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Guns Blazing

Question:

A long time ago, in a newsgroup far, far away… tsntan…@aol.com (TSntana97) wrote: >I agree with you, Steve.  Still, though, I often wonder if somebody "does >something" if they’ll do the *right thing*.  Will they ever really develop an >understanding of the things these "maniacs/psychos/sociopaths/etc…whatever >they’re calling them now" have to experience just about everyday of their >lives?  In the eyes of any other person, it was a shooting.  An act of murder. >By a gunman.  After revenge.  Loved ones were injured or killed.  There’s >little room for "open mindedness" after an incident like this happens.  If >anything is do be "done", it would require an understanding of how teasing and >bullying could cause someone to commit murder.  And even if someone *does* end >up doing something, we would probably end up with ridiculous laws that would >most likely rival our existing sexual harrassment laws (my opinion, of course).

I agree completely. The way to reduce the number of these incidents is to understand why it happens rather than try to stop it from happening by "brute force". — Qui-Gon Jinn & Tonic :) It will be a hard life. One without reward, without remorse, without regret. A path will be placed before you, The choice is yours alone. Do what you think you cannot do. It will be a hard life. But you will find out… who you are. – Qui-Gon Jinn

Response:

Adrian Jackson (n…@spam.com) wrote:

: So she was saying it was okay her son got shot? No, she wasn’t saying it was okay – but her speech was in a larger context of why suffering and evil exists in this world, and she was using this an example to share some of what she went through (after quite a lot of grieving I imagine).  I have the video of the entire speech on the web, actually, I can give you the address if you wish. Steve

Response:

Steve Ruelle <strue…@interchange.ubc.ca> wrote:

: This is probably old news by now, but I read in the paper this afternoon : about a shooting in California done by a skinny teenager who wanted to : take revenge for being taunted in school. : What surprised me, and also amazed me, was that the reaction from peers : and parents was almost identical to the Columbine shooting.  Although I : doubt the pre-meditation and planning was anything like that in Colorado, : and also the weaponry was pretty simple (just a kid with a .22)  ’I can’t : believe this happened’ and ‘why would something like this happen in our : town’ comments were pretty surprising to hear, especially in lieu : of the Columbine shooting. Surprising?  How many schools are there?  Thousands.  How many shootings? 3 or 4 in the last 3 or 4 years.  It is not a common occurrence, and people are rightfully surprised when it happens.  It is more common than it should be, but it is by no means common. Stephen

Response:

step…@nomail.msu.edu wrote:

: Surprising?  How many schools are there?  Thousands.  How many shootings? : 3 or 4 in the last 3 or 4 years.  It is not a common occurrence, and : people are rightfully surprised when it happens.  It is more common than : it should be, but it is by no means common. I did mention later on in the post how most schools don’t have kids going around shooting people, and thus these incidents are in the minority, to dovetail with your reply.  But, the main point was that we should, as a society, *learn* from these tragic incidents that *do* happen, so as to take action to make our schools a safer and friendlier place for students, teachers, and administrative staff.  It’s mainly a systemic issue, or a social/political issue, I suppose I’m trying to say. Steve

Response:

strue…@interchange.ubc.ca  (Steve Ruelle) wrote in article <983oo0$r3…@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is probably old news by now, but I read in the paper this afternoon > about a shooting in California done by a skinny teenager who wanted to > take revenge for being taunted in school. > What surprised me, and also amazed me, was that the reaction from peers > and parents was almost identical to the Columbine shooting.  Although I > doubt the pre-meditation and planning was anything like that in Colorado, > and also the weaponry was pretty simple (just a kid with a .22)  ’I can’t > believe this happened’ and ‘why would something like this happen in our > town’ comments were pretty surprising to hear, especially in lieu > of the Columbine shooting. > No doubt this kid did something really stupid, and hurt many innocent > people, that’s for sure.  But I think it’s important to be able to learn > socially from these shootings, as painful as they are, because they are > bound to repeat again – especially if people keep acting so surprised > about it like they did in San Diego.  Whether it’s gun control, > social and cultural education, alternative schooling, more > open-mindedness of personal difference, social action, political change, > or a combination of the above, *something* needs to be done, as opposed to > shoving it under the rug and pretending ‘it won’t happen in my town’.

I agree with you, Steve.  Still, though, I often wonder if somebody "does something" if they’ll do the *right thing*.  Will they ever really develop an understanding of the things these "maniacs/psychos/sociopaths/etc…whatever they’re calling them now" have to experience just about everyday of their lives?  In the eyes of any other person, it was a shooting.  An act of murder. By a gunman.  After revenge.  Loved ones were injured or killed.  There’s little room for "open mindedness" after an incident like this happens.  If anything is do be "done", it would require an understanding of how teasing and bullying could cause someone to commit murder.  And even if someone *does* end up doing something, we would probably end up with ridiculous laws that would most likely rival our existing sexual harrassment laws (my opinion, of course). T.S.

Response:

Steve Ruelle <strue…@interchange.ubc.ca> wrote: : step…@nomail.msu.edu wrote:

: : Surprising?  How many schools are there?  Thousands.  How many shootings? : : 3 or 4 in the last 3 or 4 years.  It is not a common occurrence, and : : people are rightfully surprised when it happens.  It is more common than : : it should be, but it is by no means common. : I did mention later on in the post how most schools don’t have kids : going around shooting people, and thus these incidents are in the : minority, to dovetail with your reply.  But, the main point was that we : should, as a society, *learn* from these tragic incidents that *do* : happen, so as to take action to make our schools a safer and friendlier : place for students, teachers, and administrative staff.  It’s mainly a : systemic issue, or a social/political issue, I suppose I’m trying to say. : Steve I hope though that we continue to be surprised and shocked by these events (not that they continue to happen, but that when they do happen, we are surprised and shocked).  As someone said elsewhere in this thread, I worry about the overreaction to these events.  Not every troubled teen is a potential murderer, but taking that pessimistic view may be part of the effort to make sure that everyone is safe. It’s one of those fine line things.   I am not trying to argue, and I am not feeling particularly articulate at the moment.  Maybe I’ll take this thread up again later. Stephen

Response:

On 6 Mar 2001 22:35:44 GMT, strue…@interchange.ubc.ca (Steve Ruelle) wrote: >This is probably old news by now, but I read in the paper this afternoon >about a shooting in California done by a skinny teenager who wanted to >take revenge for being taunted in school.

Isn’t that the number one warning sign of school violence?  A "scrawny" kids gets picked on, and authorities do nothing to stop it? :) >On an aside note, this reminds me of something we were talking about back >at the Urbana conference last Dec. regarding suffering and why people do >such evil things.  One extremely insightful response came from a woman >whose son had been shot in Mexico while on a missions trip.  To the >question of ‘why suffering?’ her response was ‘why not’.  

So she was saying it was okay her son got shot?

Response:

This is probably old news by now, but I read in the paper this afternoon about a shooting in California done by a skinny teenager who wanted to take revenge for being taunted in school. What surprised me, and also amazed me, was that the reaction from peers and parents was almost identical to the Columbine shooting.  Although I doubt the pre-meditation and planning was anything like that in Colorado, and also the weaponry was pretty simple (just a kid with a .22)  ’I can’t believe this happened’ and ‘why would something like this happen in our town’ comments were pretty surprising to hear, especially in lieu of the Columbine shooting. No doubt this kid did something really stupid, and hurt many innocent people, that’s for sure.  But I think it’s important to be able to learn socially from these shootings, as painful as they are, because they are bound to repeat again – especially if people keep acting so surprised about it like they did in San Diego.  Whether it’s gun control, social and cultural education, alternative schooling, more open-mindedness of personal difference, social action, political change, or a combination of the above, *something* needs to be done, as opposed to shoving it under the rug and pretending ‘it won’t happen in my town’. On an aside note, this reminds me of something we were talking about back at the Urbana conference last Dec. regarding suffering and why people do such evil things.  One extremely insightful response came from a woman whose son had been shot in Mexico while on a missions trip.  To the question of ‘why suffering?’ her response was ‘why not’.  To be honest, and I agree with her, we all have some personal responsibility for the injustices in the world, it’s not all ‘them’ or ‘out there’ – and ackowledgment of this is key. But the good part is that there is so much more in terms of pleasure and joy when contrasted to suffering, i.e. the world is not all evil, there aren’t psyco kids going around with guns in every school, nor are there evil schemers lurking on every corner.  It’s like taking the good with the bad, but there’s a lot more good than bad.  But at the same time, ackowledment of the reality of shootings and pain, even in a cosy small suburb in California, is a healthy first step.     There, that’s my social commentary for the day.  Now back to doing that studying that I was procrastinating about. Steve

Response:

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