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Boy Scout Bashing

Question:

Rick, I feel sorry that you are trapped in your own prejudices, anger and fears. To imply that the BSA position of keeping gays out is for gays own good (you say they will be miserable) is that same as saying lets keep blacks, jews, indians, asians out because thery would be individuals who would not like them. perhaps you don’t see the bigotry inherant in that kind of analysis. Your other analysis (sp) of america tends to leave me feeling that you may be afraid of change and uncertanty. Who the hell cares if other countries laugh at us. They may laugh but their freedom to laugh is a product of the democratic and liberal values that makes this country so strong. I am liberal and don’t agree with the conservative line now popular, I a proud of a country that allows such diverse and stridant debate. Shakespear’s line in Henry VI about killing all the lawyers was the talk of a bunch of criminals plotting to destroy the government so they could rob, rape and murder. Keep up your conservative point of view, wheter I think you are off base or not, as an american, you have the right to those views. Just grant the rest of us the same rights! | |…… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..

Response:

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Mark, I, for one, would probably be much more likely to be inclined to help teach these youngsters if the BSA were more inclusive and tolerant of all people and their various viewpoints and lifestyles. I think teaching kids about wilderness travel and nature is fun and very rewarding. As it stands, I have better things to do with my time than work with an organization that looks down on others based on their sex, sexual preference, and belief, or lack thereof, in the deity du jour. When this bigotry is adressed and overcome, let me know and I’ll be happy to chip in. Until then, quit whining about some of the observations folks are making in these related threads…. ShaunThen go start your own organization, call them "Buggers of America" — you do your thing and the Boy Scouts will continue to do theirs. Remember, it is a voluntary organization, if you don’t believe in what they do, then don’t join them. If they don’t provide the services you desire, then form your own organization. That is what a free and democratic society is all about. D McGuffey

Hey Dave, You’re a real renaissance man aren’t you? Why don’t you go ahead and brush up on those old reading comprehension skills you seem to have put away. The poster I was responding to posed the challenge that no one has a right to complain about poor BSA behavior unless they are willing to help out with the BSA. I responded that I will not be willing to do that until the BSA repudiates biggots and jerks like you. Is this too complex for you to follow? Shaun

Response:

My father was a boy scout when he was a boy. He earned all badges to become an Eagle scout. However, when he was very young, he had ear problems and the doctors had drilled a hole into his inner ear, which was used to clean the area out. Because of this hole (which was permanent), he could not swim, and couldn’t get the swimming merit badge (or whatever it was). Goodbye Eagle scout. When I was in cub scouts (in a totally different city), I couldn’t do a particular maneuver which was required because I have a curved spine. Same thing happened to me, I couldn’t "progress" in their little program.

As the leader of a Cub Scout den (Webelos), the training that I’ve had indicated that if a scout was physically unable to perform a task because of medical or health problems, he could be excused from that requirement or it could be modified to the extent necessary for him to complete it. It could be the result of changes in policy, or simply a leader who was unaware of or unwilling to use this flexibility, but this does not appear to be the case now. I cannot speak for the requirements for Eagle Scout (Boy Scout rules and requirements are different from Cub Scouts), but I would suspect that it is treated similarly. Mark

Response:

I, for one, would probably be much more likely to be inclined to help teach these youngsters if the BSA were more inclusive and tolerant of all people and their various viewpoints and lifestyles. I think teaching kids about wilderness travel and nature is fun and very rewarding. As it stands, I have better things to do with my time than work with an organization that looks down on others based on their sex, sexual preference, and belief, or lack thereof, in the deity du jour. When this bigotry is adressed and overcome, let me know and I’ll be happy to chip in. Until then, quit whining about some of the observations folks are making in these related threads…. Shaun

– Why does an organization have to accept people who do not share the same belief? Typical liberal whining rhetoric expects all to make the playing field level, or "something is not fair". I do not believe in fairness as a rule of judgment. I believe in morals and consistency. If you try to make everything fair, it will always fail, as many would feel things were still unfair. Make things consistant and truthful. I do not want gays and lesbians around me, and if I have children, I absolutely do not want them around my children. If gays and women want organizations, why don’t they start their own? Who is holding them back? Who?? It is always easier to cry unfairness, rahter than take the initiative to do something of value. I constantly see the cries of "Mainstream isn’t accepting me", "people look down at me/us", "I’ve been discriminated against"… What is the real problem – Do you want to get out there and enjoy yourselves doing something in a like group, or play the victim. Obviously it is the "play the victim ploy". Think about it – If gays were accepted, they would be miserable because many still would not tolerate them. I am sure it would be extremely difficult to find tent-mates. I am sure they would be consistentaly and constantly picked on….Life is tough. I grew up catholic and I now often wonder if there is a god, I no longer worship but I certainly do not look down upon others for their choice in gods. I also don’t put god down. For those of you who do, remember, your paycheck is based upon "in god we trust" and I see no one turning it down in protest. Finally, the liberalization of this country is a shame – What was once a proud nation is now wothing but whiners. I don’t know how many have relatives in other countries, but America is becoming a laughing stock of the rest of the world because Americans whine and fret about everything, fail to take responisbility for their own actions (The attitude is "Good let’s sue everyone we can find, we make someone pay for this inequity")and are worried about who has more than them. People who do work hard to get ahead are looked down upon by many as unsympathetic to the plight of the poor. This rich person must have had more opportunities than me – That’s not fair. They should give more back to the government and the poor & oppressed….. I’d apologize for the soapbox, but I am not sorry for going on like this.

Response:

[snip] The [Scouting] organization as a whole voted to block participation by females. The organization as a whole voted to block participation by gays. The organization as a whole has historically underspent in recruiting minorities. The organization as a whole shoves Judeo/Christian traditions down children’s throat whether they or their parents wish it. The organization is an example of intolerance to youth, and therefore reinforces bigotry.

[snip] Not the organization as a whole; the people at National headquarters. If National had as much influence over what really happens at the local level as they’d like to believe they have, I would have resigned years ago. As it is, most of us ignore the majority of National’s narrow-minded rhetoric and present the program as it was originally intended. — Bill Gascoyne —– Speak for them? LSI Logic Corp. LSI |LOGIC| They hardly even 1501 McCarthy Blvd. | | listen to me! MS E-197 —–

Response:

: Think about it – If gays were accepted, they would be miserable because many still would not tolerate them. Think about it – if blacks were accepted, they would be miserable because many still would not tolerate them. and : Why does an organization have to accept people who do not share the same belief? Typical liberal whining : Finally, the liberalization of this country is a shame – What was once a proud nation is now wothing but Etc. You know, this is about the 10th posting from pro-scout groups slamming "liberals", calling anyone liberal "whiners", saying they are "destroying the country", etc. Then, they also complain about people being "anti-scouting", and being "bigoted" towards scouts. Hmm. Pot… Kettle… Black… : the rest of the world because Americans whine and fret about everything, fail to take responisbility for their : own actions Then why are the scouts blaming others for the black bear killing? I’ve heard that the NPS is responsible, people who aren’t volunteering to lead scouts are responsible, etc. Guess they’re a bunch of "liberals", eh?

Response:

Just to clear up an important point here, there are no religious merit badges in Scouts. There are religious awards, but these are not given by the BSA. All religious awards are sponsored by the individual religions. So if one religion is missing, it’s up to them to get an award going. I don’t know if there are any guidelines for this, so maybe if "Joe’s Church of the Almighty Sweatsock" wanted to give out an award I’m not sure if the BSA has any say in this. Marc Godbout Scoutmaster Troop 98 Assistant Scoutmaster Troop 412 Derry, NH

Response:

When I was in cub scouts (in a totally different city), I couldn’t do a particular maneuver which was required because I have a curved spine. Same thing happened to me, I couldn’t "progress" in their little program. As the leader of a Cub Scout den (Webelos), the training that I’ve had indicated that if a scout was physically unable to perform a task because of medical or health problems, he could be excused from that requirement or it could be modified to the extent necessary for him to complete it.

The same policy exists in Boy Scouts as well. The original poster seemed to have a bad experience with one troop and consequently assumes all scouts act in the same manner. GR

Response:

I do not want gays and lesbians around me, and if I have children, I absolutely do not want them around my children.

Then you had better stay home, lock the doors, and pull the shades. Homosexuals are a significant portion of our society. Excluding them from your life, even if it were possible, would likely have a negative impact on your quality of life. It is always easier to cry unfairness, rahter than take the initiative to do something of value.

In my experience, many minorities do both. Finally, the liberalization of this country is a shame – What was once a proud nation is now wothing but whiners.

It remains one of the best hopes for people of all colors, faiths, abilities and persuasions to live in peace. -T. I don’t know how many have relatives in other countries, but America – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -is becoming a laughing stock of the rest of the world because Americans whine and fret about everything, fail to take responisbility for their own actions (The attitude is "Good let’s sue everyone we can find, we make someone pay for this inequity")and are worried about who has more than them. People who do work hard to get ahead are looked down upon by many as unsympathetic to the plight of the poor. This rich person must have had more opportunities than me – That’s not fair. They should give more back to the government and the poor & oppressed….. I’d apologize for the soapbox, but I am not sorry for going on like this.

Response:

Amen Shaun. You took the words right out of my keyboard. While individual Scouts and leaders may be fine folks, the organization as a whole has taken some very conservative and intolerant positions; I’d certainly not encourage my children to join. My own experince in scouting (20 years back) was often made uncomfortable by the "god and country" party line. There are other options to get kids (male and female) into the outdoors. — Derek R. Larson Indiana University Dept. of History "Nothing interesting occurred today…" -Meriwether Lewis at Ft. Clatsop, Oregon, Jan.4th, 1806

Response:

<snip The organization as a whole shoves Judeo/Christian traditions down children’s throat whether they or their parents wish it. Again, simply not true. Perhaps you could site some examples to change my mind on this point.

Hey Keith, When I was in school I tried to join the scouts in Massachusetts. While the troop was organizing, it was made very clear to us that the group was for those who believed in God and Country. While I have some fondness for the notion of country, I have none for the notion of some god or other. My parents are catholic, but my family has always been open about religion and it was not forced down my throat as it is in many households. It seemed hypocritical to me then, as it does now, to simply ignore my own conscience in these matters. It was made abundantly clear to me that I was not going to be welcomed on my terms. I left the notion of scouting behind and was lucky enough to spend all of my free moments in the woods of New Hampshire. This is blatant discrimination. I would *never* enroll children of mine in such a group. Fortunately, if I ever have kids, they will have someone far more qualified than most scout masters to teach them about the outdoors… Shaun

Response:

Agreed! I am an Eagle scout who is tired of hearing the Boy Scout bashing! Should we put an end to this wonderful organization?!! NONE of you who complain are doing anything to help unless you get involved with helping the youth get what they should out of scouting. Thanks Buck for standing up to the idiots who want to point the finger at the whole scouting organization for the acts of a few. These people have the same mentality as those who see one minority member do something bad and from then on label all minority members as sub par. Get a life!!! AND MAKE IT SOON!!! Mark

Hey Mark, I, for one, would probably be much more likely to be inclined to help teach these youngsters if the BSA were more inclusive and tolerant of all people and their various viewpoints and lifestyles. I think teaching kids about wilderness travel and nature is fun and very rewarding. As it stands, I have better things to do with my time than work with an organization that looks down on others based on their sex, sexual preference, and belief, or lack thereof, in the deity du jour. When this bigotry is adressed and overcome, let me know and I’ll be happy to chip in. Until then, quit whining about some of the observations folks are making in these related threads…. Shaun

Response:

: I moticed no one replied to my post. So I will briefly restate my : points before I move on. The organization as a whole voted to block : participation by females. The organization as a whole voted to block : participation by gays. The organization as a whole has historically : underspent in recruiting minorities. The organization as a whole shoves : Judeo/Christian traditions down children’s throat whether they or their : parents wish it. The organization is an example of intolerance to youth, : and therefore reinforces bigotry. Get your facts straight! Females are allowed all power that any male leader has. You’re correct about the gays (this is one that I don’t agree with). Never in my years of being a scout, has any religous ideas been shoved down my throat without my permission. "Bigotry", how about a little more research, and talk to me tomorrow. Finally I ask you, what organization as a whole has not historically underspent in recruiting minorities? I know of quite a few minority troops in my council. : The reason I don’t help scouting is that I want the organization to : whither and die, and be replaced with an organization that is more : healthy for young people to be involved with. But unlike you, I have a : grasp on the concept of tolerance, and unless something ridiculous : happens (like scouts stoning a bear cub), I accept that you will do what : you are going to do. I don’t believe that you even know the half of what the Boy Scouts stand for. You are probably one of these people who only know what the media tells you. : I’m doing my part. I live in inner city LA. I’m starting a debate : program at a junior college here, and I’m going to recruit "at-risk" : kids from poor areas of this city, and form a team. My hope is that : the kids will learn conflict resolution skills, and bring those back : to their neighborhoods, and maybe pick up a scholarship and an : education along the way. And the best part of it all is I won’t be : telling them how to think, they will learn how to think for themselves. : There are many people here and everywhere else that are trying to do : their part to provide good role models to todays kids in many different : ways. Your way has created the environmental, economic, and : socialogical mess we have today. We’re the ones that are trying to pick : up the pieces, and forge a new paradigm that can sustain this nation : and the world through the trials that are just over the horizon. Well, I’m glad that you are getting involved with some sort of youth organization, and not one of these people who just complains. However contrary to your belief, the BSA does help youth think for themselves. Again, I’ll say *never* was anything "shoved down my throat" that I didn’t agree with in the first place. Another question, how the hell can you attribute "the mess" of society to the Boy Scouts? Research, research, research, talk to me tomorrow. : Your attitude through this disgusting incident shows that maybe we : out to start acting more decisively in getting kids away from your : organizations influence. I certainly wouldn’t want any of my nieces or : nephews being influenced by you. That’s your choice, since you obviously don’t know the first thing about the scouting program (except for media coverage) then you are the missing out on the opprotunity. dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd bdbdb UofL, Speed Scientific School TIP#1836 David Bryan Buckingham (502)397-5496 (pager) Triangle Fraternity HSC Lab Consultant dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd bdbdb

Response:

: OK, I’m sick of it! Why, all of a sudden, does everyone want to bash the Boy : Scouts of America? I’ll give my two personal experiences… My father was a boy scout when he was a boy. He earned all badges to become an Eagle scout. However, when he was very young, he had ear problems and the doctors had drilled a hole into his inner ear, which was used to clean the area out. Because of this hole (which was permanent), he could not swim, and couldn’t get the swimming merit badge (or whatever it was). Goodbye Eagle scout. When I was in cub scouts (in a totally different city), I couldn’t do a particular maneuver which was required because I have a curved spine. Same thing happened to me, I couldn’t "progress" in their little program. : I gained a lot of knowledge from the BSA and can : attribute the man I am today to the organization. And I can attribute my attitudes directly to the org., too. : If you do not like the way Boy Scouts : act or what they do, then make a differnece and don’t complain about them! : Join a troop and lead the youth of today, make them the leaders of tomorrow! So, if I join a local group, it would be okay to accept gays/agnostics? : I’m just standing up for what I BELIEVE in! Same here. — Scott Linn CMOS IC Design Engineer Hewlett-Packard Integrated Circuits Business Division – Corvallis, OR

Response:

I can’t comment on the international side of scouting. I can only comment on scouting in the US. In the US, scouting does not seek to seperate itself from Judeo/Christian traditions. suggesting that people don’t have the right to associate with others having similar views? I suggest that a parent who enrolls a child in a program that professes values different than those they want taught is acting irrationally.

There are many ways to teach values without involving any discussions about God. : But unlike you, I have a grasp on the concept of tolerance, and unless [snip] Maybe I’m missing something, but your post seems very intolerant to me. Do you tolerate people who believe in Biblical values?

I’m Catholic. I go to Mass somewhat regularly. I believe that religion plays a vital role in an individuals life. I think church youth groups are great. But the Boy Scouts does not portray itself as a religious group. It portrays itself as an absolutely multi-cultural organization (as you have) and it simply is not true. There are merit badges for some religions and not other. There are lists of things a young man must do to recieve these merit badges. Religious questions should be between a family and their pastor, and left right there. : I’m doing my part. I live in inner city LA. I’m starting a debate : program at a junior college here, and I’m going to recruit "at-risk" : kids from poor areas of this city, and form a team. My hope is that : the kids will learn conflict resolution skills, and bring those back : to their neighborhoods, and maybe pick up a scholarship and an : education along the way. And the best part of it all is I won’t be : telling them how to think, they will learn how to think for themselves. Cool. You are to be commended for putting actions to your beliefs. But you’re kidding yourself if you really think you aren’t teaching them your values. Steve Jones

For the record, debaters have to be ready in any round to argue either side of any issue that can be considered current events. Independent thinking is vital to success. Again, it is a misconception that values have to be taught in a religious context.

Response:

OK, I’m sick of it! Why, all of a sudden, does everyone want to bash the Boy

<snip up for what I BELIEVE in! Buck Lincoln Hertiage Council, BSA Boy Scouts = Presidents, Astronauts, Engineers, Lawyers, Movie Producers, … Boy Scouts = Leaders!

‘Atta boy, Buck! Well put. – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – If "Con" is the opposite of "Pro", then what is the opposite of "Progress"? Ron Lister

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Agreed! I am an Eagle scout who is tired of hearing the Boy Scout bashing! Should we put an end to this wonderful organization?!! NONE of you who complain are doing anything to help unless you get involved with helping the youth get what they should out of scouting. Thanks Buck for standing up to the idiots who want to point the finger at the whole scouting organization for the acts of a few. These people have the same mentality as those who see one minority member do something bad and from then on label all minority members as sub par. Get a life!!! AND MAKE IT SOON!!! Mark Hey Mark, I, for one, would probably be much more likely to be inclined to help teach these youngsters if the BSA were more inclusive and tolerant of all people and their various viewpoints and lifestyles. I think teaching kids about wilderness travel and nature is fun and very rewarding. As it stands, I have better things to do with my time than work with an organization that looks down on others based on their sex, sexual preference, and belief, or lack thereof, in the deity du jour. When this bigotry is adressed and overcome, let me know and I’ll be happy to chip in. Until then, quit whining about some of the observations folks are making in these related threads…. ShaunThen go start your own organization, call them "Buggers of America" —

you do your thing and the Boy Scouts will continue to do theirs. Remember, it is a voluntary organization, if you don’t believe in what they do, then don’t join them. If they don’t provide the services you desire, then form your own organization. That is what a free and democratic society is all about. D McGuffey

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Organization: Internet Tyler X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6 Hi Adam, I would be curious to know what your association with Scouting has been. The organization you describe bears no resemblance to the organization I have known in my 35 years (off and on) as a Scout and Scouter. I moticed no one replied to my post. So I will briefly restate my points before I move on. The organization as a whole voted to block participation by females.

You may not have known that Scouting welcomes women as leaders at all levels, including Scoutmaster. Scouting also offers a co-ed program (it’s called Exploring). The organization as a whole voted to block participation by gays.

This is true. It’s based on the values held by the membership. Note that Scouting makes no judgements one way or the other on homosexual people in the program or the literature. Scouting does not condem, agitate against, or otherwise malign these people. The organization as a whole has historically underspent in recruiting minorities.

Simply not true. Scouting has committed many dollars, hours, and much effort in recruiting minority youth, volunteers, and Scouting professionals (example: Operation First Class) The organization as a whole shoves Judeo/Christian traditions down children’s throat whether they or their parents wish it.

Again, simply not true. Perhaps you could site some examples to change my mind on this point. The organization is an example of intolerance to youth, and therefore reinforces bigotry. The reason I don’t help scouting is that I want the organization to whither and die, and be replaced with an organization that is more healthy for young people to be involved with…(edited here)

You are to be commended for your work with youth that you mentioned in your post. I only wish you could see that intolerance takes many forms, (I think your post is an example) and that you would be open minded enough to acknowledge the good that Scouting has done throughout the years for many generations of young people. I wish you could see our troop in action; young men of all colors, faiths, and economic backgrounds work- ing together to make their community a better place. Now that you have a reply to your post, if you’d like to continue this discussion, let’s do it outside of this newsgroup so it can go back to the topics for which it was intended. Thanks for listening, Keith

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, I’m sick of it! Why, all of a sudden, does everyone want to bash the Boy Scouts of America? I am nineteen years old and I have been active in the Boy Scouts since I was 8. I gained a lot of knowledge from the BSA and can attribute the man I am today to the organization. I will admit that it seems today the press is making the Boy Scouts look like "Hitler Youth" (whomever said is an IDIOT!!!!) but look at what good the organization does! I posted a note earlier today with the line… "Boys will be boys, unless their leaders make them men". If you do not like the way Boy Scouts act or what they do, then make a differnece and don’t complain about them! Join a troop and lead the youth of today, make them the leaders of tomorrow! I’m sick of hearing everyone say that they hate the Boy Scouts! How much knowledge do you have of the BSA? Until you can acknowledge that, then leave your mouth shut! I’m just standing up for what I BELIEVE in! Buck Lincoln Hertiage Council, BSA Agreed! I am an Eagle scout who is tired of hearing the Boy Scout bashing! Should we put an end to this wonderful organization?!! NONE of you who complain are doing anything to help unless you get involved with helping the youth get what they should out of scouting. Thanks Buck for standing up to the idiots who want to point the finger at the whole scouting organization for the acts of a few. These people have the same mentality as those who see one minority member do something bad and from then on label all minority members as sub par. Get a life!!! AND MAKE IT SOON!!! Mark

I moticed no one replied to my post. So I will briefly restate my points before I move on. The organization as a whole voted to block participation by females. The organization as a whole voted to block participation by gays. The organization as a whole has historically underspent in recruiting minorities. The organization as a whole shoves Judeo/Christian traditions down children’s throat whether they or their parents wish it. The organization is an example of intolerance to youth, and therefore reinforces bigotry. The reason I don’t help scouting is that I want the organization to whither and die, and be replaced with an organization that is more healthy for young people to be involved with. But unlike you, I have a grasp on the concept of tolerance, and unless something ridiculous happens (like scouts stoning a bear cub), I accept that you will do what you are going to do. I’m doing my part. I live in inner city LA. I’m starting a debate program at a junior college here, and I’m going to recruit "at-risk" kids from poor areas of this city, and form a team. My hope is that the kids will learn conflict resolution skills, and bring those back to their neighborhoods, and maybe pick up a scholarship and an education along the way. And the best part of it all is I won’t be telling them how to think, they will learn how to think for themselves. There are many people here and everywhere else that are trying to do their part to provide good role models to todays kids in many different ways. Your way has created the environmental, economic, and socialogical mess we have today. We’re the ones that are trying to pick up the pieces, and forge a new paradigm that can sustain this nation and the world through the trials that are just over the horizon. Your attitude through this disgusting incident shows that maybe we out to start acting more decisively in getting kids away from your organizations influence. I certainly wouldn’t want any of my nieces or nephews being influenced by you. Adam F. Smith

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I posted a note earlier today with the line… "Boys will be boys, unless their leaders make them men". If you do not like the way Boy Scouts act or what they do, then make a differnece and don’t complain about them! Join a troop and lead the youth of today, make them the leaders of tomorrow! I’m sick of hearing everyone say that they hate the Boy Scouts! How much knowledge do you have of the BSA? Until you can acknowledge that, then leave your mouth shut! I’m just standing up for what I BELIEVE in! Buck Lincoln Hertiage Council, BSA

Then you’ve learned well, Buck. Keep up the good work. I posted a note re:some Scouts inappropriate behavior condoned by adult leaders in the backcountry. I stand by my advice: if you’re going to write a letter of complaint, be as willing to write a letter of compliment. Tell your leaders thanks for doing such a good job with you. You seem like a great asset to BSA.

Response:

OK, I’m sick of it! Why, all of a sudden, does everyone want to bash the Boy Scouts of America? I am nineteen years old and I have been active in the Boy Scouts since I was 8. I gained a lot of knowledge from the BSA and can attribute the man I am today to the organization. I will admit that it seems today the press is making the Boy Scouts look like "Hitler Youth" (whomever said is an IDIOT!!!!) but look at what good the organization does! I posted a note earlier today with the line… "Boys will be boys, unless their leaders make them men". If you do not like the way Boy Scouts act or what they do, then make a differnece and don’t complain about them! Join a troop and lead the youth of today, make them the leaders of tomorrow! I’m sick of hearing everyone say that they hate the Boy Scouts! How much knowledge do you have of the BSA? Until you can acknowledge that, then leave your mouth shut! I’m just standing up for what I BELIEVE in! Buck Lincoln Hertiage Council, BSA Boy Scouts = Presidents, Astronauts, Engineers, Lawyers, Movie Producers, … Boy Scouts = Leaders! dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd bdbdb UofL, Speed Scientific School TIP#1836 David Bryan Buckingham (502)397-5496 (pager) Triangle Fraternity HSC Lab Consultant dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd bdbdb

Response:

I am going to have to agree with this letter. I too was a boy scout about 20 years ago, and it is what fostered my love for the outdoors. Instead of complaining, why don’t you volunteer your time to lead some of these outdoor activities? Although some of the leaders do not have the experience that some people have in the outdoors, at least they are out there giving their time to try to make these boys into mature, responsible adults. Is it just me, or have I noticed a definate trend toward elitism and snobbery among many outdoors types? It used to be that people with experince in the bush used to take the time to educate others. Now it seems that they "look down their noses" and make comments like "those people have no business in the backcountry." Alex Gilmour "My opinions are mine, not Intel’s"

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: :Hooray for motherhood and apple pie! : :If you approve of criminally stoning bear cubs to death, then I suggest we put :you in the gorilla cage and explain the situation to momma gorilla. Ok, I’ll admit that the posts that I made yesterday were a little from the heart. But your feeble attempt to threaten me failed. If this is what you think I believe, then I’ll ignore your close-minded opnions! To straighten myself out, I do not condone the stoning of a cub by the Boy Scouts. As a matter of fact I would like to sit down and have a little talk with those involved (esp. the leaders). I just don’t like the way everyone all of a sudden believes that the BSA is a bad organization. The BSA helps many kids everyday who would otherwise be doomed! Just because of a few bad apples in the bushel, does not mean that everyone needs to demean the organization as a whole. For example, look at politics. We have had quite a few presidents who have had their share of trouble while in office, but I bet that those of you out there who disagree with my outlook on scouts, still vote. If you don’t like what you see from the BSA, then I urge you to get involved. The BSA might teach you something, as well as you teach them. Otherwise, I don’t think you have the RIGHT to make a judgement! As for anyone else out there who feels as though you want to threaten me anonymously, go ahead. It just shows how immature you may be! In other words, it doesn’t make you any better than those involved in the cub incident! Again, just voicing my opnion, U. Buck Eagle Class of ‘90 dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd bdbdb UofL, Speed Scientific School TIP#1836 David Bryan Buckingham (502)397-5496 (pager) Triangle Fraternity HSC Lab Consultant dbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbdbd bdbdb

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