..school is a part of kids development in terms of becoming > > > > independant..she’s really treading on a fine line there! > > > My husband and I talked to the principal at school, that the BM should > not > > > be allowed in school outside regular normal visits or events. The > > principal > > > will talk her, we’ll let the school deal with it first since schools > have > > > policies to enforce too. It’s good to be coming from a third party, not > > just > > > us all the time. > > > > Again, I agree…divorce alone is cause to consider putting children > and > > > the > > > > divorced parents in counciling…but add to it a BP that is so hell > bent > > > on > > > > trashing the other BP and their SO….yipes, run, do not walk to the > > > nearest > > > > kiddy councilor…. > > > Are they called Family councelors or what? > > > Maybe at the same time we can get the idea of the BM living in our guest > > > room normal kind of thing out the kids’ mind. > > > > Here’s where we begin to differ — you are under no obligation to make > > it > > > > easier for this woman to brainwash the kids,,,but you are under an > > > > obligation to keep a relationship between the kids and their mom!! > > Taking > > > > their time with her away would be a punishment to the children — they > > > > obviously love their mom!  And, ultimately that would breed resentment > > > > towards you and BF! > > > We haven’t talked a single word with the BM yet. Of course we’re not > going > > > to restrict her time with them, but the time we have in the schedule, > and > > of > > > course we should restrict her interference and visits to the school, > this > > is > > > not her time nor it is appropriate for the kids to have a parent at > their > > > side all the time. This weekend the kids are with their mom, we’ll see > > when > > > they come back tomorrow how things will be. > > > > Again agreed….but do not go to court with the intention of > completely > > > > taking those kids away from their mother!  Go with the intention of > > seeing > > > > that she gets help to deal with her issues!  She hasn’t abused them > > > > physically and quite obviously doesn’t negelect them.  She just needs > to > > > > learn other ways of dealing with the divorce and re-marriage issue! > She > > > > probably doesn’t even think that she is doing anything to damage her > > > > children.  And,I know that you have probably tried to tell her that > what > > > she > > > > is doing isn’t good for them, but why would you expect her to listen > to > > > you > > > > when she obviously isn’t dealing well with the situation that involves > > > you? > > > > The woman needs some counciling — or some time on this news group — > > but > > > > she deffinately does not deserve to have her children taken out of her > > > life! > > > How can you get this woman into councelling outside the court. I don’t > > think > > > she knows that there is something wrong with her in the first place. > > > > If your suggestion of putting the kids in counciling was only to "make > > the > > > > custiodial parent look good", then I wonder if you couldn’t use some > > > therapy > > > > yourself??  I don’t mean that in a bad way, but you do seem pretty > > > > resentful, judging from the mood of your post, and I don’t say that > you > > > > don’t have good reason to be,,,I just  say that living with a > resentment > > > > like that forever is a terrible thing to bare…talking to a councilor > > can > > > > put things back into perspective and maybe ease your spirit some. > > > Ah, living in resentment, that was the past 3 weeks, it is not even > > healthy > > > for anybody. > > > > Again, agreed….and also easier said than done.  Gotta put a really > > thick > > > > skin on, Caroline, and just suck it up…the only counter point that > you > > > can > > > > use is "well, those may be the rules at Mommy’s but these are the > rules > > > > here."  no more discussion or elaboration on the issue…. > > > Yeah, we’re doing this already, but still, not very successful. I feel > > sorry > > > for the kids that they are getting deprived of a joyful life, they had > > been > > > constantly deprived of their things lately. The past 2 days were not so > > > dramatic though, since the teachers started helping. > > > Thanks Barb, > > > Caroline > > > > <<Good luck. > > > > Ditto  :-) > > > > <Liz, BM of three > > > > <http://yadablah.com > > > > <I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. > > > > Barb > > > > — > > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > > Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 – Release Date: 1/21/2002

Response:

"Vicki Robinson" <vjr…@xcski.com> wrote in message

news:a3a93s$t1$1@allhats.xcski.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In a previous article, "Mika" <tajmaha…@hotmail.com> said: > <Heather, I just have to ask. Do you have kids? Are you divorced? Is your > <kids BF still alive? If the answer to all of these is YES, then surely you > <have a court order called Dissolution of Marriage with a Parenting Agreement > <that orders who has custody, how much child support is paid and what the > <visitation *schedule* is, right? If you don’t have that, then something is > <wrong. If you do have it then your post is way off base because someone, > <most likely your ex, is being restricted and made to adhere to a schedule. > <That also means that you are being restricted from seeing your kids and made > <to adhere to a schedule. > And if a couple decides to do things differently, do the divorce > police show up and force them to do things "right"? > A schedule may exist.  That doesn’t mean that the couple can’t agree > between themselves to do whatever they want to do.  They can, and do, > all the time.  I have no idea what my agreement says; my ex and I > trade weekends, ignore notification deadlines, and let the kids go > back and forth at will (one drives now).  No one has yet showed up at > the door, pointing at the agreement and trying to force us to follow > it. > The restrictions are only as real as you both agree that they are.  In > my mediation practice, I tell my clients to think of the "schedule" as > being a guideline, and as being the final arbiter if they can’t agree > between themselves.  They can always fall back on it, but if they want > to do things differently as their kids grow. they are free to do so. > Vicki

Amen, Amen, Amen!!!  This is exactly what I’m hoping will happen for my kids, once my ex comes to his senses <g>  Some days they wish to see their dad, but it isn’t his day…. so no go:-(   [by his choice, NOT mine] Once, my son wanted to talk to dad, but said he didn’t think his dad wanted to be ‘bothered by a call from me’… It really broke my heart.  Thankfully Dad was still at work, so I was able to email him, letting him know his son wanted to talk, etc.  Dad called, and they talked for over an hour! As you have said several times Vicki, we all need to stop focusing on what’s good/convenient for the parents and focus on the child’s needs. Cal~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Family and Divorce Mediation Resources > http://xcski.com/~mediator/

Response:

In a previous article, "Mika" <tajmaha…@hotmail.com> said: <Heather, I just have to ask. Do you have kids? Are you divorced? Is your <kids BF still alive? If the answer to all of these is YES, then surely you <have a court order called Dissolution of Marriage with a Parenting Agreement <that orders who has custody, how much child support is paid and what the <visitation *schedule* is, right? If you don’t have that, then something is <wrong. If you do have it then your post is way off base because someone, <most likely your ex, is being restricted and made to adhere to a schedule. <That also means that you are being restricted from seeing your kids and made <to adhere to a schedule. And if a couple decides to do things differently, do the divorce police show up and force them to do things "right"? A schedule may exist.  That doesn’t mean that the couple can’t agree between themselves to do whatever they want to do.  They can, and do, all the time.  I have no idea what my agreement says; my ex and I trade weekends, ignore notification deadlines, and let the kids go back and forth at will (one drives now).  No one has yet showed up at the door, pointing at the agreement and trying to force us to follow it. The restrictions are only as real as you both agree that they are.  In my mediation practice, I tell my clients to think of the "schedule" as being a guideline, and as being the final arbiter if they can’t agree between themselves.  They can always fall back on it, but if they want to do things differently as their kids grow. they are free to do so. Vicki — Family and Divorce Mediation Resources http://xcski.com/~mediator/

Response:

Heather, I just have to ask. Do you have kids? Are you divorced? Is your kids BF still alive? If the answer to all of these is YES, then surely you have a court order called Dissolution of Marriage with a Parenting Agreement that orders who has custody, how much child support is paid and what the visitation *schedule* is, right? If you don’t have that, then something is wrong. If you do have it then your post is way off base because someone, most likely your ex, is being restricted and made to adhere to a schedule. That also means that you are being restricted from seeing your kids and made to adhere to a schedule. Mika "Heather M." <heath…@ipa.net> wrote in message

news:jwM58.6602$By6.776502@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Um, maybe I’m in the minority here.  I agree that BM trashing you and your > DH to no end to her children is spiteful, ugly, mean, and possibly damaging, > but I don’t see it as "abuse".  If the woman is spending a "to-the-extreme" > amount of time at her childrens’ school in order to be with them more, than > why on earth don’t you just let her have more time with her kids????????? > Good Lord, I almost feel sorry for the BM.  To be restricted from your kids, > and made to adere to a "schedule" in order to see them…I just don’t > understand why that would be unless she was abusive in some way towards them > and required supervised visitation.  There are alot of Dads out there, I > know, who are NCP and have to live like that as well.  What a shame for any > parent, of either sex, to have to let someone set a "schedule" of when they > are allowed to parent their children. > Heather > "Caroline" <carol…@email.net> wrote in message > news:JA%48.37730$e21.3061547240@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com… > > "Barbara Sandy" <bsa…@wi.rr.com> wrote in message > > news:C2%48.326562$8w3.75616155@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > > This I agree with she should not be just hanging out in school with the > > > kids..school is a part of kids development in terms of becoming > > > independant..she’s really treading on a fine line there! > > My husband and I talked to the principal at school, that the BM should not > > be allowed in school outside regular normal visits or events. The > principal > > will talk her, we’ll let the school deal with it first since schools have > > policies to enforce too. It’s good to be coming from a third party, not > just > > us all the time. > > > Again, I agree…divorce alone is cause to consider putting children and > > the > > > divorced parents in counciling…but add to it a BP that is so hell bent > > on > > > trashing the other BP and their SO….yipes, run, do not walk to the > > nearest > > > kiddy councilor…. > > Are they called Family councelors or what? > > Maybe at the same time we can get the idea of the BM living in our guest > > room normal kind of thing out the kids’ mind. > > > Here’s where we begin to differ — you are under no obligation to make > it > > > easier for this woman to brainwash the kids,,,but you are under an > > > obligation to keep a relationship between the kids and their mom!! > Taking > > > their time with her away would be a punishment to the children — they > > > obviously love their mom!  And, ultimately that would breed resentment > > > towards you and BF! > > We haven’t talked a single word with the BM yet. Of course we’re not going > > to restrict her time with them, but the time we have in the schedule, and > of > > course we should restrict her interference and visits to the school, this > is > > not her time nor it is appropriate for the kids to have a parent at their > > side all the time. This weekend the kids are with their mom, we’ll see > when > > they come back tomorrow how things will be. > > > Again agreed….but do not go to court with the intention of completely > > > taking those kids away from their mother!  Go with the intention of > seeing > > > that she gets help to deal with her issues!  She hasn’t abused them > > > physically and quite obviously doesn’t negelect them.  She just needs to > > > learn other ways of dealing with the divorce and re-marriage issue! She > > > probably doesn’t even think that she is doing anything to damage her > > > children.  And,I know that you have probably tried to tell her that what > > she > > > is doing isn’t good for them, but why would you expect her to listen to > > you > > > when she obviously isn’t dealing well with the situation that involves > > you? > > > The woman needs some counciling — or some time on this news group — > but > > > she deffinately does not deserve to have her children taken out of her > > life! > > How can you get this woman into councelling outside the court. I don’t > think > > she knows that there is something wrong with her in the first place. > > > If your suggestion of putting the kids in counciling was only to "make > the > > > custiodial parent look good", then I wonder if you couldn’t use some > > therapy > > > yourself??  I don’t mean that in a bad way, but you do seem pretty > > > resentful, judging from the mood of your post, and I don’t say that you > > > don’t have good reason to be,,,I just  say that living with a resentment > > > like that forever is a terrible thing to bare…talking to a councilor > can > > > put things back into perspective and maybe ease your spirit some. > > Ah, living in resentment, that was the past 3 weeks, it is not even > healthy > > for anybody. > > > Again, agreed….and also easier said than done.  Gotta put a really > thick > > > skin on, Caroline, and just suck it up…the only counter point that you > > can > > > use is "well, those may be the rules at Mommy’s but these are the rules > > > here."  no more discussion or elaboration on the issue…. > > Yeah, we’re doing this already, but still, not very successful. I feel > sorry > > for the kids that they are getting deprived of a joyful life, they had > been > > constantly deprived of their things lately. The past 2 days were not so > > dramatic though, since the teachers started helping. > > Thanks Barb, > > Caroline > > > <<Good luck. > > > Ditto  :-) > > > <Liz, BM of three > > > <http://yadablah.com > > > <I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. > > > Barb > > > — > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 – Release Date: 1/21/2002

Response:

Um, maybe I’m in the minority here.  I agree that BM trashing you and your DH to no end to her children is spiteful, ugly, mean, and possibly damaging, but I don’t see it as "abuse".  If the woman is spending a "to-the-extreme" amount of time at her childrens’ school in order to be with them more, than why on earth don’t you just let her have more time with her kids????????? Good Lord, I almost feel sorry for the BM.  To be restricted from your kids, and made to adere to a "schedule" in order to see them…I just don’t understand why that would be unless she was abusive in some way towards them and required supervised visitation.  There are alot of Dads out there, I know, who are NCP and have to live like that as well.  What a shame for any parent, of either sex, to have to let someone set a "schedule" of when they are allowed to parent their children. Heather "Caroline" <carol…@email.net> wrote in message

news:JA%48.37730$e21.3061547240@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Barbara Sandy" <bsa…@wi.rr.com> wrote in message > news:C2%48.326562$8w3.75616155@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > > This I agree with she should not be just hanging out in school with the > > kids..school is a part of kids development in terms of becoming > > independant..she’s really treading on a fine line there! > My husband and I talked to the principal at school, that the BM should not > be allowed in school outside regular normal visits or events. The principal > will talk her, we’ll let the school deal with it first since schools have > policies to enforce too. It’s good to be coming from a third party, not just > us all the time. > > Again, I agree…divorce alone is cause to consider putting children and > the > > divorced parents in counciling…but add to it a BP that is so hell bent > on > > trashing the other BP and their SO….yipes, run, do not walk to the > nearest > > kiddy councilor…. > Are they called Family councelors or what? > Maybe at the same time we can get the idea of the BM living in our guest > room normal kind of thing out the kids’ mind. > > Here’s where we begin to differ — you are under no obligation to make it > > easier for this woman to brainwash the kids,,,but you are under an > > obligation to keep a relationship between the kids and their mom!! Taking > > their time with her away would be a punishment to the children — they > > obviously love their mom!  And, ultimately that would breed resentment > > towards you and BF! > We haven’t talked a single word with the BM yet. Of course we’re not going > to restrict her time with them, but the time we have in the schedule, and of > course we should restrict her interference and visits to the school, this is > not her time nor it is appropriate for the kids to have a parent at their > side all the time. This weekend the kids are with their mom, we’ll see when > they come back tomorrow how things will be. > > Again agreed….but do not go to court with the intention of completely > > taking those kids away from their mother!  Go with the intention of seeing > > that she gets help to deal with her issues!  She hasn’t abused them > > physically and quite obviously doesn’t negelect them.  She just needs to > > learn other ways of dealing with the divorce and re-marriage issue!  She > > probably doesn’t even think that she is doing anything to damage her > > children.  And,I know that you have probably tried to tell her that what > she > > is doing isn’t good for them, but why would you expect her to listen to > you > > when she obviously isn’t dealing well with the situation that involves > you? > > The woman needs some counciling — or some time on this news group — but > > she deffinately does not deserve to have her children taken out of her > life! > How can you get this woman into councelling outside the court. I don’t think > she knows that there is something wrong with her in the first place. > > If your suggestion of putting the kids in counciling was only to "make the > > custiodial parent look good", then I wonder if you couldn’t use some > therapy > > yourself??  I don’t mean that in a bad way, but you do seem pretty > > resentful, judging from the mood of your post, and I don’t say that you > > don’t have good reason to be,,,I just  say that living with a resentment > > like that forever is a terrible thing to bare…talking to a councilor can > > put things back into perspective and maybe ease your spirit some. > Ah, living in resentment, that was the past 3 weeks, it is not even healthy > for anybody. > > Again, agreed….and also easier said than done.  Gotta put a really thick > > skin on, Caroline, and just suck it up…the only counter point that you > can > > use is "well, those may be the rules at Mommy’s but these are the rules > > here."  no more discussion or elaboration on the issue…. > Yeah, we’re doing this already, but still, not very successful. I feel sorry > for the kids that they are getting deprived of a joyful life, they had been > constantly deprived of their things lately. The past 2 days were not so > dramatic though, since the teachers started helping. > Thanks Barb, > Caroline > > <<Good luck. > > Ditto  :-) > > <Liz, BM of three > > <http://yadablah.com > > <I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. > > Barb > > — > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 – Release Date: 1/21/2002

Response:

Caroline <carol…@email.net> wrote in message

news:yMj58.38463$3E.3354279118@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com… > "Merrie" <merri…@pacbell.net> wrote in message > news:W2j58.3287$_85.2383478002@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com… > Don’t tell me Merrie that what you understood from my post is the BM is by > all means "volunteering" at the school.

    Well it was  unclear to me what exactly she is doing there.  It just isn’t likely that a school would just let her hang around all day. > > How often do you or your husband volunteer at the school? > Not that often.

    I highly recommend it… > When truth was revealed at the school, even before conferences with the > teachers, teachers were already pissed off of a BM who comes and leaves > whenever she feels like without prior arrangements. Schools have policies > too you know.

    Right and it’s up to *them* to enforce them. > It is not for the teachers to exhibit preferences based on custody or > gender, it’s our duties to make sure the kids are in a normal environment, > and that our rights and arrangements are being respected.

    And I don’t think they do exhibit these types of preferences.  However, I do think there are real human emotions and reactions within the staff of a school and it’s their job to deal with, for lack of a better word, "flakiness."  I think the staff will deal with BM in an appropriate manner. They deal with all kinds. > If the BM while she has only 20% visitation time with the kids spends her > days at school with the kids, what does this percentage means anymore?

Custody time breakdown is not about how many hours of exposure should a kid have to their parent.  Custody time breakdown is about scheduling and what’s going to work out best for the kids.  Many a court makes the assumption that the best place for a kid is with his parents – and while they often decide a kid should spend more time with one  than the other – *it’s only in rare situations that they seek to limit a child’s exposure to their own parent.* It isn’t uncommon that divorced parents have agreements where if one parent cannot be with the child during their custody time, the other parent has first right of tending the child. A parent with supervised visitation only is just not that common.  Reserved for truly abusive parents.  Has BM been convicted of child abuse?  Does the school know?     Here’s the thing.  I have a similar background as yours.  I’m a custodial stepmom.  After a teacher conference during SS’s first year of school, I began to volunteer to help my SS with an issue.  The following year BM decided she wanted to volunteer also.  I saw – still do – the benefits of this arrangement.  In a way, school is an environment where BM is supervised.  Teacher will correct behavior directly.  And they did just that.  Which was waaaaay better than me or DH calling her up and telling her.  Plus, her interest in her children’s education is good for the kids. Also her involvement is good for *me.*  It eliminated my concerns of whether or not she knew about school events, received progress reports etc.  Clearly if she’s there three times a week, it’s her responsibility to get the dates straight, make conference appointments and such.  (This type of thing may not be a problem for you, but my SS’s BM had/has problems keeping things straight, and of course, she always blames someone else.  I used to think she was screwing things up intentionally – until the kids were older and the kids would deal directly with her and now, of course, everything that goes wrong is all the kids’ fault.) Merrie

Response:

"Merrie" <merri…@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:q5E58.40018$pE7.3644781765@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com… >     And I don’t think they do exhibit these types of preferences. However, > I do think there are real human emotions and reactions within the staff of a > school and it’s their job to deal with, for lack of a better word, > "flakiness."  I think the staff will deal with BM in an appropriate manner. > They deal with all kinds.

That’s exactly what just happened, the principal talked to the BM to limit her visits to school back to regular/normal visits and/or school events as it was before Christmas. Also, the SD8’s teacher had a conference with the BM yesterday and pointed out all the behavior change in her daughter. The BM called us last night to let us know that she also has concerns about her kids’ behavior and that she would like to meet with "me" to talk about those issues, stating to my DH how much she appeciate "me" in the kids’ life… Half an hour later, the SD8 came to us after talking to her Mom  to tell us that her Mom assured her that what we had told her last week about her misbehavior will get her suspended from school is all false and only to scare her out, and the SD8 asked us of course to not tell her Mom about this. So, go figure… DH and I spoke after that and I told him that this "talk" should be a trio talk not just the ex and me and this is what we’ll be telling her today or tomorrow. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Custody time breakdown is not about how many hours of exposure should a kid > have to their parent.  Custody time breakdown is about scheduling and what’s > going to work out best for the kids.  Many a court makes the assumption that > the best place for a kid is with his parents – and while they often decide a > kid should spend more time with one  than the other – *it’s only in rare > situations that they seek to limit a child’s exposure to their own parent.* > It isn’t uncommon that divorced parents have agreements where if one parent > cannot be with the child during their custody time, the other parent has > first right of tending the child. > A parent with supervised visitation only is just not that common. Reserved > for truly abusive parents.  Has BM been convicted of child abuse?  Does the > school know?

I previously said that my DH has full primary custody of all 3 kids, the Mom shares legal and has 20% visitation time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->     Here’s the thing.  I have a similar background as yours.  I’m a > custodial stepmom.  After a teacher conference during SS’s first year of > school, I began to volunteer to help my SS with an issue.  The following > year BM decided she wanted to volunteer also.  I saw – still do – the > benefits of this arrangement.  In a way, school is an environment where BM > is supervised.  Teacher will correct behavior directly.  And they did just > that.  Which was waaaaay better than me or DH calling her up and telling > her.  Plus, her interest in her children’s education is good for the kids. > Also her involvement is good for *me.*  It eliminated my concerns of whether > or not she knew about school events, received progress reports etc. Clearly > if she’s there three times a week, it’s her responsibility to get the dates > straight, make conference appointments and such.  (This type of thing may > not be a problem for you, but my SS’s BM had/has problems keeping things > straight, and of course, she always blames someone else.  I used to think > she was screwing things up intentionally – until the kids were older and the > kids would deal directly with her and now, of course, everything that goes > wrong is all the kids’ fault.)

The kids came back yesterday from a weekend spent at their Mom, they tried the attitude of last week, but DH and I were very clear on zero tolerance to misbehavior, disrespect… and we talked a bit about what was going on in a loving tone and what and where this will get them. After the talked they were pleased and I think we did good talking on those issues, even their behavior and tone started changing in the right direction. Hopefully it’ll continue this way. Thanks again, Caroline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Merrie

Response:

Well, I usually volunteer at the schools, and one of the things I’ve noticed is that it’s usually the same parents that are there volunteering and they end up doing a variety of jobs.  I see little wrong with her being there every day.  I’m sure she’s being productive.  It’s unlikely that the school would just let her hang around. How often do you or your husband volunteer at the school? I  think in general, schools are neutral places.  I’m not saying that principals, teachers and staffs don’t make judgments – but overall, they don’t exhibit preferences based on custody or gender. I also think that you can make arrangements with a family counselor to bring the kids.  The counselor can ask that BM bring the kids on occasion.  I would think, given her desire for involvement, that she would jump at the opportunity.  And I think you will be surprised at how the kids’ stories will change depending on who brought them in to the appointment.  It’s enlightening.  Just make sure you have a counselor that has experience in blended family situations. Merrie Caroline <carol…@email.net> wrote in message

news:mb_48.37692$ET1.3032132812@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com… Hi all, In brief, I’m the SM of 3 (2boys 6,9 and a girl they live with us since BF has the primary custody. I’ve been in the family more than a year now, and I worked out a good relationship with the kids despite all what the BM have done to keep them resentful. At first, the BM was picking up the kids every Saturday noon and return them the next day, Sunday evening to us. She also used to call them as often as she wanted and whenever she wanted as long as wanted. She used to come to our door to pick the kids and return them, mind you spending more than half an hour every time at the door and mind you the instructions she wants to give on how to deal with the kids… Things had gone out of limits with her and her behavior, she would call to talk to BF for hours and all allegedly in regards to the kids. Everytime the kids come back from a day and a half visit at her place to criticize the rules at our house and how their Dad is neglecting them by the mere fact that he got married again to a stranger. My husband and I had dealt with this over the months until it got out of hand, the kids will not listen to SM or Daddy or even to the Nanny, talk back to us whatever we say or do… Anyways, last summer we worked out a visitation schedule that gives the kids and Mom somehow more time together but on  a schedule which is for the BM to pick up the kids from school on Friday afternoons and return them to school on Monday mornings and we alternated breaks/ holidays/ vacations. In short, now she is spending more time with the kids which she always said she wanted to. Also we limited her calls to 3 times a week for half an hour call each. The problem we’re facing now is that last xmas/New Year break, the kids spent the whole time with BM, we saw them for few hours to give them their presents and to have dinner. Coming back to school, and back to live with us, the kids are kinda resentful, hateful, impolite… At first, I thought well, it’s only normal, we had seen this before, then again, after few days this will change which this time didn’t but got worse. BF and I addressed the issue and tried many different ways to no avail, school homeworks had gone very bad, and their performance! I thought this is only a temporary issue it’ll go back to normal. It didn’t, even the simplest thing at home the kids were taught to resent and have a very specific answer to it. It had been like this until last week, by chance, we found out that the BM is spending her days at the school with the kids, while asked by the principal she replied that it is her right and that we are not letting her see the kids or talk to them so she has to see them at school and spend some time with them. We had a conference last week with the kids’ teachers to find out that the BM had been constantly visiting the school without our knowledge, which had the kids on this consistent resentfulness of course being brainwashed every day. The more sad thing, is that this resentfulness found its way out of the house to the school, the kids are not listening to their teachers, and badmouthing their friends and make up stories that didn’t happen for their friends to feel sorry for them (Mom’s style of course) My question is, how do you deal with the kids under the circumstances, without telling them your Mom is and your Mom isn’t, since we always tell them to listen to their parents, the kids are listening to their mom, in their mind probably they are only doing the right thing they are asked to do. How to have the kids differentiate right from wrong at this age without intimidating the mom and regardless how defensive of her they are. Any ideas are very well appreciated. I omitted lot of details and still this wasn’t in brief afterall Caroline

Response:

"Merrie" <merri…@pacbell.net> wrote in message

news:W2j58.3287$_85.2383478002@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com… > Well, I usually volunteer at the schools, and one of the things I’ve noticed > is that it’s usually the same parents that are there volunteering and they > end up doing a variety of jobs.  I see little wrong with her being there > every day.  I’m sure she’s being productive.  It’s unlikely that the school > would just let her hang around.

If you read my original post again, I mentioned that the school was not ok with the BM hanging around all that time, but that the BM created some false accusations with some falsy rights what kept the principal quiet for a while… Don’t tell me Merrie that what you understood from my post is the BM is by all means "volunteering" at the school. > How often do you or your husband volunteer at the school?

Not that often. > I  think in general, schools are neutral places.  I’m not saying that > principals, teachers and staffs don’t make judgments – but overall, they > don’t exhibit preferences based on custody or gender.

When truth was revealed at the school, even before conferences with the teachers, teachers were already pissed off of a BM who comes and leaves whenever she feels like without prior arrangements. Schools have policies too you know. It is not for the teachers to exhibit preferences based on custody or gender, it’s our duties to make sure the kids are in a normal environment, and that our rights and arrangements are being respected. If the BM while she has only 20% visitation time with the kids spends her days at school with the kids, what does this percentage means anymore? If she wants to change the court decision, then this is by all means where she should be spending her time to fight us for more time with the kids. Homes have doors, coming from the window sounds very fishy. > I also think that you can make arrangements with a family counselor to bring > the kids.  The counselor can ask that BM bring the kids on occasion.  I > would think, given her desire for involvement, that she would jump at the > opportunity.  And I think you will be surprised at how the kids’ stories > will change depending on who brought them in to the appointment.  It’s > enlightening.  Just make sure you have a counselor that has experience in > blended family situations.

We’ll do that. Thanks for you imput Merrie. Caroline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Merrie > Caroline <carol…@email.net> wrote in message > news:mb_48.37692$ET1.3032132812@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com… > Hi all, > In brief, I’m the SM of 3 (2boys 6,9 and a girl they live with us since > BF has the > primary custody. I’ve been in the family more than a year now, and I worked > out a good relationship with the kids despite all what the BM have done to > keep them resentful. > At first, the BM was picking up the kids every Saturday noon and return them > the next day, Sunday evening to us. She also used to call them as often as > she wanted and whenever she wanted as long as wanted. She used to come to > our door to pick the kids and return them, mind you spending more than half > an hour every time at the door and mind you the instructions she wants to > give on how to deal with the kids… Things had gone out of limits with her > and her behavior, she would call to talk to BF for hours and all allegedly > in regards to the kids. Everytime the kids come back from a day and a half > visit at her place to criticize the rules at our house and how their Dad is > neglecting them by the mere fact that he got married again to a stranger. > My husband and I had dealt with this over the months until it got out of > hand, the kids will not listen to SM or Daddy or even to the Nanny, talk > back to us whatever we say or do… > Anyways, last summer we worked out a visitation schedule that gives the kids > and Mom somehow more time together but on  a schedule which is for the BM to > pick up the kids from school on Friday afternoons and return them to school > on Monday mornings and we alternated breaks/ holidays/ vacations. In short, > now she is spending more time with the kids which she always said she wanted > to. Also we limited her calls to 3 times a week for half an hour call each. > The problem we’re facing now is that last xmas/New Year break, the kids > spent the whole time with BM, we saw them for few hours to give them their > presents and to have dinner. > Coming back to school, and back to live with us, the kids are kinda > resentful, hateful, impolite… At first, I thought well, it’s only normal, > we had seen this before, then again, after few days this will change which > this time didn’t but got worse. > BF and I addressed the issue and tried many different ways to no avail, > school homeworks had gone very bad, and their performance! I thought this is > only a temporary issue it’ll go back to normal. It didn’t, even the simplest > thing at home the kids were taught to resent and have a very specific answer > to it. It had been like this until last week, by chance, we found out that > the BM is spending her days at the school with the kids, while asked by the > principal she replied that it is her right and that we are not letting her > see the kids or talk to them so she has to see them at school and spend some > time with them. > We had a conference last week with the kids’ teachers to find out that the > BM had been constantly visiting the school without our knowledge, which had > the kids on this consistent resentfulness of course being brainwashed every > day. > The more sad thing, is that this resentfulness found its way out of the > house to the school, the kids are not listening to their teachers, and > badmouthing their friends and make up stories that didn’t happen for their > friends to feel sorry for them (Mom’s style of course) > My question is, how do you deal with the kids under the circumstances, > without telling them your Mom is and your Mom isn’t, since we always tell > them to listen to their parents, the kids are listening to their mom, in > their mind probably they are only doing the right thing they are asked to > do. > How to have the kids differentiate right from wrong at this age without > intimidating the mom and regardless how defensive of her they are. > Any ideas are very well appreciated. > I omitted lot of details and still this wasn’t in brief afterall > Caroline

Response:

I’m having a big problem with the school actually allowing the mother to get away with this.  I wasn’t even allowed to bring a cake to SS’s clasroom on his birthday because the school did not want to disrupt the classroon.  I had to leave the cake in the office.  Do your step kids go to private school or public school?  If they go to public I would complain to the Local school board.  If they go to private then talk to the headmaster or the board of directors.  The school’s behavior is simply unacceptable. -Judy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Liz B." <lbatem…@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:3C547194.63D89E6D@yahoo.com>… > Caroline, if it were me, I would go back to court and ask for a > restraining order preventing the mother from spending time at the kids > schools except for parent teacher conferences, etc.  If you can get > statements from the teachers, etc involved to the idea of what she has > been saying and doing, that might help alot. > Your husband has primary custody, and the BM is obviously trying to > sabotage his and your relationships with the kids.  Get them into > therapy.  If the arrangement you have worked out with the BM is not > legally binding, change it immediately to restrict her time with the > kids as much as possible.  You are under no obligation to make it easier > for this woman to brainwash the kids.  Go back to court, try to explain > what is happening, you have people at the school who can testify to the > lies they have been told, etc.  Getting the kids into therapy makes you > look good, and it gives you some clout if a therapist can attest to the > psychological damage the BM is doing with her behavior. > Difficult thing is, you can’t say anything against the BM to the kids. > Anything you say at this point will only re-inforce her claims that > you’re the Anti-Christ.  Go ahead and remain positive, enforce your > rules, make them suffer discipline when they won’t do what they are told > (loss of privileges, etc) and hope.  There’s not much else you can do. > Good luck. > Liz, BM of three > http://yadablah.com > I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. > > Caroline wrote: > > Hi all, > > In brief, I’m the SM of 3 (2boys 6,9 and a girl they live with us > > since BF has the > > primary custody. I’ve been in the family more than a year now, and I > > worked out a good relationship with the kids despite all what the BM > > have done to keep them resentful. > > At first, the BM was picking up the kids every Saturday noon and > > return them the next day, Sunday evening to us. She also used to call > > them as often as she wanted and whenever she wanted as long as wanted. > > She used to come to our door to pick the kids and return them, mind > > you spending more than half an hour every time at the door and mind > > you the instructions she wants to give on how to deal with the kids… > > Things had gone out of limits with her and her behavior, she would > > call to talk to BF for hours and all allegedly in regards to the > > kids. Everytime the kids come back from a day and a half visit at her > > place to criticize the rules at our house and how their Dad is > > neglecting them by the mere fact that he got married again to a > > stranger. > > My husband and I had dealt with this over the months until it got out > > of hand, the kids will not listen to SM or Daddy or even to the Nanny, > > talk back to us whatever we say or do… > > Anyways, last summer we worked out a visitation schedule that gives > > the kids and Mom somehow more time together but on  a schedule which > > is for the BM to pick up the kids from school on Friday afternoons and > > return them to school on Monday mornings and we alternated breaks/ > > holidays/ vacations. In short, now she is spending more time with the > > kids which she always said she wanted to. Also we limited her calls to > > 3 times a week for half an hour call each. > > The problem we’re facing now is that last xmas/New Year break, the > > kids spent the whole time with BM, we saw them for few hours to give > > them their presents and to have dinner. > > Coming back to school, and back to live with us, the kids are kinda > > resentful, hateful, impolite… At first, I thought well, it’s only > > normal, we had seen this before, then again, after few days this will > > change which this time didn’t but got worse. > > BF and I addressed the issue and tried many different ways to no > > avail, school homeworks had gone very bad, and their performance! I > > thought this is only a temporary issue it’ll go back to normal. It > > didn’t, even the simplest thing at home the kids were taught to resent > > and have a very specific answer to it. It had been like this until > > last week, by chance, we found out that the BM is spending her days at > > the school with the kids, while asked by the principal she replied > > that it is her right and that we are not letting her see the kids or > > talk to them so she has to see them at school and spend some time with > > them. > > We had a conference last week with the kids’ teachers to find out that > > the BM had been constantly visiting the school without our knowledge, > > which had the kids on this consistent resentfulness of course being > > brainwashed every day. > > The more sad thing, is that this resentfulness found its way out of > > the house to the school, the kids are not listening to their teachers, > > and badmouthing their friends and make up stories that didn’t happen > > for their friends to feel sorry for them (Mom’s style of course) > > My question is, how do you deal with the kids under the circumstances, > > without telling them your Mom is and your Mom isn’t, since we always > > tell them to listen to their parents, the kids are listening to their > > mom, in their mind probably they are only doing the right thing they > > are asked to do. > > How to have the kids differentiate right from wrong at this age > > without intimidating the mom and regardless how defensive of her they > > are. > > Any ideas are very well appreciated. > > I omitted lot of details and still this wasn’t in brief afterall > > Caroline

Response:

Caroline, we are a lot alike — I also feel bad and guilty when I am constantly having to disipline my kids when they come back from dad’s…the only way I calm some of the guilt is to think that eventually, they will come to understand that things are just going to be different to some extent at each house – it unfortunately takes lots of time and patients and lots of nice bubble baths for you!  And, as you said, the past two days were better…now that you know what has really been going on and have dealt with it, it’s got to get better, and it helps a lot for you to understand where the kids were coming from. And, to the idea that the kids want mom to live in your spare bedroom….my 4 year old tries everything in her power to get me to stay at dads house with her when I drop her off, or to get him to stay here when he picks her up….she even sat on him on my couch one day and told him that he couldn’t get up, so he had to stay right there forever.. it’s natural…they want their mommy and daddy in one place so they can have both of them at the same time….and, I’m not so sure that it’s something that they ever get over…the actuall requests for it will diminish over time.  Although, my little one was over that for a long time, and has started doing it again, and I do wonder if certian thoughts have been put into her head by someone else…. Which brings me to your question of how to get your BM into counciling without the courts intervention….I don’t think there is a way,,,she has to decide that she needs the help and I don’t see it happening any time soon…I have the same problem with my ex…but, he’s been fighting the custody in the divorce, so we aren’t "final" yet, and I have taken the issue up with the guardian et litem….I am hoping and praying that she decides to order him to get counciling…and while I know he will not be happy with being told what he has to do, in the long run, I hope that with the decision coming from a neutral outside person, he will see that he really does need to deal better. I admire you for realizing that you can’t and shouldn’t attempt to take the kids from their mom completely — that in and of itself shows that you are not vengeful towards her, and that you really are concerned for the wellfare of the kids… It is called Family Counciling by the way….  Barb — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 – Release Date: 1/21/2002

Response:

Barbara Sandy wrote: > <Caroline, if it were me, I would go back to court and <ask for a > <restraining order preventing the mother from spending <time at the kids > <schools except for parent teacher conferences, etc.  If <you can get > <statements from the teachers, etc involved to the idea of <what she has > <been saying and doing, that might help alot. > This I agree with she should not be just hanging out in school with the > kids..school is a part of kids development in terms of becoming > independant..she’s really treading on a fine line there!

A *very fine line.  I’m actively involved in ym kids schools.  PTA, book fairs, room parents, all that.  It’s difficult to say that her involvement isn’t about that instead of trying to sabotage.  Fortunately for Carline’s case, the mother has been openly trying to poison the school against her and her husband, and has told outright lies which will make it much easier to prove that her intent in being at the school is to cause trouble rather than love for the kids. > <Your husband has primary custody, and the BM is <obviously trying to > <sabotage his and your relationships with the kids.  Get <them into > <therapy. > Again, I agree…divorce alone is cause to consider putting children and the > divorced parents in counciling…but add to it a BP that is so hell bent on > trashing the other BP and their SO….yipes, run, do not walk to the nearest > kiddy councilor….

Yes.  I think I misunderstood her question, though.  I thought she was asking what do you tell a therpist about why you are bringing the kids.   > < If the arrangement you have worked out with the BM is <not > <legally binding, change it immediately to restrict her time <with the > <kids as much as possible.  You are under no obligation t<o make it easier > <for this woman to brainwash the kids. > Here’s where we begin to differ — you are under no obligation to make it > easier for this woman to brainwash the kids,,,but you are under an > obligation to keep a relationship between the kids and their mom!!

I disagree.  You are under an obligation not to *poison or interefere in their relationship with their mom.  It is not Caroline’s job, imo, to make it easier for this woman to engage in what amounts to emotional abuse. >  Taking > their time with her away would be a punishment to the children — they > obviously love their mom!  And, ultimately that would breed resentment > towards you and BF!

It may *feel like a punishment, but it isn’t.  And like it or not, sometimes we have to limit the exposure our kids have to people they care about if that person is actively trying to hurt them.  The kids may not understand, but that isn’t the primary goal here.  It sucks, and it isn;t fair to the kids, but the situation is not of Caroline’s making and it is her and her husband’s job to protect the kids.  Imo, the *punishment is coming from the BM and anyone who enables her behavior. No one here seems to be working to protect these kids.  A lack of action or decision, imo, is as bad as the behavior one needs to act against in this case. I’m not saying remove mom.  I’m saying limit the time they have with her.  The kids need a stable, structured environment, not mom is coming whenever she feels like it, disrupting the whole house and regardless of other plans.  A schedule can only help. > > Go back to court, try to explain > >what is happening, you have people at the school who >can testify to the > >lies they have been told, etc > Again agreed….but do not go to court with the intention of completely > taking those kids away from their mother!

I never said that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  Go with the intention of seeing > that she gets help to deal with her issues!  She hasn’t abused them > physically and quite obviously doesn’t negelect them.  She just needs to > learn other ways of dealing with the divorce and re-marriage issue!  She > probably doesn’t even think that she is doing anything to damage her > children.  And,I know that you have probably tried to tell her that what she > is doing isn’t good for them, but why would you expect her to listen to you > when she obviously isn’t dealing well with the situation that involves you? > The woman needs some counciling — or some time on this news group — but > she deffinately does not deserve to have her children taken out of her life! > <  Getting the kids into therapy makes you > <look good, and it gives you some clout if a therapist can <attest to the > <psychological damage the BM is doing with her <behavior. > If your suggestion of putting the kids in counciling was only to "make the > custiodial parent look good",

I didn’t say that, either. > then I wonder if you couldn’t use some therapy > yourself??  I don’t mean that in a bad way, but you do seem pretty > resentful, judging from the mood of your post, and I don’t say that you > don’t have good reason to be,,,I just  say that living with a resentment > like that forever is a terrible thing to bare…talking to a councilor can > put things back into perspective and maybe ease your spirit some.

Why would I be resentful?  They aren’t my kids.  Sheesh… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <Difficult thing is, you can’t say anything against the BM <to the kids. > <Anything you say at this point will only re-inforce her <claims that > <you’re the Anti-Christ.  Go ahead and remain positive, <enforce your > <rules, make them suffer discipline when they won’t do <what they are told > <(loss of privileges, etc) and hope.  There’s not much else <you can do. > Again, agreed….and also easier said than done.  Gotta put a really thick > skin on, Caroline, and just suck it up…the only counter point that you can > use is "well, those may be the rules at Mommy’s but these are the rules > here."  no more discussion or elaboration on the issue…. > <<Good luck. > Ditto  :-) > <Liz, BM of three > <http://yadablah.com > <I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. > Barb > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 – Release Date: 1/21/2002

Response:

"Barbara Sandy" <bsa…@wi.rr.com> wrote in message

news:C2%48.326562$8w3.75616155@typhoon.kc.rr.com… > This I agree with she should not be just hanging out in school with the > kids..school is a part of kids development in terms of becoming > independant..she’s really treading on a fine line there!

My husband and I talked to the principal at school, that the BM should not be allowed in school outside regular normal visits or events. The principal will talk her, we’ll let the school deal with it first since schools have policies to enforce too. It’s good to be coming from a third party, not just us all the time. > Again, I agree…divorce alone is cause to consider putting children and the > divorced parents in counciling…but add to it a BP that is so hell bent on > trashing the other BP and their SO….yipes, run, do not walk to the nearest > kiddy councilor….

Are they called Family councelors or what? Maybe at the same time we can get the idea of the BM living in our guest room normal kind of thing out the kids’ mind. > Here’s where we begin to differ — you are under no obligation to make it > easier for this woman to brainwash the kids,,,but you are under an > obligation to keep a relationship between the kids and their mom!!  Taking > their time with her away would be a punishment to the children — they > obviously love their mom!  And, ultimately that would breed resentment > towards you and BF!

We haven’t talked a single word with the BM yet. Of course we’re not going to restrict her time with them, but the time we have in the schedule, and of course we should restrict her interference and visits to the school, this is not her time nor it is appropriate for the kids to have a parent at their side all the time. This weekend the kids are with their mom, we’ll see when they come back tomorrow how things will be. > Again agreed….but do not go to court with the intention of completely > taking those kids away from their mother!  Go with the intention of seeing > that she gets help to deal with her issues!  She hasn’t abused them > physically and quite obviously doesn’t negelect them.  She just needs to > learn other ways of dealing with the divorce and re-marriage issue!  She > probably doesn’t even think that she is doing anything to damage her > children.  And,I know that you have probably tried to tell her that what she > is doing isn’t good for them, but why would you expect her to listen to you > when she obviously isn’t dealing well with the situation that involves you? > The woman needs some counciling — or some time on this news group — but > she deffinately does not deserve to have her children taken out of her

life! How can you get this woman into councelling outside the court. I don’t think she knows that there is something wrong with her in the first place. > If your suggestion of putting the kids in counciling was only to "make the > custiodial parent look good", then I wonder if you couldn’t use some therapy > yourself??  I don’t mean that in a bad way, but you do seem pretty > resentful, judging from the mood of your post, and I don’t say that you > don’t have good reason to be,,,I just  say that living with a resentment > like that forever is a terrible thing to bare…talking to a councilor can > put things back into perspective and maybe ease your spirit some.

Ah, living in resentment, that was the past 3 weeks, it is not even healthy for anybody. > Again, agreed….and also easier said than done.  Gotta put a really thick > skin on, Caroline, and just suck it up…the only counter point that you can > use is "well, those may be the rules at Mommy’s but these are the rules > here."  no more discussion or elaboration on the issue….

Yeah, we’re doing this already, but still, not very successful. I feel sorry for the kids that they are getting deprived of a joyful life, they had been constantly deprived of their things lately. The past 2 days were not so dramatic though, since the teachers started helping. Thanks Barb, Caroline – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <<Good luck. > Ditto  :-) > <Liz, BM of three > <http://yadablah.com > <I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. > Barb > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 – Release Date: 1/21/2002

Response:

<Caroline, if it were me, I would go back to court and <ask for a <restraining order preventing the mother from spending <time at the kids <schools except for parent teacher conferences, etc.  If <you can get <statements from the teachers, etc involved to the idea of <what she has <been saying and doing, that might help alot. This I agree with she should not be just hanging out in school with the kids..school is a part of kids development in terms of becoming independant..she’s really treading on a fine line there! <Your husband has primary custody, and the BM is <obviously trying to <sabotage his and your relationships with the kids.  Get <them into <therapy. Again, I agree…divorce alone is cause to consider putting children and the divorced parents in counciling…but add to it a BP that is so hell bent on trashing the other BP and their SO….yipes, run, do not walk to the nearest kiddy councilor…. < If the arrangement you have worked out with the BM is <not <legally binding, change it immediately to restrict her time <with the <kids as much as possible.  You are under no obligation t<o make it easier <for this woman to brainwash the kids. Here’s where we begin to differ — you are under no obligation to make it easier for this woman to brainwash the kids,,,but you are under an obligation to keep a relationship between the kids and their mom!!  Taking their time with her away would be a punishment to the children — they obviously love their mom!  And, ultimately that would breed resentment towards you and BF! > Go back to court, try to explain >what is happening, you have people at the school who >can testify to the >lies they have been told, etc

Again agreed….but do not go to court with the intention of completely taking those kids away from their mother!  Go with the intention of seeing that she gets help to deal with her issues!  She hasn’t abused them physically and quite obviously doesn’t negelect them.  She just needs to learn other ways of dealing with the divorce and re-marriage issue!  She probably doesn’t even think that she is doing anything to damage her children.  And,I know that you have probably tried to tell her that what she is doing isn’t good for them, but why would you expect her to listen to you when she obviously isn’t dealing well with the situation that involves you? The woman needs some counciling — or some time on this news group — but she deffinately does not deserve to have her children taken out of her life! <  Getting the kids into therapy makes you <look good, and it gives you some clout if a therapist can <attest to the <psychological damage the BM is doing with her <behavior. If your suggestion of putting the kids in counciling was only to "make the custiodial parent look good", then I wonder if you couldn’t use some therapy yourself??  I don’t mean that in a bad way, but you do seem pretty resentful, judging from the mood of your post, and I don’t say that you don’t have good reason to be,,,I just  say that living with a resentment like that forever is a terrible thing to bare…talking to a councilor can put things back into perspective and maybe ease your spirit some. <Difficult thing is, you can’t say anything against the BM <to the kids. <Anything you say at this point will only re-inforce her <claims that <you’re the Anti-Christ.  Go ahead and remain positive, <enforce your <rules, make them suffer discipline when they won’t do <what they are told <(loss of privileges, etc) and hope.  There’s not much else <you can do. Again, agreed….and also easier said than done.  Gotta put a really thick skin on, Caroline, and just suck it up…the only counter point that you can use is "well, those may be the rules at Mommy’s but these are the rules here."  no more discussion or elaboration on the issue…. <<Good luck. Ditto  :-) <Liz, BM of three <http://yadablah.com <I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. Barb — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.317 / Virus Database: 176 – Release Date: 1/21/2002

Response:

Caroline, if it were me, I would go back to court and ask for a restraining order preventing the mother from spending time at the kids schools except for parent teacher conferences, etc.  If you can get statements from the teachers, etc involved to the idea of what she has been saying and doing, that might help alot. Your husband has primary custody, and the BM is obviously trying to sabotage his and your relationships with the kids.  Get them into therapy.  If the arrangement you have worked out with the BM is not legally binding, change it immediately to restrict her time with the kids as much as possible.  You are under no obligation to make it easier for this woman to brainwash the kids.  Go back to court, try to explain what is happening, you have people at the school who can testify to the lies they have been told, etc.  Getting the kids into therapy makes you look good, and it gives you some clout if a therapist can attest to the psychological damage the BM is doing with her behavior. Difficult thing is, you can’t say anything against the BM to the kids. Anything you say at this point will only re-inforce her claims that you’re the Anti-Christ.  Go ahead and remain positive, enforce your rules, make them suffer discipline when they won’t do what they are told (loss of privileges, etc) and hope.  There’s not much else you can do. Good luck. Liz, BM of three http://yadablah.com I Love Lucy in hell.  On acid. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Caroline wrote: > Hi all, > In brief, I’m the SM of 3 (2boys 6,9 and a girl they live with us > since BF has the > primary custody. I’ve been in the family more than a year now, and I > worked out a good relationship with the kids despite all what the BM > have done to keep them resentful. > At first, the BM was picking up the kids every Saturday noon and > return them the next day, Sunday evening to us. She also used to call > them as often as she wanted and whenever she wanted as long as wanted. > She used to come to our door to pick the kids and return them, mind > you spending more than half an hour every time at the door and mind > you the instructions she wants to give on how to deal with the kids… > Things had gone out of limits with her and her behavior, she would > call to talk to BF for hours and all allegedly in regards to the > kids. Everytime the kids come back from a day and a half visit at her > place to criticize the rules at our house and how their Dad is > neglecting them by the mere fact that he got married again to a > stranger. > My husband and I had dealt with this over the months until it got out > of hand, the kids will not listen to SM or Daddy or even to the Nanny, > talk back to us whatever we say or do… > Anyways, last summer we worked out a visitation schedule that gives > the kids and Mom somehow more time together but on  a schedule which > is for the BM to pick up the kids from school on Friday afternoons and > return them to school on Monday mornings and we alternated breaks/ > holidays/ vacations. In short, now she is spending more time with the > kids which she always said she wanted to. Also we limited her calls to > 3 times a week for half an hour call each. > The problem we’re facing now is that last xmas/New Year break, the > kids spent the whole time with BM, we saw them for few hours to give > them their presents and to have dinner. > Coming back to school, and back to live with us, the kids are kinda > resentful, hateful, impolite… At first, I thought well, it’s only > normal, we had seen this before, then again, after few days this will > change which this time didn’t but got worse. > BF and I addressed the issue and tried many different ways to no > avail, school homeworks had gone very bad, and their performance! I > thought this is only a temporary issue it’ll go back to normal. It > didn’t, even the simplest thing at home the kids were taught to resent > and have a very specific answer to it. It had been like this until > last week, by chance, we found out that the BM is spending her days at > the school with the kids, while asked by the principal she replied > that it is her right and that we are not letting her see the kids or > talk to them so she has to see them at school and spend some time with > them. > We had a conference last week with the kids’ teachers to find out that > the BM had been constantly visiting the school without our knowledge, > which had the kids on this consistent resentfulness of course being > brainwashed every day. > The more sad thing, is that this resentfulness found its way out of > the house to the school, the kids are not listening to their teachers, > and badmouthing their friends and make up stories that didn’t happen > for their friends to feel sorry for them (Mom’s style of course) > My question is, how do you deal with the kids under the circumstances, > without telling them your Mom is and your Mom isn’t, since we always > tell them to listen to their parents, the kids are listening to their > mom, in their mind probably they are only doing the right thing they > are asked to do. > How to have the kids differentiate right from wrong at this age > without intimidating the mom and regardless how defensive of her they > are. > Any ideas are very well appreciated. > I omitted lot of details and still this wasn’t in brief afterall > Caroline

Response:

Hi all, In brief, I’m the SM of 3 (2boys 6,9 and a girl they live with us since BF has the primary custody. I’ve been in the family more than a year now, and I worked out a good relationship with the kids despite all what the BM have done to keep them resentful. At first, the BM was picking up the kids every Saturday noon and return them the next day, Sunday evening to us. She also used to call them as often as she wanted and whenever she wanted as long as wanted. She used to come to our door to pick the kids and return them, mind you spending more than half an hour every time at the door and mind you the instructions she wants to give on how to deal with the kids… Things had gone out of limits with her and her behavior, she would call to talk to BF for hours and all allegedly in regards to the kids. Everytime the kids come back from a day and a half visit at her place to criticize the rules at our house and how their Dad is neglecting them by the mere fact that he got married again to a stranger. My husband and I had dealt with this over the months until it got out of hand, the kids will not listen to SM or Daddy or even to the Nanny, talk back to us whatever we say or do… Anyways, last summer we worked out a visitation schedule that gives the kids and Mom somehow more time together but on  a schedule which is for the BM to pick up the kids from school on Friday afternoons and return them to school on Monday mornings and we alternated breaks/ holidays/ vacations. In short, now she is spending more time with the kids which she always said she wanted to. Also we limited her calls to 3 times a week for half an hour call each. The problem we’re facing now is that last xmas/New Year break, the kids spent the whole time with BM, we saw them for few hours to give them their presents and to have dinner. Coming back to school, and back to live with us, the kids are kinda resentful, hateful, impolite… At first, I thought well, it’s only normal, we had seen this before, then again, after few days this will change which this time didn’t but got worse. BF and I addressed the issue and tried many different ways to no avail, school homeworks had gone very bad, and their performance! I thought this is only a temporary issue it’ll go back to normal. It didn’t, even the simplest thing at home the kids were taught to resent and have a very specific answer to it. It had been like this until last week, by chance, we found out that the BM is spending her days at the school with the kids, while asked by the principal she replied that it is her right and that we are not letting her see the kids or talk to them so she has to see them at school and spend some time with them. We had a conference last week with the kids’ teachers to find out that the BM had been constantly visiting the school without our knowledge, which had the kids on this consistent resentfulness of course being brainwashed every day. The more sad thing, is that this resentfulness found its way out of the house to the school, the kids are not listening to their teachers, and badmouthing their friends and make up stories that didn’t happen for their friends to feel sorry for them (Mom’s style of course) My question is, how do you deal with the kids under the circumstances, without telling them your Mom is and your Mom isn’t, since we always tell them to listen to their parents, the kids are listening to their mom, in their mind probably they are only doing the right thing they are asked to do. How to have the kids differentiate right from wrong at this age without intimidating the mom and regardless how defensive of her they are. Any ideas are very well appreciated. I omitted lot of details and still this wasn’t in brief afterall Caroline

Response:

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