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My story

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kathleen and Steve wrote: > > When another parent, in a co-parenting/separate > > household situation, is sniping at you all the time, it’s an accusation > that the > > mere fact that you did "x" obliterates your general intent of raising your > child > > properly.  It’s a spurious if tacit accusation, and I think it’s what can > really > > eat at you. > > Jennifer > I did some work on all these resentments a while back, and asked myself > "why" over and over until I got to the root problem.  It is that I have a > core belief that "I am not a good parent."  I don’t know what caused me to > think this, or why, but there it is.  Intellectually I know I am a great > Mom, but deep down I don’t feel it.  I don’t know exactly if realizing this > about myself helps – I’ve never been one for psychobabble but I’m hoping > that if I can get to the root of "my stuff" then I can eventually change it. > hugs, Kathleen

Well, even if you "know" you’re a good parent, it’s hard to feel it when you’re being taken to task on every little thing that *most* people would let slide.  I got a call tonight from one of the  moms with whom we share swim carpool duties.  Turns out BM completely forgot to pick up all the kids on Sat. morning (SD wasn’t swimming so they went out of town!).  The kids had to hike to a 7-11 and it was apparently a mess.  I just apologized to the swim mom and then called and spoke to SD, who will relate the event to BM.  The point is, I don’t blame BM for forgetting the pickup.  It happens.  But if *we* had been the ones responsible for pickup, and *we’d* forgotten…well, I can’t say I know we would have gotten chewed out, but just a couple of years ago BM would have gone ballistic over our irresponsibility, bla bla bla. I think we’ve turned the other cheek so many times we’re on perpetual spin motion ;-) Jennifer

Response:

In article <9nh2f3$ie…@news.formus.pl>, Kathleen and Steve <blitz1…@nospam4me.msn.com> wrote: >I did some work on all these resentments a while back, and asked myself >"why" over and over until I got to the root problem.  It is that I have a >core belief that "I am not a good parent."  I don’t know what caused me to >think this, or why, but there it is.  Intellectually I know I am a great >Mom, but deep down I don’t feel it.  I don’t know exactly if realizing this >about myself helps – I’ve never been one for psychobabble but I’m hoping >that if I can get to the root of "my stuff" then I can eventually change it.

I think most mothers feel this, well I do, and I expect SMs are the same.   I’d assume fathers do too, but I’m not sure that the females of the species aren’t raised to feel they’ve got to try to be everything to everyone. I can only speak for myself, but I know that it has a lot to do with perfectionist tendencies.  The very nature of parenting is learning on the fly which is prone to haphazard judgement calls without adequate time to think through things in every minute detail.  Couple that with trying to juggle commitments to yourself, your partner, other children, jobs, family, whatever and sometimes you don’t cover all the bases, singlehandedly, while pitching the perfect shot and teaching your children to bat at the same time.  So, while I know that I try my best, my best isn’t perfect, but then again whose is?  On the other hand, if there’s one thing that I really want to be it’s a good parent. Just my recipe for beating myself up over things. :( Wendy

Response:

Criticism often comes out of insecurity. It can be a way of boosting ones ego eg "you made a mistake – you are stupid – I would never do that – I am brilliant" — joyojoy "Life wasn’t meant to be easy" (Malcome Fraser) "Jennifer" <gaz…@theironpig.com> wrote in message

news:3B9AFE6A.3C525A81@theironpig.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kathleen and Steve wrote: > > I’m glad you wrote that Vicki.  I will have to think about it <grin>.  I > > have not handled criticism from Kayla’s Dad (or the SM) very well.  Most of > > the criticism I receive is about petty things.  Like the time I let her wear > > shorts to school and it was cooler than it was supposed to be that day. > <rest of post snipped> > Kathleen, we had that same scenario going on, only in reverse.  I’m the SM, and > when SD was about 5 or so, when we were just past the going to court phase, BM > used to contact us about the most absurd, petty things–like SD being in clothes > that were too small (they weren’t) or being in shorts instead of longer pants, > etc.  We found ourselves defending ourselves on the most ridiculous subjects > ("It was actually xx degrees, so SD should have been fine…").  I understand > how frustrating it is, and I know from getting snippy.  :-)  We tried to be > calm, but BM was constantly attacking us from all sides with no justification. > What interests me is that now that I have 3 BKs with DH, I find that I’m > constantly making parenting mistakes.  I might forget to send a permission slip > with my son, or I might dress my kids in warm clothes on a hot day, or I might > lose my temper and snap at one of the kids.  But it’s *okay*.  The truth is, we > all make these mistakes, and lotslotslots (etc.)  more.  But when you’re a BM or > BD, you’re given the benefit of the doubt that you’re *generally* acting in your > children’s best interests.  When another parent, in a

co-parenting/separate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> household situation, is sniping at you all the time, it’s an accusation that the > mere fact that you did "x" obliterates your general intent of raising your child > properly.  It’s a spurious if tacit accusation, and I think it’s what can really > eat at you. > Jennifer

Response:

Wendy wrote: > Just my recipe for beating myself up over things. :( > Wendy

What a concept!  Wow, I wonder where I keep that recipe book.  I’d like to go through and throw some of them out.  ; ) Barb

Response:

>Criticism often comes out of insecurity. It can be a way of boosting ones >ego eg "you made a mistake – you are stupid – I would never do that – I am >brilliant"

Very true.  And when you, yourself, are feeling insecure (even deep inside, Kathleen), the critism from another person just reinforces it.  Even when you do consider the source. Kathleen, there are very few truly bad mothers out there.  We all make mistakes and in extended family situations, we tend to hear about them even more. Probably one reason I work so hard at covering up mine.  :-) Kathleen, you ARE a very good mother.  You are an incredibly strong woman. Look at all you’ve accomplished in the past few years.  It’s been a hell of a lot of things.  Try not to allow SM’s own feelings of insecurity work on your feelings.  I know how difficult that can be.  In fact, Jane & I had a discussion this morning that relates to that about when my parents got married and combining two households of adolescent & pubescent kids.  Talk about a mess.  :-)   Could those feelings of insecurity be coming from the adolescent in you?  Or maybe the addictive part of your personality?  You must also consider your own source of insecurity & where it’s coming from. AnneH "To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might be  the world."

Response:

In article <3B9CF2AF.E5EE7…@nmia.com>, ERGT  <gwyd…@nmia.com> wrote: >Wendy wrote: >> Just my recipe for beating myself up over things. :( >> Wendy >What a concept!  Wow, I wonder where I keep that recipe book.  I’d like to go >through and throw some of them out.  ; )

Ah, but the really insidious part of the mixture is that I also recognise that without trying to be perfect I wouldn’t manage even the approximation that I do. :)  Besides, it’s part of who I am, part of my passion and commitment. The only way of avoiding the lows is to stop aspiring to the highs, IYSWIM. Wendy

Response:

>Subject: Re: My story >From: we…@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk  (Wendy) >Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents >Date: 10 Sep 2001 17:30:07 GMT >Ah, but the really insidious part of the mixture is that I also recognise >that >without trying to be perfect I wouldn’t manage even the approximation that I >do. :)  Besides, it’s part of who I am, part of my passion and commitment. >The only way of avoiding the lows is to stop aspiring to the highs, IYSWIM. >Wendy

I don’t have that.  I think I should do my best and that I’m bound to make mistakes.  I rationalize that having a perfect mother itself warrants years of self-doubt and intensive therapy.   jane

Response:

Hi all, I’ve been lurking here for quite some time now.  I’ve often been tempted to post a comment or suggestion but never quite taken that extra step.  With just a hint of nervousness, here goes: I’m 33, BM of 11yo son and 7yo daughter.  My wonderful partner has 2 boys, 12 and 9 who live with their mum but stay here with us every 2nd w/end and 1 week night.  We’ve synchronised access so that all 4 of the kids are with us on the same w/end leaving us a whole w/end to ourselves. All 4 get on famously (aside from some minor issues which are a whole other topic). Ex-wife is extemely co-operative and friendly and we all have the best interests of our kids at heart.  Life is wonderful right?  Did I mention my ex-husband? We separated 6 years ago after I grew tired of being treated like dirt.  It was the typical scenario.  I was unhappy, asked him to get counselling with me, he ridiculed the idea, I got over the whole marriage and asked him to leave, he was shocked and wondered why I hadn’t mentioned it to him before. He moved out and I had 6 months of him alternating between pleading with me to try again and threatening to take the kids from me.   Then I met my partner. Since that time my ex husband had made it very plain what he thinks of my partner and myself.  He constantly belittles my ability to parent our children and has attacked everything from the clothes I buy them to the fact I give them vitamins every morning.  These comments aren’t a major issue as I’ve learnt to ignore the insults but he has no qualms about letting the children know what he thinks also.  They aren’t allowed to say my partner’s name in their dad’s presence and can only refer to him as ‘him’ if at all. They are told that all things Spanish are bad (my partner’s South American) and were even forbidden to dance the Macarena.  He tells them that ‘he’ can’t discipline them, and not to listen to ‘him’…the list goes on.  I haven’t been able to find a way to approach this with the kids without making dad out to be the bad guy so I keep quiet in the knowledge that they adore my partner and they’re pretty damn wonderful well adjusted children. Things came to a head on Sunday however, Father’s Day.  The kids had bought gifts at a school father’s Day stall for their dad and my partner.  Dad confiscated the gifts for ‘him’ and told them he isn’t their father and they will not buy him anything.  He confronted me at the front door about this when he returned them after his access w/end.  He started the old routine of criticising everything I’ve done in the past 6 years.  11yo unbeknownst to us was listening in and came running out, sobbing uncontrollably.  He yelled at his father and told him to go home and leave me and my partner alone. This was totally out of character.  Ex left and I was left to calm down (by now) two very distraught children. I’m sorry this is such a long post, Kudos to those who stayed with me up till now.  In the scheme of things, and compared to some of the very real and serious issues I’ve seen written about here, this would seem to be quite a minor problem.  But it’s my children, they are being seriously affected by their father’s ignorance and inability to get past his bitterness.  I’m not worried that he will succeed in his attempts to get the kids to take sides, it’s more the damage he’s doing to them emotionally. If anybody has any suggestions for minimizing the damage this man does to his own children I’d be very happy to hear them.  Thanks for listening/reading. Flaime Dream as if you’ll live forever, live as if you’ll die tomorrow

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m 33, BM of 11yo son and 7yo daughter.  My wonderful partner has 2 boys, > 12 and 9 who live with their mum but stay here with us every 2nd w/end and 1 > week night.  We’ve synchronised access so that all 4 of the kids are with us > on the same w/end leaving us a whole w/end to ourselves. All 4 get on > famously (aside from some minor issues which are a whole other topic). > Ex-wife is extemely co-operative and friendly and we all have the best > interests of our kids at heart.  Life is wonderful right? >  Did I mention my ex-husband? > We separated 6 years ago after I grew tired of being treated like dirt. It > was the typical scenario.  I was unhappy, asked him to get counselling with > me, he ridiculed the idea, I got over the whole marriage and asked him to > leave, he was shocked and wondered why I hadn’t mentioned it to him before. > He moved out and I had 6 months of him alternating between pleading with me > to try again and threatening to take the kids from me.   Then I met my > partner. > Since that time my ex husband had made it very plain what he thinks of my > partner and myself.  He constantly belittles my ability to parent our > children and has attacked everything from the clothes I buy them to the fact > I give them vitamins every morning.  These comments aren’t a major issue as > I’ve learnt to ignore the insults but he has no qualms about letting the > children know what he thinks also.  They aren’t allowed to say my partner’s > name in their dad’s presence and can only refer to him as ‘him’ if at all. > They are told that all things Spanish are bad (my partner’s South American) > and were even forbidden to dance the Macarena.  He tells them that ‘he’ > can’t discipline them, and not to listen to ‘him’…the list goes on.  I > haven’t been able to find a way to approach this with the kids without > making dad out to be the bad guy so I keep quiet in the knowledge that they > adore my partner and they’re pretty damn wonderful well adjusted children. > Things came to a head on Sunday however, Father’s Day.  The kids had bought > gifts at a school father’s Day stall for their dad and my partner.  Dad > confiscated the gifts for ‘him’ and told them he isn’t their father and they > will not buy him anything.  He confronted me at the front door about this > when he returned them after his access w/end.  He started the old routine of > criticising everything I’ve done in the past 6 years.  11yo unbeknownst to > us was listening in and came running out, sobbing uncontrollably.  He yelled > at his father and told him to go home and leave me and my partner alone. > This was totally out of character.  Ex left and I was left to calm down (by > now) two very distraught children. > I’m sorry this is such a long post, Kudos to those who stayed with me up > till now.  In the scheme of things, and compared to some of the very real > and serious issues I’ve seen written about here, this would seem to be quite > a minor problem.  But it’s my children, they are being seriously affected by > their father’s ignorance and inability to get past his bitterness.  I’m not > worried that he will succeed in his attempts to get the kids to take sides, > it’s more the damage he’s doing to them emotionally. > If anybody has any suggestions for minimizing the damage this man does to > his own children I’d be very happy to hear them.  Thanks for > listening/reading. > Flaime > Dream as if you’ll live forever, live as if you’ll die tomorrow

Flaime,     Welcome to assp!  I certainly know how you feel.  I often liken having children to ripping your heart out and watching it grow arms and legs and move around in the world.  I don’t have any great advice for you.  I try to focus on my own behavior and not change my actions accordingly to BioDad’s actions.  I try to keep the lines of communication open with my child, and encourage her to talk about these things.  I have explained to her, in the past, how difficult it is for some people to move on and also how 2 people can remember things totally differently.  I also try to point out how bitterness and anger only hurt the person who dwells on these things.  I use examples from my own life (leaving Dad out of it) when I explain these things to her.  As I have read here before, it is important to focus on the things you can change, and BD is not one of them.  Keep posting, we all need those comments and advice! With hope and heart, Kathleen

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Subject: My story >From: "Marika" fla…@idx.com.au >Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 21:31:08 +1000 >Hi all, >I’ve been lurking here for quite some time now.  I’ve often been tempted to >post a comment or suggestion but never quite taken that extra step.  With >just a hint of nervousness, here goes: >I’m 33, BM of 11yo son and 7yo daughter.  My wonderful partner has 2 boys, >12 and 9 who live with their mum but stay here with us every 2nd w/end and 1 >week night.  We’ve synchronised access so that all 4 of the kids are with us >on the same w/end leaving us a whole w/end to ourselves. All 4 get on >famously (aside from some minor issues which are a whole other topic). >Ex-wife is extemely co-operative and friendly and we all have the best >interests of our kids at heart.  Life is wonderful right? > Did I mention my ex-husband? >We separated 6 years ago after I grew tired of being treated like dirt.  It >was the typical scenario.  I was unhappy, asked him to get counselling with >me, he ridiculed the idea, I got over the whole marriage and asked him to >leave, he was shocked and wondered why I hadn’t mentioned it to him before. >He moved out and I had 6 months of him alternating between pleading with me >to try again and threatening to take the kids from me.   Then I met my >partner. >Since that time my ex husband had made it very plain what he thinks of my >partner and myself.  He constantly belittles my ability to parent our >children and has attacked everything from the clothes I buy them to the fact >I give them vitamins every morning.  These comments aren’t a major issue as >I’ve learnt to ignore the insults but he has no qualms about letting the >children know what he thinks also.  They aren’t allowed to say my partner’s >name in their dad’s presence and can only refer to him as ‘him’ if at all. >They are told that all things Spanish are bad (my partner’s South American) >and were even forbidden to dance the Macarena.  He tells them that ‘he’ >can’t discipline them, and not to listen to ‘him’…the list goes on.  I >haven’t been able to find a way to approach this with the kids without >making dad out to be the bad guy so I keep quiet in the knowledge that they >adore my partner and they’re pretty damn wonderful well adjusted children. >Things came to a head on Sunday however, Father’s Day.  The kids had bought >gifts at a school father’s Day stall for their dad and my partner.  Dad >confiscated the gifts for ‘him’ and told them he isn’t their father and they >will not buy him anything.  He confronted me at the front door about this >when he returned them after his access w/end.  He started the old routine of >criticising everything I’ve done in the past 6 years.  11yo unbeknownst to >us was listening in and came running out, sobbing uncontrollably.  He yelled >at his father and told him to go home and leave me and my partner alone. >This was totally out of character.  Ex left and I was left to calm down (by >now) two very distraught children. >I’m sorry this is such a long post, Kudos to those who stayed with me up >till now.  In the scheme of things, and compared to some of the very real >and serious issues I’ve seen written about here, this would seem to be quite >a minor problem.  But it’s my children, they are being seriously affected by >their father’s ignorance and inability to get past his bitterness.  I’m not >worried that he will succeed in his attempts to get the kids to take sides, >it’s more the damage he’s doing to them emotionally. >If anybody has any suggestions for minimizing the damage this man does to >his own children I’d be very happy to hear them.  Thanks for >listening/reading. >Flaime >Dream as if you’ll live forever, live as if you’ll die tomorrow

I wouldn’t get too caught up in it.  I think kids can be fine with one parent being bitter as long as they don’t get caught in the crossfire.  So your ex is having trouble handling the end of an important life relationship – he’s certainly not alone.  Most people need some time to work things through.   Until he gets a grip, if he ever does, you can just refuse to escalate things on your end.  If you think that the pick up and drop off is likely to be a problem again, you can make arrangements for some alternative where you, DH, and your ex don’t actually meet.   If he doesn’t get abusive and you don’t feel battered, I think it’s good to listen to his criticism of your parenting.  Not in front of the children, of course.  It might also help if you look for things you can agree with in what he says. If you acknowledge any of his concerns as valid and try to incorporate his feelings and wishes in your parenting, that could make him feel less cut out of the children’s life.  He’s as much the kids’ parent as you are, and I suspect he sees his role as being usurped by DH.   I know it’s hard when he’s being a goon and disagreeing with everything you do.  But maybe you’ve gotten into the habit of ignoring everything he says too.  No matter how bad your marriage was, he must be right about something, somewhere, that involves parenting the kids.  Work with that. jane  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <I recently heard that saying "Oh, I never thought about that.  You might be > <right about that.  I will have to think about this." can be better than > <punching someone in the face, because you refuse to get caught up in their > <anger.  I plan to put these lines to good use at the first available > <opportunity! > I think that’s a good thing to say, but only if you mean it.  If > you’re saying "I’ll think about that; good point" but thinking "Yeah, > when pigs *fly*, I’ll think about that!"  then you’re being > patronizing and manipulative. > Just because someone is being a jerk to you doesn’t give you the right > to be a jerk back. > Vicki

I’m glad you wrote that Vicki.  I will have to think about it <grin>.  I have not handled criticism from Kayla’s Dad (or the SM) very well.  Most of the criticism I receive is about petty things.  Like the time I let her wear shorts to school and it was cooler than it was supposed to be that day. Over the summer I took the girls to my clients with me (I clean houses, and Kayla only went with me a couple times, maybe 3).  At one home they have 3 large dogs.  To make a  long story short, the owner took the girls out to meet the dogs, and my 6yo got scratched on the leg pretty badly.  Kayla called her other home that day, told the SM about it, and Dad immediately called back demanding I leave Kayla at home while I work.  His concern was understandable, but it was under control (we wont be letting the kids go out and see the dogs again, and that was the last cleaning job before school started anyway).  I don’t leave my kids home alone.  Period.  I think I am lost as to how to please either of these people, they always have things they want me to do when she is here.  I consider it micro managing her life. I believe in letting her make some choices.  I try to let the little things go with her, and that is my style of parenting.  I can honestly say I think about his suggestions, but they are basically (to me) demanding that I raise Kayla the way they choose to.  So when I get these calls I usually end up getting snippy.  I hate it when I get snippy.  The above response was the first thing I have heard that might work for me.  If is suggested to me that I might be responding/parenting inappropriately, I consider it.  Thank God I have a 12 step program and a sponsor who I can call about these things.  She has encouraged me to withdraw from all conflicts at this point.  So I guess my motive for using this response would be to get them to possibly realize that if they want to control our 12yo, they need to go back to court and get control.  I try to treat them as I would like to be treated.  I would never dream of calling them and complaining about these little things.  I think it’s pretty clear to me (and my sponsor) that they are not acting in Kayla’s best interest, they are simply using her to try to get me upset.  Or else he has turned into a control freak and I’m not into that either.  It’s self-sabotaging.  I think Kayla needs to learn from her mistakes along the way, not learn that if she makes a mistake Mom or Dad are going to get mad. I try to always examine my motives, and I think in this case the motive is to get them off my back (at least) and hopefully they will realize some day that they have no business dictating to me how I parent my daughter or what goes on in my home.  I can see a lot of situations where the concerns might be valid, therefore the above response patronizing and manipulating.  But at this point I don’t know a better way.  I know behind all this is some lesson I am supposed to learn, but I am not there yet.  They think I’m a jerk no matter what I say.  Or do.  They seem pretty intent upon undermining my relationship with Kayla at every opportunity.  It’s not working.  It may cause me some discomfort but she is old enough to see through most of this. With hope and heart, Kathleen

Response:

On Fri, 7 Sep 2001 06:35:21 -0500, "Kathleen and Steve" <blitz1…@nospam4me.msn.com> wrote: >I’m glad you wrote that Vicki.  I will have to think about it <grin>.  I >have not handled criticism from Kayla’s Dad (or the SM) very well.  Most of >the criticism I receive is about petty things.  Like the time I let her wear >shorts to school and it was cooler than it was supposed to be that day.

An idea to think about – you might want to leave a spare pair of pants? jeans? whatever the bottom half of the uniform is somewhere at school. I know it’s not always cheap and I know it’s annoying because sometimes the school loses them, but if you do this, it will accomplish two things. 1. you’ll never be bothered about that petty thing again and 2. if Kayla does get cold at school, she’s got clothes she can put on. You might even want to leave a jumper or jacket there as well.. >I consider it micro managing her life.

It’s not just that.. it’s micromanaging your life too. I’ve been on *both* sides of that fence, and let me tell you it’s not fun. As far as I am concerned, what goes on in *your* house is *your* business. I can say that now, but two years ago, I was the one trying to micromanange a BM, and I thought I had some pretty good reasons for doing that at the time, too. >So I guess >my motive for using this response would be to get them to possibly realize >that if they want to control our 12yo, they need to go back to court and get >control.  

I think people need to be careful with the whole court thing. I’m pretty cynical about the court system these days. I think mediating a parenting plan would be a much better way to go in most situations. I found that when you go to court (go to as in spend a couple of *years* stuffing around within the court system) it tends to put people in opposite corners. It’s a bit like a boxing ring, and you’re in one corner, ex is in the other, and the referee (judge) is in the middle. It’s really hard for most people to go from that to co-parenting in a reasonable, rational manner. If I’m reading what you’re saying right, you’ve already been there once. So maybe your ex is still in the corner with his boxing gloves on (or he’s putting SM in the corner because he’s sick of your left hook) and you’re trying to get out of the ring because you’re thinking the fight is over. As for the petty stuff.. I can’t speak for your SM, but I can tell you how we felt as NCP’s. The only time we were allowed to have a say in SK’s life was when he was here with us. We felt powerless most of the time. We weren’t allowed to have a say in the really important stuff, like schooling, medical care, clothing, nutrition.. BM even yanked SK out of counselling without telling us. So yes, we did often "fight" over the petty stuff. I can’t really describe it in words, but it was like we wanted to feel like we had a say in *something*. It’s really hard to care about a child you only see four days a month. You love them *all* the time, not just the days you see them, and you wonder how they are and what is going on in their life during the other days. You want to be a part of that life as well. BM did not ever encourage SK to call us, but I think if we could have talked to him maybe two or three times a week, it would have made everything so much easier. I’m not suggesting for a *minute* that you are anything like our BM.. I know you’re not. But perhaps something I’ve said may have given you an insight into your SM.. Mel

Response:

>I found that when you go to court (go >to as in spend a couple of *years* stuffing around within the court system) >it >tends to put people in opposite corners.

This is so true.  We are getting prepared to go AGAIN in a few weeks.   We are at the point where everyone is so polarized that all our decisions regarding SD until she is an adult will be probably decided in court, even on stupid, small, petty issues.  It is a bad place to be. >It’s really hard for most people to go >from that to co-parenting in a reasonable, rational manner.

Again, so true.  The more you go to court -> the more resentment builds up -> the less agreeable you are to making co-parenting agreements with the other parent -> the more you go to court.  It is a never-ending cycle. (snip) >I’ve said may have given you an insight into >your SM..

Such a good post, Mel. ~~~~~~~~ Geri   ^   ^       >  ’  ’ < ~~~~~~~~~

Response:

One thing you might consider is taking the kids for counseling and asking him to bring them every other visit. This sort of thing does effect the kids. Merrie Marika <fla…@idx.com.au> wrote in message

news:3b97f8d9@news1.idx.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve actually attended counselling about this but I’m told *he* is the one > who should be getting help and I know that just won’t happen.

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Kathleen and Steve wrote: > I’m glad you wrote that Vicki.  I will have to think about it <grin>.  I > have not handled criticism from Kayla’s Dad (or the SM) very well.  Most of > the criticism I receive is about petty things.  Like the time I let her wear > shorts to school and it was cooler than it was supposed to be that day.

<rest of post snipped> Kathleen, we had that same scenario going on, only in reverse.  I’m the SM, and when SD was about 5 or so, when we were just past the going to court phase, BM used to contact us about the most absurd, petty things–like SD being in clothes that were too small (they weren’t) or being in shorts instead of longer pants, etc.  We found ourselves defending ourselves on the most ridiculous subjects ("It was actually xx degrees, so SD should have been fine…").  I understand how frustrating it is, and I know from getting snippy.  :-)  We tried to be calm, but BM was constantly attacking us from all sides with no justification. What interests me is that now that I have 3 BKs with DH, I find that I’m constantly making parenting mistakes.  I might forget to send a permission slip with my son, or I might dress my kids in warm clothes on a hot day, or I might lose my temper and snap at one of the kids.  But it’s *okay*.  The truth is, we all make these mistakes, and lotslotslots (etc.)  more.  But when you’re a BM or BD, you’re given the benefit of the doubt that you’re *generally* acting in your children’s best interests.  When another parent, in a co-parenting/separate household situation, is sniping at you all the time, it’s an accusation that the mere fact that you did "x" obliterates your general intent of raising your child properly.  It’s a spurious if tacit accusation, and I think it’s what can really eat at you. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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"merrie" <merri…@xcski.com> wrote in message

news:9natcl$iu7$1@allhats.xcski.com… > One thing you might consider is taking the kids for counseling and asking > him to bring them every other visit. > This sort of thing does effect the kids. > Merrie

I’ve considered taking the kids to counselling a few times in the past, this latest episode has decided me.  As for their dad taking them, that just wouldn’t happen.  He doesn’t believe in counselling, says it’s for the weak. In fact, when he learns I’ve taken the kids for counselling it will set him off again. Flaime Dream as if you’ll live forever, live as if you’ll die tomorrow

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Maybe the counselor will have some ideas on how to approach it. I would think he’d want to know what’s going on. Merrie Marika <fla…@idx.com.au> wrote in message

news:3b9b7e98@news1.idx.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "merrie" <merri…@xcski.com> wrote in message > news:9natcl$iu7$1@allhats.xcski.com… > > One thing you might consider is taking the kids for counseling and asking > > him to bring them every other visit. > > This sort of thing does effect the kids. > > Merrie > I’ve considered taking the kids to counselling a few times in the past, this > latest episode has decided me.  As for their dad taking them, that just > wouldn’t happen.  He doesn’t believe in counselling, says it’s for the weak. > In fact, when he learns I’ve taken the kids for counselling it will set him > off again. > Flaime > Dream as if you’ll live forever, live as if you’ll die tomorrow

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> When another parent, in a co-parenting/separate > household situation, is sniping at you all the time, it’s an accusation that the > mere fact that you did "x" obliterates your general intent of raising your child > properly.  It’s a spurious if tacit accusation, and I think it’s what can really > eat at you. > Jennifer

I did some work on all these resentments a while back, and asked myself "why" over and over until I got to the root problem.  It is that I have a core belief that "I am not a good parent."  I don’t know what caused me to think this, or why, but there it is.  Intellectually I know I am a great Mom, but deep down I don’t feel it.  I don’t know exactly if realizing this about myself helps – I’ve never been one for psychobabble but I’m hoping that if I can get to the root of "my stuff" then I can eventually change it. hugs, Kathleen

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"Marika" <fla…@idx.com.au> wrote in message

news:3b97f8d9@news1.idx.com.au… > It is possible he didn’t realize how his bitterness affects the children but > over time I’ve come to see that his hatred for DH and myself is overpowering > his love for them.

Flaime, I have an ex who is filled with hatred too. It is a very sad thing to see your children being hurt by their father because his hatred for somebody is more important to him than his love for his children. > I’ve actually attended counselling about this but I’m told *he* is the one > who should be getting help and I know that just won’t happen

When I thought my child was suffering because of his father I sent my child to councelling. The counceller was able to assure me that my child was handling the situation quite well. Perhaps you would feel better if you got that kind of assurance too? — joyojoy "Life wasn’t meant to be easy" (Malcome Fraser)

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>Anne, he seemed to be upset about my son’s outburst.  Out of earshot of my >son I said to him that I hoped now he would try to put the past behind him >and do what was best for his children.  His reply, "No".  Then he left.

Frankly, you shouldn’t have said that. It put him on the defensive.  In his view, you were attempting to make him feel guilt, which he refused to admit. Some people do not like to admit they are wrong.  Ever. Yes, he does need counseling, but he’s not going to get it until he faces up to the fact that he has problems.  He will never admit it to you though (unless he’s had lots of counseling, of course *s*). One thing you might want to examine is how you speak to your ex.  This is something my best friend & I were talking about today concerning her stepson, who recently came to live with them.  My friend tends to be very strict & it’s difficut for her to adjust to have an 11 yo around.  (She is also not as "fun" as when he didn’t live there, but that’s OT.)   Good luck & keep in touch. AnneH "To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might be  the world."

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In a previous article, "Kathleen and Steve" <blitz1…@nospam4me.msn.com> said: <I recently heard that saying "Oh, I never thought about that.  You might be <right about that.  I will have to think about this." can be better than <punching someone in the face, because you refuse to get caught up in their <anger.  I plan to put these lines to good use at the first available <opportunity! I think that’s a good thing to say, but only if you mean it.  If you’re saying "I’ll think about that; good point" but thinking "Yeah, when pigs *fly*, I’ll think about that!"  then you’re being patronizing and manipulative. Just because someone is being a jerk to you doesn’t give you the right to be a jerk back. Vicki — Family and Divorce Mediation Resources http://xcski.com/~mediator/

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"Anne Haas" <astafh…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message >I might be reading something that isn’t there, but what >was your ex’s reaction >to his son’s outburst?  Is it possible that he has gotten in >such a habit of >being bitter that he didn’t realize how it was affecting his >children?

Thankyou all for your messages of welcome. Anne, he seemed to be upset about my son’s outburst.  Out of earshot of my son I said to him that I hoped now he would try to put the past behind him and do what was best for his children.  His reply, "No".  Then he left. It is possible he didn’t realize how his bitterness affects the children but over time I’ve come to see that his hatred for DH and myself is overpowering his love for them. I’ve actually attended counselling about this but I’m told *he* is the one who should be getting help and I know that just won’t happen. Thanks again for your input Flaime Dream as if you’ll live forever, live as if you’ll die tomorrow.

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Welcome, Flaime. Your problems are real & they are a major concern.  They can also escalate, as you surely have noticed and that’s why you are here. Jane & Kathleen are both right on with their advice.  They are two of the incredibly smart people we have in here. I might be reading something that isn’t there, but what was your ex’s reaction to his son’s outburst?  Is it possible that he has gotten in such a habit of being bitter that he didn’t realize how it was affecting his children?  Maybe this was a good thing & your ex will start changing how he reacts.  And in case it doesn’t, practice what Kathleen suggested – "Oh, I never thought about that.  You might be right about that.  I will have to think about this."   (I like that Kathleen. What a great suggestion.) Again, welcome, Flaime. AnneH "To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might be  the world."

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>And in case >it doesn’t, practice what Kathleen suggested – "Oh, I never thought about >that. > You might be >right about that.  I will have to think about this."   (I like that Kathleen. >What a great suggestion.)

Those are good suggestions as long as you deliver the lines in a sincere manner and maybe actually do consider what he has to say.  Our BM often says, "Hmm, I’ll have to think about that".  What that really means is, "I will say this now, but really I am going to ignore that we had this whole conversation and do what I damn well please, no matter what damage it causes." ~~~~~~~~ Geri   ^   ^       >  ’  ’ < ~~~~~~~~~

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wouldn’t get too caught up in it.  I think kids can be fine with one parent > being bitter as long as they don’t get caught in the crossfire.  So your ex is > having trouble handling the end of an important life relationship – he’s > certainly not alone.  Most people need some time to work things through. > Until he gets a grip, if he ever does, you can just refuse to escalate things > on your end.  If you think that the pick up and drop off is likely to be a > problem again, you can make arrangements for some alternative where you, DH, > and your ex don’t actually meet. > If he doesn’t get abusive and you don’t feel battered, I think it’s good to > listen to his criticism of your parenting.  Not in front of the children, of > course.  It might also help if you look for things you can agree with in what > he says. If you acknowledge any of his concerns as valid and try to incorporate > his feelings and wishes in your parenting, that could make him feel less cut > out of the children’s life.  He’s as much the kids’ parent as you are, and I > suspect he sees his role as being usurped by DH. > I know it’s hard when he’s being a goon and disagreeing with everything you do. >  But maybe you’ve gotten into the habit of ignoring everything he says too.  No > matter how bad your marriage was, he must be right about something, somewhere, > that involves parenting the kids.  Work with that. > jane

I recently heard that saying "Oh, I never thought about that.  You might be right about that.  I will have to think about this." can be better than punching someone in the face, because you refuse to get caught up in their anger.  I plan to put these lines to good use at the first available opportunity! With hope and heart, Kathleen

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