Act Acting » Acting School » Is it Better 2 Be Alone or With Someone You Don't Like?

Is it Better 2 Be Alone or With Someone You Don't Like?

Question:

We all (mostly) need to be loved and patching up loneliness with a person you don’t like is totally natural and you probably only need to do it once to realise it’s not a good idea. I’ve been through 2 relationships in 2 years and the last one really was an escapism. Ain’t gonna do that again. It’s not I didn’t like her though just that there was no future in it. Now patching it up with the first :-) Love is out there we’ve just gotta except each other for who we are. Compromise, balance and communication that’s what I think this relationship thing is all about. Seasons greeting to everyone. Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Imran Peerbhai wrote: > Kris (manhattan_by_woody_al…@yahoo.com) wrote: > : I have recently been dumped by my gf.  But like any good man, I didn’t > : let it get me down.  I posted a personal ad and now I have a new > : potential gf on the horizon.  She just got out of a bad relationship. > : Her ex- was incarcerated for attempted murder.  So I come out looking > : like a Clinton-esque ladies man in contrast to him. Let’s just say I’m > : sharpening up the ol’ pocket knife and getting ready to put another > : notch on my bedpost. > : > : But this is not an ideal situation.  Personally I find her to be very > : annoying.  She exhibits a lot of passive-aggressive behavior.  For > : instance I tried to end a phone conversation last night by saying: > : "I’ve gotta go. I want to watch a movie that’s due tomorrow."  She > : accused me of making up excuses so I wouldn’t have to talk to her.  In > : addition we don’t have much in common aside from antipathy toward > : organized religion. > : > : So my question is this.  Is it better to be alone or with someone you > : don’t like?  Personally I am leaning toward the Sydney Pollack-Judy > : Davis philosophy espoused in Woody Allen’s "Husbands and Wives".  Simply > : stated a relationship is more a buffer against loneliness than it is > : about love. > : > : Has anyone tried having a relationship with someone you didn’t like? > : I’ve never made it past the first date with someone I didn’t like.  In > : all instances it was the woman’s choice not mine so I can’t give a > : definite answer. > Been there, Done that. > Haven’t we all been in a relationship where we’re just using somebody to > not be lonely? > Well, I can tell you this.  Don’t do it.  It’s a nightmare waiting for a > dreamer.  It’s worse when you do it right out of a relationship.  It just > is plain and simple a bad idea > : > : — > : Kris > : > : "Mom, sooner or later a man has to face the facts.  And one of the facts > : I got to face is whatever it is women like I ain’t got it.  I’ve chased > : after enough girls, I’ve been to enough dances, I’ve been hurt enough > : and I don’t want to be hurt no more."  -Marty, written by Paddy > : Chayefsky > : > : > : > — > Imran H Peerbhai > http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~peerbhai > peerb…@student.umass.edu

Response:

In article <368190e…@oit.umass.edu>,   peerb…@lessing.oit.umass.edu (Imran Peerbhai) wrote: > Kris (manhattan_by_woody_al…@yahoo.com) wrote: [snip] > : But this is not an ideal situation.  Personally I find her to be very > : annoying.  She exhibits a lot of passive-aggressive behavior.  For > : instance I tried to end a phone conversation last night by saying: > : "I’ve gotta go. I want to watch a movie that’s due tomorrow."  She > : accused me of making up excuses so I wouldn’t have to talk to her.

she can come over and watch the movie with you.. ? > :In addition we don’t have much in common aside from antipathy toward > : organized religion.

he he.. > : So my question is this.  Is it better to be alone or with someone you > : don’t like?

sure, but we’re supposed to be effective making progress toward GETTING someone we DO like!!! so we shouldn’t be pursuing those we don’t like!!! > : > : Has anyone tried having a relationship with someone you didn’t like?

well that would be difficult!!! > Been there, Done that. > Haven’t we all been in a relationship where we’re just using somebody to > not be lonely? > Well, I can tell you this.  Don’t do it.  It’s a nightmare waiting for a > dreamer.  It’s worse when you do it right out of a relationship.  It just > is plain and simple a bad idea

Yes, yes, yes! You’re correct. But no, no, no!!! I agree with others who think we cannot avoid (many) uncomfortable learning experiences. i expect that i’ll have to experience this to get irrational ideas out of my head. And maybe i will put a gal through this kind of horrible relationship with me when i do this, but i guess everyone has to.. Maybe i’m wrong.. c ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

Hey..ohh..stud!! :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Kris wrote: > I have recently been dumped by my gf.  But like any good man, I didn’t > let it get me down.  I posted a personal ad and now I have a new > potential gf on the horizon.  She just got out of a bad relationship. > Her ex- was incarcerated for attempted murder.  So I come out looking > like a Clinton-esque ladies man in contrast to him. Let’s just say I’m > sharpening up the ol’ pocket knife and getting ready to put another > notch on my bedpost. > But this is not an ideal situation.  Personally I find her to be very > annoying.  She exhibits a lot of passive-aggressive behavior.  For > instance I tried to end a phone conversation last night by saying: > "I’ve gotta go. I want to watch a movie that’s due tomorrow."  She > accused me of making up excuses so I wouldn’t have to talk to her.  In > addition we don’t have much in common aside from antipathy toward > organized religion. > So my question is this.  Is it better to be alone or with someone you > don’t like?  Personally I am leaning toward the Sydney Pollack-Judy > Davis philosophy espoused in Woody Allen’s "Husbands and Wives".  Simply > stated a relationship is more a buffer against loneliness than it is > about love. > Has anyone tried having a relationship with someone you didn’t like? > I’ve never made it past the first date with someone I didn’t like.  In > all instances it was the woman’s choice not mine so I can’t give a > definite answer. > — > Kris > "Mom, sooner or later a man has to face the facts.  And one of the facts > I got to face is whatever it is women like I ain’t got it.  I’ve chased > after enough girls, I’ve been to enough dances, I’ve been hurt enough > and I don’t want to be hurt no more."  -Marty, written by Paddy > Chayefsky

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Response:

On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:47:26 -0600, Kris <manhattan_by_woody_al…@yahoo.com> wrote: >like a Clinton-esque ladies man in contrast to him. Let’s just say I’m >sharpening up the ol’ pocket knife and getting ready to put another >notch on my bedpost.

I may puke. >But this is not an ideal situation.  Personally I find her to be very >annoying.  She exhibits a lot of passive-aggressive behavior.  For >instance I tried to end a phone conversation last night by saying: >"I’ve gotta go. I want to watch a movie that’s due tomorrow."  She >accused me of making up excuses so I wouldn’t have to talk to her.  

I’d have accused you of liking the movie more than me. >In >addition we don’t have much in common aside from antipathy toward >organized religion.

And you call THAT a potential relationship?  Ugh. >So my question is this.  Is it better to be alone or with someone you >don’t like?  

Duh.  Alone. >Personally I am leaning toward the Sydney Pollack-Judy >Davis philosophy espoused in Woody Allen’s "Husbands and Wives".  Simply >stated a relationship is more a buffer against loneliness than it is >about love.

Those aren’t called relationships, they’re called relationSHITS.  Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to take me up on that puke offer earlier.

Response:

Blackbile wrote: > >But this is not an ideal situation.  Personally I find her to be very > >annoying.  She exhibits a lot of passive-aggressive behavior.  For > >instance I tried to end a phone conversation last night by saying: > >"I’ve gotta go. I want to watch a movie that’s due tomorrow."  She > >accused me of making up excuses so I wouldn’t have to talk to her. > I’d have accused you of liking the movie more than me.

I’m sorry but I have yet to meet a woman who can compete with a Humphrey Bogart film.  I just find Bogart a lot more interesting than the typical teenage girl bitching about her friends.  Been there, done that. > >So my question is this.  Is it better to be alone or with someone you > >don’t like? > Duh.  Alone. > >Personally I am leaning toward the Sydney Pollack-Judy > >Davis philosophy espoused in Woody Allen’s "Husbands and Wives".  Simply > >stated a relationship is more a buffer against loneliness than it is > >about love. > Those aren’t called relationships, they’re called relationSHITS.  Now > if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to take me up on that puke offer > earlier.

On the surface, it may seem like being alone is preferential to being with someone I don’t like.  However I spent the first 20 years of my life alone, then had a 9 month taste of the good life this year. I’ve spent this month alone and quite frankly it’s beginning to drive me batty. I need someone to be with and hold . . . Let me share a story.  I dress well and am rather effeminate.  In high school parlance, this meant I was a member of the gay community.  One day the other boys were ridiculing me and the gay community even more viciously than usual.  Our Social Studies teacher overheard and told those boys the wisest thing I have ever heard:  "Don’t knock what you haven’t tried." Well, guess what?  I’ve decided to give this "relationSHIT" as you put it a chance.  I’ve never been in one before so how can I knock what I haven’t tried? Oh yeah, I recently saw one of the boys who used to pick on me at college. He introduced his lover to me.  I had a stunned look on my face so he nudged me and said:  "Hey, remember what ol’ Mr.Z said?" "You mean. . . ?" "Yep, don’t knock what you haven’t tried." — Kris "Mom, sooner or later a man has to face the facts.  And one of the facts I got to face is whatever it is women like I ain’t got it.  I’ve chased after enough girls, I’ve been to enough dances, I’ve been hurt enough and I don’t want to be hurt no more."  -Marty, written by Paddy Chayefsky

Response:

In article <36818108.97069…@yahoo.com>,   Kris <manhattan_by_woody_al…@yahoo.com> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have recently been dumped by my gf.  But like any good man, I didn’t > let it get me down.  I posted a personal ad and now I have a new > potential gf on the horizon.  She just got out of a bad relationship. > Her ex- was incarcerated for attempted murder.  So I come out looking > like a Clinton-esque ladies man in contrast to him. Let’s just say I’m > sharpening up the ol’ pocket knife and getting ready to put another > notch on my bedpost. > But this is not an ideal situation.  Personally I find her to be very > annoying.  She exhibits a lot of passive-aggressive behavior.  For > instance I tried to end a phone conversation last night by saying: > "I’ve gotta go. I want to watch a movie that’s due tomorrow."  She > accused me of making up excuses so I wouldn’t have to talk to her.  In > addition we don’t have much in common aside from antipathy toward > organized religion. > So my question is this.  Is it better to be alone or with someone you > don’t like?  Personally I am leaning toward the Sydney Pollack-Judy > Davis philosophy espoused in Woody Allen’s "Husbands and Wives".  Simply > stated a relationship is more a buffer against loneliness than it is > about love. > Has anyone tried having a relationship with someone you didn’t like? > I’ve never made it past the first date with someone I didn’t like.  In > all instances it was the woman’s choice not mine so I can’t give a > definite answer.

It will be interesting if you do go out with this person, since you are both on the rebound.  That could be an even bigger issue than whether you like her or not. Some people jump right into the next relationship, totally pushing the last one out of their mind.  Then later they realize they have unresolved issues about the last one.  Or they aren’t ready to get too close to someone so soon or trust them. In some ways, it is almost better to have the next person be someone who is not totally right for you.  Because if you do have any of these issues, you may end up messing things up anyway.  One of the worst situations I had was when I found someone who seemed so right for me, but I had a lot of issues about the previous guy, & I ended up doing dysfunctional things & messing things up with the new one. ExpressMyself (funny, I originally was going to tell you NOT to go out with someone you don’t like :)  ) ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Blackbile wrote: > On Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:48:25 -0600, Kris > <manhattan_by_woody_al…@yahoo.com> wrote: > >Blackbile wrote: [snip] > >On the surface, it may seem like being alone is preferential to being with > >someone I don’t like.  However I spent the first 20 years of my life alone, > >then had a 9 month taste of the good life this year. I’ve spent this month > >alone and quite frankly it’s beginning to drive me batty. I need someone to > >be with and hold . . . > My taste of the good life happened nine YEARS ago, so I’m well > acquainted with those feelings, as well as the following denial, > depression, hopelessness, depression, acquiescence, depression, > dementia, depression, and eventually a hatred of the very thing you > need.  I’m really not looking forward to what happens after my next > bout of depression. > >Let me share a story.  I dress well and am rather effeminate.  In high school > >parlance, this meant I was a member of the gay community.  One day the other > >boys were ridiculing me and the gay community even more viciously than > >usual.  Our Social Studies teacher overheard and told those boys the wisest > >thing I have ever heard:  "Don’t knock what you haven’t tried." > >Well, guess what?  I’ve decided to give this "relationSHIT" as you put it a > >chance.  I’ve never been in one before so how can I knock what I haven’t > >tried? > I call it a relationSHIT when you’re dating someone JUST because you > don’t want to be alone, because usually in that situation, the > relationship IS shit.  I’ve done it before.  I let a woman treat me > like absolute caca for MONTHS just because I didn’t want to be alone > and I was so afraid that if I lost her I wouldn’t find anyone else.  I > eventually grew a spine and "dumped" her worthless ass, but my > prediction has so far been 100% true–I never found anyone else.

hmm i wonder how far you could have pushed her away from caca treating mode, until she "dumped" you? > >Oh yeah, I recently saw one of the boys who used to pick on me at college. > >He introduced his lover to me.  I had a stunned look on my face so he nudged > >me and said:  "Hey, remember what ol’ Mr.Z said?" > >"You mean. . . ?" > >"Yep, don’t knock what you haven’t tried."

well, .. he was already gay (or bi-ish gay).. He only needed to realize it.. > I’m having a devil of a time figuring out how all this gay stuff ties > into the original thread.

It had to do with the, "so how can I knock what I haven’t tried?" philosophy… devil.. sin… sex… ??

Response:

In article <768sq9$6s…@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,   expressmys…@my-dejanews.com wrote: > In article <765plh$q9…@garfield.vcn.bc.ca>, >   Steve Ruelle <sr…@vcn.bc.ca> wrote: [] > >       – spirituality > >       – non-sexual relationships > >       – career and jobs > >       – personal health and fitness > >       – intellectual fulfillment (university and others) > >       – emotional intelligence > >       – organizational and time management > What’s emotional intelligence?    :)

one of the RARE readable books… has references… Daniel Goleman "Emotional Intelligence" since his book all sorts of books with EQ in the titles… Goleman in the 150’s at your local library. > ANd how can you tell if you have it?

the book gives examples of how ppl handle situations well. > ExpressMyself

C ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

On 28 Dec 1998 18:13:44 GMT, r…@shell.netmagic.net (Robert Maas) wrote: >Whenever you get into that mode, the important guideline is to attack >ONLY people who have done bad.

I like the way you think.  That’s perhaps the first thing I’ve ever read on here that I 100% agree with.  ;)

Response:

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:18:22 GMT, Kris <Manhattan_by_Woody_Al…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Not necessarily.  I always believed all I needed was a gf to make me happy. >This year I had a gf and guess what:  It was by far the happiest year of my >life.

This is also how I felt.  This is also how she felt.  In fact, we felt it to such great magnitude that most of our peers became brutally jealous (especially those we thought were our friends) and abused us until we could no longer endure it and were forced to break up.

Response:

On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:12:57 GMT, sr…@vcn.bc.ca wrote: >Going by your posts as of late (which I’m still trying to catch up on as well >as tons of other reading from last month :-) ) your view of relationships and >women is such that it’ll give you failure.  Whether this happens 1 or 1000 >times isn’t the point.

I have no idea what you’re talking about.  I love those who first love me, and I hate those who first hate me.  I am highly suspicious of everyone else. >> People need affection. >It depends on how you define ‘need’.

I mean if they don’t get it, they get sick (usually mentally). >In my experience, it was *mutual* >physical affection that I really liked, and it’s something that I WANT to >experience again, and am setting myself a goal to achieve this WANT.  Whether >or not it’s a need is debatable.

What was that about arguing semantics? >If you "need" affection from others to make yourself feel more complete, then >Houston we have a problem.  

Why, because I’m human?  Every human needs some kind of affection to make him complete. >If, however, both you and a SO have both gone >through a self-actualization process and have come to know and understand >yourself *authentically* then sharing of affection can be a tremendous >synbergy to the relationship.

Hmm? >> Actually, my only problem is finding a girlfriend.  I’m doing well in >> school, and I can get jobs easily.  I like my body.  I like my mind. >> I’m never bored. >Are you sure??

I haven’t got less than an A in any class for the last three or four semesters.  The first job I ever had was working for double minimum wage.  My body is good to me–it’s even "buff" from certain angles. I’m intelligent.  I *DO* get bored when I’m at the complete mercy of boring people.  I can do NOTHING to prevent that.  When I’m left to my own devices, however, I am ALWAYS entertained. >    You mean to tell me that you have set specific goals for >yourself to succeed in these areas of your life,

I set small goals when I need motivation.  Otherwise, I act spontaneously, and I do well until a dangerous group of people becomes jealous of my progress and sabotages it.  I have no control over the rabid stupidity of others. >and that the ONLY problem >left for you is to find a girlfriend?  

The only problem I have any control over. >If so, have you set yourself a goal >for it??

Yes.  To get her.  Whether I get her consensually or not is the decision of society. >More arguing over semantics.  Whether or not you go into a relationship or >stay in a relationship isn’t the issue here.  What matters is your >*perception* of the relationship;  

The "*perception*" changes as the relationship changes. >namely your belief that you are >"desperate" and expect women to fulfill your needs.

Oh, a man expecting a woman to fulfill his needs.  That’s so WRONG! >> She turned out to be a worthless piece of female garbage who just wanted >> to play games.) >It takes two to tango.      I don’t know the specifics of the relationship, but >from what you’re posting, it sounds like she may have sensed your "weakness" >– that is your belief that you expected her to take care of your needs, and >may have used that to "play games" with you.

Right.  She was worthless.  She was garbage.  Next observation? >Sure, she wasn’t acting with win-win intentions, but neither were you.      The >end result:  lose-lose.

That’s rather silly terminology.  I always start with win-win intentions.  Whether or not I eventually want her to lose is up to her. >It’s dynamic.  Your communication affects her response, which in turn she >communicates to you, and you respond, etc…  If you change an "initial >condition" in this "coupled differential equation" of human relationships then >the interaction takes an entirely different path.  For example, by *showing* >this woman that you care for her as a person (and you can demonstrate this by >touching) that in itself might change the entire relationsip.

I touched her.  She LITERALLY recoiled.

Response:

Hi Steve, Sorry to do this to your reasoned post, but I love it when people take these things as pseudo-questionnaires. I thought I might join in… On 27 Dec 1998 17:10:09 GMT, Steve Ruelle <sr…@vcn.bc.ca> wrote: [snip to the opportunity for some self aggrandisement... hehe!] >    - spirituality

To be honest, I offer God (as conceived of in Anglican terms) my faith if he will deliver me the relationship I desire. When I write it down, it seems pathetic, but when I’m at rock bottom, I amaze myself at what I will believe or be ready to do if I think it offers hope. >    - non-sexual relationships

Strangely enough, I’m doing great here. I’ve made good friends through work (more than just ‘work’ friends) and I have two friends from high school (none from Uni!) that have kept in contact with me despite all the years. I trust them and things are good. We don’t party or get together often, but that’s sort of how I prefer it. They’re even more shy and ‘nerdish’ than I am!!! >    - career and jobs

No prob. In fact, the main threat is that I am having trouble concentrating on work because my loneliness (in a spousal type way) is killing me from the inside. Especially now that people are starting to realise I’m not quite normal in terms of girlfriends etc. The irony is that I forgot about finding love whilst I studied for a good job. I got that good job but I fear my mental health could cost me that! Talk about ironic!!! >    - personal health and fitness

Still running/walking 5 miles per night. Don’t even get heckled much anymore by passerbys in cars, which I take as a positive sign. When I started (and I was sort of flabby) it was hell. Haven’t had a serious cold since I started (used to get them all the time). Maybe girls don’t look at appearance so much as confidence etc, but I feel I am much better looking and it gives me heaps more confidence. BTW That’s relatively better looking (ie I’m OK looking now, instead of ugly… I’m still no model type) >    - intellectual fulfillment (university and others)

Well, I was looking at starting a PhD in economics in a couple of years but really, why bother? If I can’t get some crucial and close relationship going before long, I’m just going to give up on life. And I’m sick of the academic rat race for the time being anyway. >    - emotional intelligence

I guess I lack in this. Though in the context of understanding and empathising with people I am amazingly skilled. I have a real habit of (unknowingly) getting close to people without even trying. Of course, that’s "close" as in "a good friend", not close as in "let’s get together for a relationship". >    - organizational and time management

I work with military precision when it comes to these things. Never, ever had a problem with being punctual, with squeezing huge amounts of work out of minimal time, with turning massive tasks into neatly structured and ordered little components.         You are right, I don’t think a girlfriend would solve all of my problems. But in all seriousness, it would make things one HELL of a lot easier. New problems would arise, yes, but one of them wouldn’t be a complete feeling of alienation from social norms that I currently feel. And that get’s worse everytime I go out and see others who have managed to be ‘normal’. I can’t help it; that REALLY hurts. Big time. — Sorry if I seem to ignore you but my ISP’s news-server is absolutely flakey. I do try through Dejanews to follow up.

Response:

<<I am down on myself so I’ll attack others to even the score.>> Whenever you get into that mode, the important guideline is to attack ONLY people who have done bad. Never attack innocent people to "even the score" against people who have done you harm. If you can’t find the person who specifically hurt you this time, attack somebody who hurt you in the past but against whom you’ve procrastinated getting even. Now, while you’re feeling the pain of a new hurt, is the best time to catch up on revenge against people who hurt you in the past. But again: Never attack an innocent party, and try hard to reduce "collateral damage" to innocent parties. For example, it’s OK to kick a bad person in the tummy, but not to set fire to the person’s house because the fire might spread to innocent neighbor’s house.

Response:

> > I am lonely. > I am Steve.  What’s your point? :-)

You shithead! What a rotten response. An "I message" is a statement of how the speaker/writer feels. "I am lonely" is an "I message". In response to the other person’s "I message" you attack the person with a nasty flip remark. This is supposed to be a support group. In support groups, "I mesages" are supposed to be encouraged, not attacked. I am lonely too. Don’t you dare start attacking me for my "I messages" too! > It takes two to tango.

Hey, I already said that in another thread, check DejaNews if you don’t believe me! You stole my line! :-)

Response:

In article <765plh$q9…@garfield.vcn.bc.ca>,   Steve Ruelle <sr…@vcn.bc.ca> wrote: > As far as I’m concerned, relationsips are win-win arrangements.  That is, > both of you should *want* to be with each other and both of you should be > interested in each other.  It’s a simple case of ‘I love you and want to > be around you and will SHOW you that’ vs ‘Love me b/c I’m so lonely and I > must have someone fulfill my needs’

This reminds me of something I read recently.  It said that a person attracts relationships based on similar characteristics within themselves, or that somehow complement things in themselves.  So if the person is needy, they will attract those who are also needy.  The suggestion is to develop in yourself the qualities you want to attract in others. I believe this to be true.  I have had times where I was needy & had my share of problems.  ANd the type of people I attracted into my life were the same.  It wasn’t all that bad, but once we had worked on some of our problems, we went our separate ways. > It’s not just you, Blackbile, but so many guys on this group have the > belief that finding a girlfriend will grant them instant confidence and > solve all of their problems.  With this belief, the end result will be > failure.  It’s simply living a life out of balance.

I agree. > Now before you start attacking me, I know full well what it’s like to be > shy and have spent the last three years working my ASS off in attempting > to overcome it.  Progress has been excelent, but far from complete.

What kind of progress?  What did you do last year, that you hadn’t been able to do before? > Now > I’m at the point where I want to work on sexual relationships — i.e. > finding a girlfriend — and have set myself a fairly rigorous goal with > regards to it.   Let’s just say that the number of approaches I’ll be > doing in the new year is over 50.  Also I’ll be working on: >    - spirituality >    - non-sexual relationships >    - career and jobs >    - personal health and fitness >    - intellectual fulfillment (university and others) >    - emotional intelligence >    - organizational and time management

What’s emotional intelligence?  ANd how can you tell if you have it?  :) ExpressMyself ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

In article <763vk7$cf…@garfield.vcn.bc.ca>,   Steve Ruelle <sr…@vcn.bc.ca> wrote: > But please don’t whine.  I get enough of that from the customers I serve > at work :-)

I’d rather read a few bitter messages on a.s.s. than read about another "shy, nice guy" going beserk and killing people.  If we encourage people to bottle up their emotions, this is the path we will be sending them on. > If you believe that having a sexual relationship will solve all your > problems, foiget about it. What about spirituality?

I’m an atheist so I don’t have to worry about that. > What about money?

Love is much more important than money.  Besides I’m making good grades and should have no problem finding a job after college. > What about non-sexual relationsips?

My gf could introduce me to people at parties, etc. > What about family?

Family is unimportant to me. > What about a career?

Having a sexual relationship relaxes me and enables me to focus on my career. When I am single I tend to focus too much on my unfullfilled libido and not enough on my career. >  What about personal health and fitness?

I do both already. > In order for a life to be balanced, ALL of these issues must be adressed > at some point.  I’m working very hard on all of these issues, and have > come up with goals for four of them.  It never ceases to amaze me how many > posts I see that scream out, "I need a girlfriend to be happy"  If you > believe this, you will fail.  Read my lips.  Fail.

Not necessarily.  I always believed all I needed was a gf to make me happy. This year I had a gf and guess what:  It was by far the happiest year of my life. -Kris ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Response:

expressmys…@my-dejanews.com wrote: > What’s emotional intelligence?  ANd how can you tell if you have it?  :)

Daniel Goleman wrote a couple of books on the subject.  I read "Emotional Intelligence" and found it quite interesting.

Response:

On 27 Dec 1998 00:39:35 GMT, Steve Ruelle <sr…@vcn.bc.ca> wrote: >I serve.  Although it’s complex, there is a simple pattern behind it — ‘I >am down on myself so I’ll attack others to even the score.’

So what’s the problem? >I believe, Blackbile, and this goes out to others as well, that this whole >victim/attacker mentality and obsession with finding a girlfriend to solve >all of life’s problems is *ultimately* a result of living a life out of >balance.

I agree!  Lack of a girlfriend is the unbalancing factor. >If you believe that having a sexual relationship will solve all your >problems, foiget about it.  

That is my only problem. >What about spirituality?

Don’t care. >What about money?

Easy. >What about non-sexual relationsips?

Don’t want ‘em. >What about family?

Doing great. >What about a career?

I’m still a student. >What about personal health and fitness?

I’m fit. >come up with goals for four of them.  It never ceases to amaze me how many >posts I see that scream out, "I need a girlfriend to be happy"  If you >believe this, you will fail.  Read my lips.  Fail.

That’s a really ironic catch phrase you chose, since the last big public figure who used that turned out to be WRONG about what he was promising.  :)

Response:

In article <36881765.272392…@news.feist.com>,   ch…@melon.com (Blackbile) wrote: > On 27 Dec 1998 17:10:09 GMT, Steve Ruelle <sr…@vcn.bc.ca> wrote: > I agree.  Judging by your later attacks on me, you seem to be under > the impression I did that all the time.  I did not.  I did it once.

Quantity isn’t really the point here.  What I’m saying ties in with how you perceive:  your beliefs, paradigms, views of the world, that sort of thing. Going by your posts as of late (which I’m still trying to catch up on as well as tons of other reading from last month :-) ) your view of relationships and women is such that it’ll give you failure.  Whether this happens 1 or 1000 times isn’t the point. > People need affection.

It depends on how you define ‘need’.  In my experience, it was *mutual* physical affection that I really liked, and it’s something that I WANT to experience again, and am setting myself a goal to achieve this WANT.  Whether or not it’s a need is debatable. If you "need" affection from others to make yourself feel more complete, then Houston we have a problem.  If, however, both you and a SO have both gone through a self-actualization process and have come to know and understand yourself *authentically* then sharing of affection can be a tremendous synbergy to the relationship. > Actually, my only problem is finding a girlfriend.  I’m doing well in > school, and I can get jobs easily.  I like my body.  I like my mind. > I’m never bored.

Are you sure??  You mean to tell me that you have set specific goals for yourself to succeed in these areas of your life, and that the ONLY problem left for you is to find a girlfriend?  If so, have you set yourself a goal for it?? > I am lonely.

I am Steve.  What’s your point? :-) > The immediate question that comes to mind then, of course, is, "What > if one accepts and it gets serious?"  Are you still going to ask out > other women?  I mean, since we’re on the subject of fairness in > relationships and win-win and all.

I’m going to keep making approaches until I meet my goal.  When I get into a relationship that is MUTUALLY supportive and win-win, then obviously I won’t make more approaches, unless I want to get dumped for two-timing :-) > Reread and you will find no mention of why I started the relationship > with her.  Explicitly: I *STAYED* in the relationship because I was > desperate.

More arguing over semantics.  Whether or not you go into a relationship or stay in a relationship isn’t the issue here.  What matters is your *perception* of the relationship;  namely your belief that you are "desperate" and expect women to fulfill your needs. > She turned out to be a worthless piece of female garbage who just wanted > to play games.)

It takes two to tango.  I don’t know the specifics of the relationship, but from what you’re posting, it sounds like she may have sensed your "weakness" — that is your belief that you expected her to take care of your needs, and may have used that to "play games" with you. Sure, she wasn’t acting with win-win intentions, but neither were you.  The end result:  lose-lose. It’s dynamic.  Your communication affects her response, which in turn she communicates to you, and you respond, etc…  If you change an "initial condition" in this "coupled differential equation" of human relationships then the interaction takes an entirely different path.  For example, by *showing* this woman that you care for her as a person (and you can demonstrate this by touching) that in itself might change the entire relationsip. Steve. > I’m already doing fine in many of those areas, actually.

How? ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

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On Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:48:25 -0600, Kris <manhattan_by_woody_al…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Blackbile wrote: >> I’d have accused you of liking the movie more than me. >I’m sorry but I have yet to meet a woman who can compete with a Humphrey >Bogart film.  I just find Bogart a lot more interesting than the typical >teenage girl bitching about her friends.  Been there, done that.

So I’d have been right.  :) >On the surface, it may seem like being alone is preferential to being with >someone I don’t like.  However I spent the first 20 years of my life alone, >then had a 9 month taste of the good life this year. I’ve spent this month >alone and quite frankly it’s beginning to drive me batty. I need someone to >be with and hold . . .

My taste of the good life happened nine YEARS ago, so I’m well acquainted with those feelings, as well as the following denial, depression, hopelessness, depression, acquiescence, depression, dementia, depression, and eventually a hatred of the very thing you need.  I’m really not looking forward to what happens after my next bout of depression. >Let me share a story.  I dress well and am rather effeminate.  In high school >parlance, this meant I was a member of the gay community.  One day the other >boys were ridiculing me and the gay community even more viciously than >usual.  Our Social Studies teacher overheard and told those boys the wisest >thing I have ever heard:  "Don’t knock what you haven’t tried." >Well, guess what?  I’ve decided to give this "relationSHIT" as you put it a >chance.  I’ve never been in one before so how can I knock what I haven’t >tried?

I call it a relationSHIT when you’re dating someone JUST because you don’t want to be alone, because usually in that situation, the relationship IS shit.  I’ve done it before.  I let a woman treat me like absolute caca for MONTHS just because I didn’t want to be alone and I was so afraid that if I lost her I wouldn’t find anyone else.  I eventually grew a spine and "dumped" her worthless ass, but my prediction has so far been 100% true–I never found anyone else. >Oh yeah, I recently saw one of the boys who used to pick on me at college. >He introduced his lover to me.  I had a stunned look on my face so he nudged >me and said:  "Hey, remember what ol’ Mr.Z said?" >"You mean. . . ?" >"Yep, don’t knock what you haven’t tried."

I’m having a devil of a time figuring out how all this gay stuff ties into the original thread.

Response:

On 27 Dec 1998 17:10:09 GMT, Steve Ruelle <sr…@vcn.bc.ca> wrote: >Blackbile <ch…@melon.com> wrote: >> I call it a relationSHIT when you’re dating someone JUST because you >> don’t want to be alone, because usually in that situation, the >> relationship IS shit. >Sorry for barging in here, but if you enter into a relationship with that >kind of attitude, no wonder it turns out to be shit.

I agree.  Judging by your later attacks on me, you seem to be under the impression I did that all the time.  I did not.  I did it once. >As far as I’m concerned, relationsips are win-win arrangements.  That is,

Ideally, yes. >both of you should *want* to be with each other and both of you should be >interested in each other.  It’s a simple case of ‘I love you and want to >be around you and will SHOW you that’ vs ‘Love me b/c I’m so lonely and I >must have someone fulfill my needs’

People need affection.  If they’re not getting it, they will do evil things. >It’s not just you, Blackbile, but so many guys on this group have the >belief that finding a girlfriend will grant them instant confidence and >solve all of their problems.  With this belief, the end result will be >failure.  It’s simply living a life out of balance.

Actually, my only problem is finding a girlfriend.  I’m doing well in school, and I can get jobs easily.  I like my body.  I like my mind. I’m never bored. I am lonely. >regards to it.   Let’s just say that the number of approaches I’ll be >doing in the new year is over 50.  Also I’ll be working on:

The immediate question that comes to mind then, of course, is, "What if one accepts and it gets serious?"  Are you still going to ask out other women?  I mean, since we’re on the subject of fairness in relationships and win-win and all. >> I’ve done it before.  I let a woman treat me >> like absolute caca for MONTHS just because I didn’t want to be alone >> and I was so afraid that if I lost her I wouldn’t find anyone else. >So you failed, basically.  You got involved in a relationship with the >above attitude,

No, I did not. >and you got treated like "caca".  Good!  I hope this means >next time you’ll make some changes on how you perceive women and >relationships before you get involved again.

Reread and you will find no mention of why I started the relationship with her.  Explicitly: I *STAYED* in the relationship because I was desperate.  You are dead wrong about why I started it.  (I was genuinely attracted to her and wanted a "normal" relationship.  She turned out to be a worthless piece of female garbage who just wanted to play games.) >Until you start living a life of balance, and focus on the SYNERGY of >working on goals of the different ‘life issues’ as listed above, as well >as make some active changes in your behavior, you’ll just experience >"relationSHITS" again and again.

I’m already doing fine in many of those areas, actually.

Response:

Blackbile <ch…@melon.com> wrote: > I call it a relationSHIT when you’re dating someone JUST because you > don’t want to be alone, because usually in that situation, the > relationship IS shit.

Sorry for barging in here, but if you enter into a relationship with that kind of attitude, no wonder it turns out to be shit. As far as I’m concerned, relationsips are win-win arrangements.  That is, both of you should *want* to be with each other and both of you should be interested in each other.  It’s a simple case of ‘I love you and want to be around you and will SHOW you that’ vs ‘Love me b/c I’m so lonely and I must have someone fulfill my needs’ It’s not just you, Blackbile, but so many guys on this group have the belief that finding a girlfriend will grant them instant confidence and solve all of their problems.  With this belief, the end result will be failure.  It’s simply living a life out of balance. Now before you start attacking me, I know full well what it’s like to be shy and have spent the last three years working my ASS off in attempting to overcome it.  Progress has been excelent, but far from complete.  Now I’m at the point where I want to work on sexual relationships — i.e. finding a girlfriend — and have set myself a fairly rigorous goal with regards to it.   Let’s just say that the number of approaches I’ll be doing in the new year is over 50.  Also I’ll be working on:         – spirituality         – non-sexual relationships         – career and jobs         – personal health and fitness         – intellectual fulfillment (university and others)         – emotional intelligence         – organizational and time management Plus more.  My biggest path of resistance was (and still is) with sexual relationships, and what really got the ball rolling on that goal is making passes at a girl last Christmas Eve Church during a boring sermon :-)   > I’ve done it before.  I let a woman treat me > like absolute caca for MONTHS just because I didn’t want to be alone > and I was so afraid that if I lost her I wouldn’t find anyone else.

So you failed, basically.  You got involved in a relationship with the above attitude, and you got treated like "caca".  Good!  I hope this means next time you’ll make some changes on how you perceive women and relationships before you get involved again. > eventually grew a spine and "dumped" her worthless ass, but my > prediction has so far been 100% true–I never found anyone else.

Until you start living a life of balance, and focus on the SYNERGY of working on goals of the different ‘life issues’ as listed above, as well as make some active changes in your behavior, you’ll just experience "relationSHITS" again and again. And we haven’t even started getting into what kind of effects this sort of attitude has on the women you come into contact with, and how it affects their lives too. Steve.

Response:

Blackbile <ch…@melon.com> wrote: > Those aren’t called relationships, they’re called relationSHITS.  Now > if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to take me up on that puke offer > earlier.

Hmm… I tried to e-mail you earlier, Blackbile, but the message bounced so I’ll just post it instead.  I quit posting for the year back in Nov. but since exams and the Christmas rush are all over now, what the hell! I hate to say it, but your responses on this group are *typical* of what I call the victim/attacker mentality.  It’s not just you;  I can list a few others off the top of my head as well.  Also people I work with and people I serve.  Although it’s complex, there is a simple pattern behind it — ‘I am down on myself so I’ll attack others to even the score.’ Ready to attack me yet :-) But I don’t want to just brush you off with a killfile as I know what’s it’s like to be shy.  I’ve been working my ass off overcoming my shyness for let’s see now, the past three years since I started posting here. Progress has been quite good;  If I could compare myself now to what I was like three years ago, I’d have a fit :-)  Basically, I’ve _done_ things to overcome my shyness:  assertiveness courses, customer service experience, public speaking, iniatiating evenings with friends, and most importantly focusing my attention on other people and seeing things from *their* point of view, not mine.   The progress has been excellent, but far from complete.  Now I’m at the stage where I feel ready to go out an approach women in public — I’ve set myself a fairly rigorous goal with this, complete with documentation of the experience in a journal.  Let’s just say the number of approaches I’ll be attempting in the New Year is over 50.  And I’ll most definetely be learning from each approach I make, and not quitting after one.  I was semi-motivated to this this last week, but making passes at a girl during Christmas Eve church was what really got the ball rolling :-) I believe, Blackbile, and this goes out to others as well, that this whole victim/attacker mentality and obsession with finding a girlfriend to solve all of life’s problems is *ultimately* a result of living a life out of balance. If you believe that having a sexual relationship will solve all your problems, foiget about it.  What about spirituality?  What about money? What about non-sexual relationsips?  What about family?  What about a career?  What about personal health and fitness? In order for a life to be balanced, ALL of these issues must be adressed at some point.  I’m working very hard on all of these issues, and have come up with goals for four of them.  It never ceases to amaze me how many posts I see that scream out, "I need a girlfriend to be happy"  If you believe this, you will fail.  Read my lips.  Fail. What’s worse is the unnecessary feelings of low self-esteem you might cause a woman to have if you get involved into a relationship with this sort of paradigm.  Women have feelings too, and unless you’re pursuing a relationship with true win/win intentions in minds, then you might as well not get involved.  Spend more time instead on working on life goals, and finding *specific* ways to *initiate* ways to *do* things to overcome your shyness. But please don’t whine.  I get enough of that from the customers I serve at work :-) Steve.

Response:

Kris (manhattan_by_woody_al…@yahoo.com) wrote:

: I have recently been dumped by my gf.  But like any good man, I didn’t : let it get me down.  I posted a personal ad and now I have a new : potential gf on the horizon.  She just got out of a bad relationship. : Her ex- was incarcerated for attempted murder.  So I come out looking : like a Clinton-esque ladies man in contrast to him. Let’s just say I’m : sharpening up the ol’ pocket knife and getting ready to put another : notch on my bedpost. : : But this is not an ideal situation.  Personally I find her to be very : annoying.  She exhibits a lot of passive-aggressive behavior.  For : instance I tried to end a phone conversation last night by saying: : "I’ve gotta go. I want to watch a movie that’s due tomorrow."  She : accused me of making up excuses so I wouldn’t have to talk to her.  In : addition we don’t have much in common aside from antipathy toward : organized religion. : : So my question is this.  Is it better to be alone or with someone you : don’t like?  Personally I am leaning toward the Sydney Pollack-Judy : Davis philosophy espoused in Woody Allen’s "Husbands and Wives".  Simply : stated a relationship is more a buffer against loneliness than it is : about love. : : Has anyone tried having a relationship with someone you didn’t like? : I’ve never made it past the first date with someone I didn’t like.  In : all instances it was the woman’s choice not mine so I can’t give a : definite answer. Been there, Done that. Haven’t we all been in a relationship where we’re just using somebody to not be lonely? Well, I can tell you this.  Don’t do it.  It’s a nightmare waiting for a dreamer.  It’s worse when you do it right out of a relationship.  It just is plain and simple a bad idea : : — : Kris : : "Mom, sooner or later a man has to face the facts.  And one of the facts : I got to face is whatever it is women like I ain’t got it.  I’ve chased : after enough girls, I’ve been to enough dances, I’ve been hurt enough : and I don’t want to be hurt no more."  -Marty, written by Paddy : Chayefsky : : : — Imran H Peerbhai                 http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~peerbhai     peerb…@student.umass.edu      

Response:

I have recently been dumped by my gf.  But like any good man, I didn’t let it get me down.  I posted a personal ad and now I have a new potential gf on the horizon.  She just got out of a bad relationship. Her ex- was incarcerated for attempted murder.  So I come out looking like a Clinton-esque ladies man in contrast to him. Let’s just say I’m sharpening up the ol’ pocket knife and getting ready to put another notch on my bedpost. But this is not an ideal situation.  Personally I find her to be very annoying.  She exhibits a lot of passive-aggressive behavior.  For instance I tried to end a phone conversation last night by saying: "I’ve gotta go. I want to watch a movie that’s due tomorrow."  She accused me of making up excuses so I wouldn’t have to talk to her.  In addition we don’t have much in common aside from antipathy toward organized religion. So my question is this.  Is it better to be alone or with someone you don’t like?  Personally I am leaning toward the Sydney Pollack-Judy Davis philosophy espoused in Woody Allen’s "Husbands and Wives".  Simply stated a relationship is more a buffer against loneliness than it is about love. Has anyone tried having a relationship with someone you didn’t like? I’ve never made it past the first date with someone I didn’t like.  In all instances it was the woman’s choice not mine so I can’t give a definite answer. — Kris "Mom, sooner or later a man has to face the facts.  And one of the facts I got to face is whatever it is women like I ain’t got it.  I’ve chased after enough girls, I’ve been to enough dances, I’ve been hurt enough and I don’t want to be hurt no more."  -Marty, written by Paddy Chayefsky

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