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here we go again..

Question:

Hey all.. Well SO called BM last night to make sure everything was ok for the weekend, and first he asked her about the extra day she had already agreed to <two weeks ago> for SO’s work Xmas party. She says "Hang on, I’ll check the calendar’ and lo and behold, its the day of her sister’s wedding! Well, thats the kind of event that comes out of nowhere, isn’t it! Then he asked how SK was doing – "terrible, he’s been in trouble at school for fighting, he’s had to go to the focus room, he’s been disobedient, he punched a kid in the face…" she goes on about this for a couple of minutes – mainly about how the first week was *really* terrible – and then says "But he’s settling down now" – am I wrong to take that as – you’ve disrupted him, its affected his behaviour for the last couple of weeks, and now you’re going to do it again – and by the way its not MY fault at all, its all yours. Probably I am.. but I feel in my heart that is what she really means. She mentioned that SK was going to the counsellor today – well SO and I have just had an enormous fight about calling her today to find out what happened. I wanted him to call so that when we go to pick up tomorrow, we can grab and run, and SK does not have to be embarrassed in front of us like she always does, and he refused to call because it would "piss her off’ – I have tried to explain that he has every right to call.. but its like talking to a brick wall. I am so sick of BM. How dare she keep making SK go to that school when he’s getting into fights all the time and all the other stuff thats happened too. Doesn’t she care about him? Then she keeps giving us things with one hand, and taking it back with the other. Once she agrees on something with us, she always goes back on it closer to the date. She’s probably sitting there laughing at us because we never challenge her on it. In exchange for that day she’s just cancelled, we gave her half of Xmas day – which she had already said we could have *all* of because it was Nanna’s last Xmas. Then she said she didn’t think it would be fair for her family not to see SK, so how about we have an extra day and she can have half the day back. Now she’s taken the extra day back! So what – do we take the whole of Xmas back? Anyway, I got really upset last night and tonight I am numb – this and a few other things going on have all just added up into too much for me to handle at the moment. SO keeps apologising, but I don’t want him to be sorry, I want him to *DO* something about it. What do I want him to do? Maybe grow a backbone and stand up for his rights every now and then. He does actually have some and I keep telling him, but he does not believe me. Mel ————————————————— Melissa Torresan sm…@crosswinds.net —————————————————

Response:

Mel – I am so sorry to hear this! I understand EXACTLY how you feel – after putting up with BM changing thigs on her whims and not caring how it affects us … My first Thanksgiving with DH was 2 days before we got married.  We wanted all of the SK’s to be present at our wedding (we had physical custody of three out of four at the time).  My MIL was willing to pick up oldest SD and bring her down when she came – the day before Thanksgiving.  BM stated absolutley NOT.  She said she didn’t want to spend Thanksgiving with ALL of her kids gone so SD couldn’t ceom for Thanksgiving.  Was UNWILLING to buy her a bus/plane ticket to send her the following day.  TOLD SD WE HAD SAID SD WAS UNWELCOME AT THE WEDDING. And has maintained this for the past 4 years. *sigh* If only we could force DH and BM to step back and LOOK at what they do the kids …….. *shrug* — Cat Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Mel, This is the area I was trying to warn you about with all my posts about how involved you were with BM. I’ve had the same feelings about my DH, and a lot of times, what’s so frustrating is that they’re saying, "I’m so sorry, I wish there was something I could do," and you’re there with a list of things they could do!! And it seems like they must not want to make you feel better very badly if all it would take is a simple phone call to BM. I used to tell DH, "What would make me feel better is if you yelled at her the way you yell at me!"  :D I think the thing is that DH’s are never going to *want* to call BMs on the phone except in highly specialized situations. My DH *never* looks forward to talking to BM, he postpones it as long as possible no matter how crazy that makes me. And all this stupid bullshit, the "wedding" that comes out of nowhere, the "I’ll check the calendar" about a day you agreed on months ago, our BM’s "mouth surgery" on the day we brought our new son home… it’s all stuff that, IMHO, could be avoided if DH didn’t roll over and play dead. He used to get off the phone and I’d say, "Bend over honey, she didn’t really fuck you QUITE far enough up the ass, did she?" Of course, that was the old, crude me. I’m reformed now. The only thing that even started to make the situation better here was when I backed off and stopped telling him what should be going on. If SD wasn’t coming for Thanksgiving because BM was yanking her out of school for ten days, I’d say, "Huh. Okay, I’ll set one less place." If he went to drop SD off and sat in BM’s driveway for two hours, I’d just not even mention it. And having given him room to feel *his* feelings about what was going on, he’s decided the things he needs to take a stand on and the things he doesn’t. The things he does are few and far between. And it’s his child, and if that’s how he wants to run things, then that’s got to be fine with me. Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Melissa Torresan wrote: > Anyway, I got really upset last night and tonight I am numb – this and > a few other things going on have all just added up into too much for > me to handle at the moment. SO keeps apologising, but I don’t want him > to be sorry, I want him to *DO* something about it. What do I want him > to do? Maybe grow a backbone and stand up for his rights every now and > then. He does actually have some and I keep telling him, but he does > not believe me.

Response:

I have to agree with Anne.  Why make yourself so miserable Mel?  If this Christmas stuff is not a big deal to DH, then let it go.  If it was a big deal he would (excuse me everyone) grow some balls and stand up for himself. Mel, all you are doing in stressing yourself over stuff that is never ever going to get better no matter how much you try.  DH is going to have to break himself free from BM and make damn sure she knows that he does have say in his child’s life. You have your own battles to fight, quit fighting his!!! Dana — I’m out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message… Anne Robotti <robo…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:3818809A.F3ED9D43@worldnet.att.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Mel, > This is the area I was trying to warn you about with all my posts about > how involved you were with BM. I’ve had the same feelings about my DH, > and a lot of times, what’s so frustrating is that they’re saying, "I’m > so sorry, I wish there was something I could do," and you’re there with > a list of things they could do!! And it seems like they must not want > to make you feel better very badly if all it would take is a simple > phone call to BM. I used to tell DH, "What would make me feel better is > if you yelled at her the way you yell at me!"  :D > I think the thing is that DH’s are never going to *want* to call BMs on > the phone except in highly specialized situations. My DH *never* looks > forward to talking to BM, he postpones it as long as possible no matter > how crazy that makes me. And all this stupid bullshit, the "wedding" > that comes out of nowhere, the "I’ll check the calendar" about a day > you agreed on months ago, our BM’s "mouth surgery" on the day we brought > our new son home… it’s all stuff that, IMHO, could be avoided if DH > didn’t roll over and play dead. He used to get off the phone and I’d > say, "Bend over honey, she didn’t really fuck you QUITE far enough up > the ass, did she?" Of course, that was the old, crude me. I’m reformed > now. > The only thing that even started to make the situation better here was > when I backed off and stopped telling him what should be going on. If > SD wasn’t coming for Thanksgiving because BM was yanking her out of > school for ten days, I’d say, "Huh. Okay, I’ll set one less place." If > he went to drop SD off and sat in BM’s driveway for two hours, I’d just > not even mention it. And having given him room to feel *his* feelings > about what was going on, he’s decided the things he needs to take a > stand on and the things he doesn’t. The things he does are few and far > between. And it’s his child, and if that’s how he wants to run things, > then that’s got to be fine with me. > Anne > Melissa Torresan wrote: > > Anyway, I got really upset last night and tonight I am numb – this and > > a few other things going on have all just added up into too much for > > me to handle at the moment. SO keeps apologising, but I don’t want him > > to be sorry, I want him to *DO* something about it. What do I want him > > to do? Maybe grow a backbone and stand up for his rights every now and > > then. He does actually have some and I keep telling him, but he does > > not believe me.

Response:

Anne wrote: > He used to get off the phone and I’d say, "Bend over honey, she didn’t really

fuck you QUITE far enough up the ass, did she?" Of course, that was the old, crude me. I’m reformed now. If you don’t mind, as I am far over being refined and am looking for a crude side, I will borrow this line the next time my husband talks to his ex-wife.   I agree with what Anne has pointed out here — these men have a very hard time dealing with the BM’s.  My husband would rather roll over and play dead than talk to her, especially if he’s supposed to confront her behavior.  When he has done so, it has been because I have told him that I feel like it is more important for him to keep the peace with the BM than to keep peace at home. Didi Mother to Caitlin, 10, Patrick, 8, Meagan, 5, and Step-mother to Kayla, 7. "A dead thing can go with a stream, only a living thing can go against it." G.K. Chesterton

Response:

On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:45:49 GMT, sm…@crosswinds.net (Melissa Torresan) wrote:

Hi Mel, >Well SO called BM last night to make sure everything was ok for the >weekend, and first he asked her about the extra day she had already >agreed to <two weeks ago> for SO’s work Xmas party. She says "Hang on, >I’ll check the calendar’ and lo and behold, its the day of her >sister’s wedding! Well, thats the kind of event that comes out of >nowhere, isn’t it!

I agree that a wedding isn’t just something that comes out of nowhere… I’d tend not to believe this line if I was handed it by BM. >Then he asked how SK was doing – "terrible, he’s been in trouble at >school for fighting, he’s had to go to the focus room, he’s been >disobedient, he punched a kid in the face…" she goes on about this >for a couple of minutes – mainly about how the first week was *really* >terrible – and then says "But he’s settling down now" – am I wrong to >take that as – you’ve disrupted him, its affected his behaviour for >the last couple of weeks, and now you’re going to do it again – and by >the way its not MY fault at all, its all yours. Probably I am.. but I >feel in my heart that is what she really means.

Why read more into that than may possibly be the case? I mean, granted, SK fighting, etc… not good. But don’t worry yourself with "Why is BM blaming this on ME???" It’s not worth it. It’s only going to cause you unnecessary stress and worry. >She mentioned that SK was going to the counsellor today – well SO and >I have just had an enormous fight about calling her today to find out >what happened. I wanted him to call so that when we go to pick up >tomorrow, we can grab and run, and SK does not have to be embarrassed >in front of us like she always does, and he refused to call because it >would "piss her off’ – I have tried to explain that he has every right >to call.. but its like talking to a brick wall.

How about you and DH talking to this counselor and asking her to call you and communicate after these appointments. I’m sure she’d be more than willing. >I am so sick of BM. How dare she keep making SK go to that school when >he’s getting into fights all the time and all the other stuff thats >happened too. Doesn’t she care about him? Then she keeps giving us >things with one hand, and taking it back with the other. Once she >agrees on something with us, she always goes back on it closer to the >date. She’s probably sitting there laughing at us because we never >challenge her on it.

Fighting isn’t going to change… regardless of the school. I know about the other incident… and I would be very unhappy, too… but as far as the fighting goes… kids fight. >In exchange for that day she’s just cancelled, we gave her half of >Xmas day – which she had already said we could have *all* of because >it was Nanna’s last Xmas. Then she said she didn’t think it would be >fair for her family not to see SK, so how about we have an extra day >and she can have half the day back. Now she’s taken the extra day >back! So what – do we take the whole of Xmas back?

Do you really want to resort to playing her games? Taking it back? Going back on your word? Just remember what happens next time she asks you and DH to give up YOUR time :) >Anyway, I got really upset last night and tonight I am numb – this and >a few other things going on have all just added up into too much for >me to handle at the moment. SO keeps apologising, but I don’t want him >to be sorry, I want him to *DO* something about it. What do I want him >to do? Maybe grow a backbone and stand up for his rights every now and >then. He does actually have some and I keep telling him, but he does >not believe me.

My SO does the same thing sometimes… refuses to stand up for himself with BM… but I sit down and discuss it with him. Give him my reasons why I would *like it* if he stood up to her. It’s a much easier way to get the point across than to say "Hey. Stop being a doormat. Tell BM no." I hope you get the point, here :) Hugs, Mel… Nicole I have gone looking for myself. If I return before I come back, please let me know I’m looking for myself. Bunny Cam: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5169/whatevercam.html

Response:

Geri and Brian wrote: > You know, this may have something to do with their past relationships with the > BM.  If I remember correctly, there are several of us that have husbands who > were verbally, emotionally and/or physically abused by the respective BM’s > involved.  Having broken themselves free of these women and living in > non-abusive and safe situations for them now, the last thing they want to do is > reopen that door of personal communication.

Geri, I just wanted to say thank you for this observation.  It makes alot of sense to me (fits my DH’s pattern with his Ex) and helps explain DH’s current behaviour with his Ex.  It drives me crazy that he won’t talk to his Ex about simple arrangements with the boys (we have custody of his two boys), but he must feel like he’s putting himself in danger by talking with her.  How sad! Lynn

Response:

>It drives me crazy that he won’t talk to his Ex >about simple arrangements with the boys (we have custody of his two >boys), but he must feel like he’s putting himself in danger by talking >with her.  How sad!

I think it is!  Right now, my husband doesn’t even want to be in the same room with BM for school functions, so I guess we will be missing some things. He wants the restraing orders against her left in place until he has some assurances by her therapist (if she has one) that she is no longer violent. (He read me some statistic that men who come from a relationship where the woman was physically abusive are in as much danger after they move out as when they lived there.) Sad for SD, but understandable. Geri (Chip out the iceberg to reply.) ~~~~~~~~~~ "I only talk seriously on the first Tuesday in every month, from 4PM to 7PM."

Response:

>Just a question Geri . . did your DH also have a domineering/powerful >mother?

Not remotely.  She is a nice lady.  She and my FIL had a great and loving relationship until the day he died (about seven years ago).   I think they were pretty much partners, but MIL is a Southern lady, and a bit old fashioned.  I really like her.   I wish I could have known my father-in-law – he sounds like quite a hoot.  My husband and his dad were buds.  The only thing non-traditional about my husband’s family is that his oldest sister had a different dad – his mom had been previously married for a short while.  But his dad always treated SIL like one of his own children. My husband is not a wuss by any stretch of the imagination, BTW.  He definitely wears the pants in our family (and I am no shrinking violet, as you may have guessed).  We are a little old fashioned that way, I guess, because he is definitely the head of our house, but it works for us. Geri (Chip out the iceberg to reply.) ~~~~~~~~~~ "I only talk seriously on the first Tuesday in every month, from 4PM to 7PM."

Response:

Just a question Geri . . did your DH also have a domineering/powerful mother? Kevin In article <19991029014859.05743.00002…@ng-cb1.aol.com>, Geri and Brian says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I agree with what Anne has pointed out here — these men have a very hard > >time > >dealing with the BM’s.  My husband would rather roll over and play dead than > >talk to her, especially if he’s supposed to confront her behavior. > You know, this may have something to do with their past relationships with the > BM.  If I remember correctly, there are several of us that have husbands who > were verbally, emotionally and/or physically abused by the respective BM’s > involved.  Having broken themselves free of these women and living in > non-abusive and safe situations for them now, the last thing they want to do is > reopen that door of personal communication. > I know my husband will do just about anything to avoid a personal exchange of > SD with BM – he doesn’t even want to look at this woman.  He is still not past > the point where he will stay home from a school activity rather than be in the > same room with her.  (Presumably/hopefully this will change with time.)  I have > offered to do the exchange in his place on some of the holidays, where personal > exchanges are unavoidable. > Geri > (Chip out the iceberg to reply.) > ~~~~~~~~~~ > "I only talk seriously on the first Tuesday in every month, from 4PM to 7PM."

– The big print giveth and the small print taketh away

Response:

Melissa Torresan <sm…@crosswinds.net> wrote in message

news:3819ab4f.16582642@news.bigpond.com… > Mind you, most of the above is stuff SK has told us. Whether it is > 100% true – 50% or 0% we have no way of knowing :( I do think that its > pretty much the truth – heck, why would he lie about deliberately > pooing his pants?

    Possibly, because he thinks it’s what you *want* to hear… BM has never said anything to us about that, BTW. > We’ve sat around in shock since the kids went to bed trying to work > out what to do now.. and we have agreed on these things. > 1. We are not going to say anything to BM about what SK has said. It > will only make things hard for him.     Yes > 2. We are going to take legal advice.     Yes > 3. We are going to organise a one on one session with a CHILD PSYCH > for SK on our time.

    Most definintely yes. > 4. We have asked SK to follow some simple rules for the next couple of > weeks to make sure he does not get into trouble at school or at home.

    If you are making rules make them realistic, make sure you have an objective way to tell if the rules have been followed and make consequences (that you can follow through with) if the rules are not followed. Example: 1) Absolutely no fighting at school.  Avoid situations, places where fights occur.  (This means using the bathroom at an appropriate time!) See a bully coming – go the other way.  2) Establish a routine of communication with the teacher to obtain objective feedback.  Make certain SS knows this is occurring. 3) If he was involved in a fight, he is to sit down and write (or draw pics if he can’t write) the circumstances that led to the fight and what he could have done differently that would have avoided it. > Pigs might fly, right.. > We threw out a few like going to the police right there and then – > spanking is not illegal, and while the name calling is emotionally > abusive, they will not lose custody for it on the spot. Would you > believe *I* had to talk SO out of talking to BM about this? After all > the times I wanted him to.. the one time I know it’s going to do > damage to SK, and he’s wanting to rip her a new asshole TODAY! > Are we doing the right thing? I believe if we tell BM, she will just > threaten SK and he will clam up before we get the chance to get some > kind of neutral person to get the tale from SK himself. We don’t think > he is in *immediate* danger – we think if he stays in the situation > long term it will be harmful, tho. > I know we should report it NOW.. thats probably what ya’all will say..

    I don’t know  a thing about Australian courts.  I have no idea how the above allegations would be taken.  What I do know is that fighting between BM and her DH will be problematic for SS – and this too can be a cause for SS to be acting out.     I really feel for SS – he’s had to go through so many changes in a short time. Merrie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyway.. long weekend ahead.. I’ll try to get some time tomorrow to > answer all the posts :) > Mel > ————————————————— > Melissa Torresan > sm…@crosswinds.net > —————————————————

Response:

>I agree with what Anne has pointed out here — these men have a very hard >time >dealing with the BM’s.  My husband would rather roll over and play dead than >talk to her, especially if he’s supposed to confront her behavior.

You know, this may have something to do with their past relationships with the BM.  If I remember correctly, there are several of us that have husbands who were verbally, emotionally and/or physically abused by the respective BM’s involved.  Having broken themselves free of these women and living in non-abusive and safe situations for them now, the last thing they want to do is reopen that door of personal communication. I know my husband will do just about anything to avoid a personal exchange of SD with BM – he doesn’t even want to look at this woman.  He is still not past the point where he will stay home from a school activity rather than be in the same room with her.  (Presumably/hopefully this will change with time.)  I have offered to do the exchange in his place on some of the holidays, where personal exchanges are unavoidable. Geri (Chip out the iceberg to reply.) ~~~~~~~~~~ "I only talk seriously on the first Tuesday in every month, from 4PM to 7PM."

Response:

Hi.. Thanks for all the replies, I *will* answer them when I have a little more time. I thought you guys might like to know what came out today. I won’t go into it in-depth, cos its very late and I’m exhausted.. but I will come back to this later on. 1. BM and her SO (HSO) are married – have been for a year, apparently. We find out today thanks to SK. This is news to us! 2. BM has spanked SK more than twice in the last two weeks. 3. BM’s SO has spanked SK more than *FOUR* times – possibly ten, can’t tie SK down to a definate figure because he is too upset ATM, in the last two weeks. Hard spanks, and hitting more than one smack per time – more like five.. BM was not at home when any of these spankings took place. 4. BM and HSO argue at night when SK is sleeping – BM gives SK a full rundown the next day. We asked SK how this makes him feel "I don’t think they will be around much longer" "I think Mum is going to leave soon" 5. BM and HSO call SK "crap-a-daks" because he poos his pants. He was *bawling* so hard I couldn’t make out what he was trying to say. They also feminise his name still. 6. SK poos his pants on purpose because he wants "them to talk to me" – them being BM and HSO, even though he knows it is negative attention. Let me add, we have never *once* had SK poo his pants here. He had a little accident with wees, but that was because he was too excited and didn’t make it on time. He told me that he sits on the floor in his room, does the poo, and then goes out and tells them. 7. BM sits in on the counselling sessions – which is why none of the above stuff has come out. BM told us it was one on one and she was not in the room for it. At counselling yesterday he clammed up and barely said a word according to BM. Mind you, most of the above is stuff SK has told us. Whether it is 100% true – 50% or 0% we have no way of knowing :( I do think that its pretty much the truth – heck, why would he lie about deliberately pooing his pants? BM has never said anything to us about that, BTW. We’ve sat around in shock since the kids went to bed trying to work out what to do now.. and we have agreed on these things. 1. We are not going to say anything to BM about what SK has said. It will only make things hard for him. 2. We are going to take legal advice. 3. We are going to organise a one on one session with a CHILD PSYCH for SK on our time. 4. We have asked SK to follow some simple rules for the next couple of weeks to make sure he does not get into trouble at school or at home. Pigs might fly, right.. We threw out a few like going to the police right there and then – spanking is not illegal, and while the name calling is emotionally abusive, they will not lose custody for it on the spot. Would you believe *I* had to talk SO out of talking to BM about this? After all the times I wanted him to.. the one time I know it’s going to do damage to SK, and he’s wanting to rip her a new asshole TODAY! Are we doing the right thing? I believe if we tell BM, she will just threaten SK and he will clam up before we get the chance to get some kind of neutral person to get the tale from SK himself. We don’t think he is in *immediate* danger – we think if he stays in the situation long term it will be harmful, tho. I know we should report it NOW.. thats probably what ya’all will say.. Anyway.. long weekend ahead.. I’ll try to get some time tomorrow to answer all the posts :) Mel ————————————————— Melissa Torresan sm…@crosswinds.net —————————————————

Response:

On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:58:02 -0400, Anne Robotti <robo…@worldnet.att.net> wrote: >I used to tell DH, "What would make me feel better is >if you yelled at her the way you yell at me!"  :D

hehe Anne… I wish I’d known you more "when" :) Nicole I have gone looking for myself. If I return before I come back, please let me know I’m looking for myself. Bunny Cam: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5169/whatevercam.html

Response:

YES!! How did I leave that out?! Anne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Didi Jakubowski wrote: > > I have told him that I feel like it is more > important for him to keep the peace with the BM than to keep peace at home.

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