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Crab Crushers, MacCarthyism and Life rafts

Question:

meuzelaar falsely states: Anders-Eivor, ….. So, …Jax called you names? …

JAX never called Anders names.  JAX did characterize some of Anders postings as that of a crotchity old man.  "Crotchity" is an adjective, not a noun.  I believe it was also suggested that Anders did take disagreement well, and he sometimes knew things that didn’t stand loose scrutiny. I believe it was also mentioned that Anders brought some good things to this board.  For that he will be missed.

Response:

<snip JAX never called Anders names.  JAX did characterize some of Anders postings as that of a crotchity old man.  

<snip Holy grammatical hair-splitting, Batman! Although "crotchity" is an adjective, calling someone a "crotchity old man" is normally considered calling someone a name.   If someone called you a "stupid guy" would this not be name calling because the term "stupid" was used as an adjective?

Response:

Terry Schell writes: If someone called you a "stupid guy" would this not be name calling because the term "stupid" was used as an adjective?

The only person to ever call me stupid was my ex-wife, and generally only then when I used two- and three-sylable words in her presence.

Response:

Terry Schell writes: If someone called you a "stupid guy" would this not be name calling because the term "stupid" was used as an adjective? The only person to ever call me stupid was my ex-wife, and generally only then when I used two- and three-sylable words in her presence.

Why don’t you just answer the damn question? Nobody cares (at least, I don’t) how many women you’ve alienated. J.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily. I’m genuinely sorry to see you go, Anders.  Your posts have nearly always been cogent and helpful.  Unfortunately, for some reason you occasionally felt it necessary to pass an insult when you disagreed with me.  I was particularly distressed to see you voice an implied accusation of Mccarthyism, which you did back in April.  Although I was upset by what I consider a serious and uncalled for insult, I purposely made no mention of your gentlemanly behaviour, hoping that it was just a temporary thing.  Lately you have fallen to using other phrases that are insulting to me and I’m sure to others in this newsgroup.  Only after your most recent insult to me, did I finally object in public about your behaviour.

Jim, you are a schmuck. I’m genuinely sorry to see you go, Anders.  

Sure Jim, sure.

Response:

Jordan Bigel wrote Jim, you are a schmuck.

I second that.  Emphatically. Mark

Response:

Jordan Bigel shows what a FINE human being he is with: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily. I’m genuinely sorry to see you go, Anders.  Your posts have nearly always been cogent and helpful.  Unfortunately, for some reason you occasionally felt it necessary to pass an insult when you disagreed with me.  I was particularly distressed to see you voice an implied accusation of Mccarthyism, which you did back in April.  Although I was upset by what I consider a serious and uncalled for insult, I purposely made no mention of your gentlemanly behaviour, hoping that it was just a temporary thing.  Lately you have fallen to using other phrases that are insulting to me and I’m sure to others in this newsgroup.  Only after your most recent insult to me, did I finally object in public about your behaviour. Jim, you are a schmuck. I’m genuinely sorry to see you go, Anders.   Sure Jim, sure.

Jordy,  Anders was a crotchity old guy who a.) knew a lot of things that were true, b.) knew a lot of things that weren’t true, and c.) didn’t take kindly to disagreement.  Because of a.) above, I wish he would stay.  Because of  b.) above, he needed watching.  Because of c.) above, he was exaspirating. Now, re: your remark about Jim "Jim, you are a schmuck", we all feel you fit in the b.) and c.) catagories above.  As far as a.) above goes, if you were to leave I can’t imagine anyone would they were sorry to see you go. Jordy, you gotta contribute something from the a.) group, okay??

Response:

Jordy,  Anders was a crotchity old guy who a.) knew a lot of things that were true, b.) knew a lot of things that weren’t true, and c.) didn’t take kindly to disagreement.  Because of a.) above, I wish he would stay. Because of  b.) above, he needed watching.  Because of c.) above, he was exaspirating. Now, re: your remark about Jim "Jim, you are a schmuck", we all feel you fit in the b.) and c.) catagories above.  As far as a.) above goes, if you were to leave I can’t imagine anyone would they were sorry to see you go.

I’m heartbroken. Really. Jordy,  Anders was a crotchity old guy who a.) knew a lot of things that

I don’t think he’s DEAD yet. J.

Response:

After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily.

Anders-Eivor, Like everyone else in this group who I do take seriously I’m sure gonna miss you. I just wish I understood what the big deal is, all of a sudden. So, Jim and Jax called you names? Neal once put you on his Hall of Shame list? Larry Flint and McDiarmid used to question your ancestry? Whow, man, what other proof do you need that you are nearly always on the right track!! Wear your decorations with pride. You can no more change these hapless denizens than you can make the train safer by removing the last car… Just avoid sitting in it for hours when you don’t really need to! Fishmeal is right, a break ‘ll do you good. Ever been thinking about a really long sailing trip? If so, I hope to meet you in the Pacific someday. Just keep your sails full and by! Flying Dutchman Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Terry Schell  writes: <snip I’m genuinely sorry to see you go, Anders.  Your posts have nearly always been cogent and helpful. Unfortunately, for some reason you occasionally felt it necessary to pass an insult when you disagreed with me.  I was particularly distressed to see you voice an implied accusation of Mccarthyism, which you did back in April.  Although I was upset by what I consider a serious and uncalled for insult, I purposely made no mention of your gentlemanly behaviour, hoping that it was just a temporary thing.  Lately you have fallen to using other phrases that are insulting to me and I’m sure to others in this newsgroup.  Only after your most recent insult to me, did I finally object in public about your behaviour. Couldn’t you just accept his departure without any further defensiveness and insults on your part?

Say, Terry, I found Anders to a be bit crusty myself.  It wasn’t that he didn’t know things — he did — it was just that he also knew a few things that weren’t true as well.  Sometimes, he didn’t seem to kindly to disagreement. Still, I wished he stayed

Response:

JAXAshby wrote Jordy,  Anders was a crotchity old guy who a.) knew a lot of things that were true, b.) knew a lot of things that weren’t true, and c.) didn’t take kindly to disagreement.  Because of a.) above, I wish he would stay.  Because of  b.) above, he needed watching.  Because of c.) above, he was exaspirating.

Jax, YOU are a schmuck.  You have repeated these slanderous statements about Anders far too many times here.  Why don’t you just give it a god damn rest, huh? Now, re: your remark about Jim "Jim, you are a schmuck", we all feel you

fit in the b.) and c.) catagories above. Since when did you have the right to say how "we all feel"?  Mighty damned arrogant of you, IMO. As far as a.) above goes, if you were to leave I can’t imagine anyone would they were sorry to see you go.

Well, what you can and can’t imagine is perhaps best left for you and no one else.  I, for one, WOULD be sorry. I have been around this newsgroup for a number of years now.  I can recall Anders participating over a very long period of time.  Same with Jordan.  I don’t recall you being around, or Jim, during that time.  Maybe you were, I don’t know.  If you were, you weren’t as memorable as Anders and Jordan, to me anyway.  So get off your god damn high horse and stop acting like you own this newsgroup.  And (if you can manage it) stop attacking other participants.  Jeez, before you know it I’ll have half the damn participants in this rapidly declining group in filters. Sincerely, Mark Lane Jordy, you gotta contribute something from the a.) group, okay??

What a ridiculous statement.  Shows no knowledge whatsoever regarding the history of this group — in addition to the other things it shows, which hardly warrant further comment.

Response:

<snip Jordy,  Anders was a crotchity old guy who a.) knew a lot of things that were true, b.) knew a lot of things that weren’t true, and c.) didn’t take kindly to disagreement.  

<snip Jax, this could be said about every single participant in this newsgroup. We all have opinions; we all have some basis for those opinions; we all make errors; we don’t like it when other disagree with us. I don’t see how this justifies Jim’s "you got what was coming to you / I haven’t done anything wrong / I am the real victim here" response. Honestly, what were those comments supposed to achieve except provide an outlet for non-constructive criticism (Anders wasn’t even around to hear it) and to demonstrate extreme defensiveness?   Where I come from, comments like those are considered poor form.  Anyone making comments like those should expect others to toss some mild insults in their direction.

Response:

Jordy, Anders was a crotchity old guy who a.) knew a lot of things that were true, b.) knew a lot of things that weren’t true, and c.) didn’t take kindly to disagreement. Because of a.) above, I wish he would stay. Because of b.) above, he needed watching. Because of c.) above, he was exaspirating.

As if NOBODY else here matches that description. Now, re: your remark about Jim "Jim, you are a schmuck", we all feel …

Speak for yourself, please.

Response:

After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily.

I’m genuinely sorry to see you go, Anders.  Your posts have nearly always been cogent and helpful.  Unfortunately, for some reason you occasionally felt it necessary to pass an insult when you disagreed with me.  I was particularly distressed to see you voice an implied accusation of Mccarthyism, which you did back in April.  Although I was upset by what I consider a serious and uncalled for insult, I purposely made no mention of your gentlemanly behaviour, hoping that it was just a temporary thing.  Lately you have fallen to using other phrases that are insulting to me and I’m sure to others in this newsgroup.  Only after your most recent insult to me, did I finally object in public about your behaviour. Jim Manzari

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily. I am fully aware that I have been *very* active, perhaps too active, some might say…  :-) I regret to say that it hasn’t been mostly fun (because it has), but I also think that there must be an end to all good things. So, you will hear a lot less from me in the future. To all the good people here, I say thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts with me, and thanks for listening to my rants. I also hope that some of my factual contributions have been useful to some degree for someone. At least for me, just being around has been fun. Therefore, I wish  "Fresh Breezes" and "Bon Voyage" to all !

A great loss to us all. We hope you’ll reconsider in time…

Response:

Sorry to see you go Anders.  I hope you’re not leaving because of the small but vocal percentage of people who can make one’s life miserable. if you ever find yourself in Montreal, drop me a line, and we’ll go for a sail. — Matt Koch PY26, "Mischief"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily. I am fully aware that I have been *very* active, perhaps too active, some might say…  :-) I regret to say that it hasn’t been mostly fun (because it has), but I also think that there must be an end to all good things. So, you will hear a lot less from me in the future. To all the good people here, I say thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts with me, and thanks for listening to my rants. I also hope that some of my factual contributions have been useful to some degree for someone. At least for me, just being around has been fun. Therefore, I wish  "Fresh Breezes" and "Bon Voyage" to all ! — Anders Svensson

Response:

<snip I’m genuinely sorry to see you go, Anders.  Your posts have nearly always been cogent and helpful. Unfortunately, for some reason you occasionally felt it necessary to pass an insult when you disagreed with me.  I was particularly distressed to see you voice an implied accusation of Mccarthyism, which you did back in April.  Although I was upset by what I consider a serious and uncalled for insult, I purposely made no mention of your gentlemanly behaviour, hoping that it was just a temporary thing.  Lately you have fallen to using other phrases that are insulting to me and I’m sure to others in this newsgroup.  Only after your most recent insult to me, did I finally object in public about your behaviour.

Couldn’t you just accept his departure without any further defensiveness and insults on your part?

Response:

Exactly what I was afraid of. Anders, even though I rarely post I nearly

always read a thread that you’re involved in. I appreciate your comments and experience.  [snip] Hear, hear. I agree completely.  [snip]

Me, too.  What they said.  Anders, ignore the jerks.  Just don’t engage them.  That was your mistake.  Once they start in with the insults and so forth, just say, "I’m done with you," and move on.  And if they continue to hound you, use a filter.  It works quite nicely. I have often espoused my theory that newsgroups should be treated like dinner parties.  You don’t always know the guests.  Sometimes you don’t like them.  Sometimes subjects come up that probably shouldn’t, and sometimes you just can’t seem to stop it.  The best approach is always to just maintain civility and be as polite as you can.  If every one else is discussing a difficult subject, breathe deep and join in, to the extent necessary, but don’t get emotional.  It’s really easy to do when you are in a room full of people, looking them in the eye.  Then again, there is occasionally the guest who just doesn’t have any social skills at all, or who drinks too much, and gets out of hand. . . and sometimes you have to actually make someone leave.  Or, more often, there is just a quiet, concerted effort to ignore them. The people who come onto newsgroups and act like jerks just don’t have any social skills.  They are never invited to a dinner party more than once by the same host, or any of the same guests, because it is really easy to tell that they are just . . . well, not up to snuff.  But here, you can’t control their presence.  Here is where they get back at all the guests who were cold to them, all the high school girls who shunned them, all the guys who didn’t hang with them. . . .  They’re pathetic, but the only solution is to ignore them.  Or (using a filter) make them leave.  Unless, of course, they start acting decent. . . then, unlike most of the rest of the world, they might actually be given a real chance.  Funny, most of them blow it. Hang in there, Anders. Mark Lane

Response:

: After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the : discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little : retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear : regularily. : I am fully aware that I have been *very* active, perhaps too active, : some might say…  :-) I regret to say that it hasn’t been mostly fun : (because it has), but I also think that there must be an end to all good : things. So, you will hear a lot less from me in the future. : To all the good people here, I say thanks for sharing your ideas and : thoughts with me, and thanks for listening to my rants. I also hope that : some of my factual contributions have been useful to some degree for : someone. : At least for me, just being around has been fun. : Therefore, I wish  "Fresh Breezes" and "Bon Voyage" to all ! Speaking for myself – we’ll miss you Anders – that’s more than I can say for some of the posters here! Geoff —     Geoff  Blake    geoff (at) palaemon . demon . co . uk     linux 2.0.36     Please, only use the  .ampr.org address if you know what you are doing       Intel create faster processors – Microsoft create slower processes

Response:

    …but I also think that there must be an end to all good     things. So, you will hear a lot less from me in the future. A break is a good thing. I’m sure you’ll be back, but meanwhile, if you’re ever in the San Francisco area, be sure to stop by Berkeley YC for a Friday night race. — http://www.well.com/~pk/fishmeal.html                                               -"Call me Fishmeal"-

Response:

After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily. I am fully aware that I have been *very* active, perhaps too active, some might say…  :-) I regret to say that it hasn’t been mostly fun (because it has), but I also think that there must be an end to all good things. So, you will hear a lot less from me in the future.

Say it ain’t so, Anders.

Response:

Exactly what I was afraid of. Anders, even though I rarely post I nearly always read a thread that you’re involved in. I appreciate your comments and experience. If you’re phasing out the newsgroup because you want to focus your attention somewhere else, well, I’m sorry but I understand. But I hope you’re not turning elsewhere because of comments made here. –sg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily. I am fully aware that I have been *very* active, perhaps too active, some might say…  :-) I regret to say that it hasn’t been mostly fun (because it has), but I also think that there must be an end to all good things. So, you will hear a lot less from me in the future. To all the good people here, I say thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts with me, and thanks for listening to my rants. I also hope that some of my factual contributions have been useful to some degree for someone. At least for me, just being around has been fun. Therefore, I wish  "Fresh Breezes" and "Bon Voyage" to all ! — Anders Svensson

– Digital Productions: http://stevegoldfarb.com/ For fun: http://stevegoldfarb.com/sandbox/

Response:

Exactly what I was afraid of. Anders, even though I rarely post I nearly always read a thread that you’re involved in. I appreciate your comments and experience. If you’re phasing out the newsgroup because you want to focus your attention somewhere else, well, I’m sorry but I understand. But I hope you’re not turning elsewhere because of comments made here.

Hear, hear. I agree completely. Anders has proven himself time and again to be one of the most reasonable, knowledgable, and (IMHO, completely a subjective evaluation) entertaining contributor to this newsgroup. It’s guys like him that make this a true resource and not just a yada-yada circle jerk. Anders, promise you’ll come to visit sometime! Fresh Breezes- Doug King — This is what we look like when we’re at our best: http://freehosting.at.webjump.com/ei/eisboch-webjump/45.htm

Response:

After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily. I am fully aware that I have been *very* active, perhaps too active, some might say…  :-) I regret to say that it hasn’t been mostly fun (because it has), but I also think that there must be an end to all good things. So, you will hear a lot less from me in the future. To all the good people here, I say thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts with me, and thanks for listening to my rants. I also hope that some of my factual contributions have been useful to some degree for someone. At least for me, just being around has been fun. Therefore, I wish  "Fresh Breezes" and "Bon Voyage" to all ! — Anders Svensson

Response:

Makes sense. Among other things I’m running out of season, and I’ve got plenty to do that doesn’t revolve around having our resident MSD expert try to flush their toilets in my face. — — Isn’t it time we started putting KIDS first?  See the above URL for a plan to do exactly that! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -After the latest debate with Jim, and after looking at some of the discussions that has taken place lately, I have been looking a little retrospectively at this NG, its threads and the topics that appear regularily. I am fully aware that I have been *very* active, perhaps too active, some might say…  :-) I regret to say that it hasn’t been mostly fun (because it has), but I also think that there must be an end to all good things. So, you will hear a lot less from me in the future. To all the good people here, I say thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts with me, and thanks for listening to my rants. I also hope that some of my factual contributions have been useful to some degree for someone. At least for me, just being around has been fun. Therefore, I wish  "Fresh Breezes" and "Bon Voyage" to all ! — Anders Svensson

Response:

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