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parenting, SOs, and alters

Question:

Hi Jeff I have heard that sometimes a little will refer to the SO as Mom or Dad (purely in a positive sense).

I know that sometimes my littles perceive my SO as my f*ther, but only on occasions that he is angry. Other times I can feel that they would like very much to be parented by him, but that is not the kind of relationship we have and I don’t think it’s really healthy, but the want, the need is def. there. We have never called him D*d though. Something sounds wrong about this, but I’m not sure what it is. Aside from the fact that one of these people could have been responsible for the condition, what are your thoughts?

I think if at all possible, it would be best if our littles knew that he is Grace’s partner and not our parent. Makes for many more triggers the other way round. For us at any rate. I know that SOs have to have or develop certain parenting skills, but the label (Mom or Dad) makes me uneasy. Is this healthy? RC?

Just a few of our thoughts, Grace peoples – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks.

Response:

I have heard that sometimes a little will refer to the SO as Mom or Dad (purely in a positive sense). Something sounds wrong about this, but I’m not sure what it is. Aside from the fact that one of these people could have been responsible for the condition, what are your thoughts? I know that SOs have to have or develop certain parenting skills, but the label (Mom or Dad) makes me uneasy. Is this healthy? RC? Thanks.

Response:

Umm… there is a school of t’py that talks about reparenting. The t’pist takes the place of what was incorrectly received as a child or not received at all. There is at least one book written by a multiple who used this approach with her t’pist. The biggest problem with this is the very very high likelihood of abuse. To be put into the role of parent implies a certain type of relationship. For the t’pist to be in this role and still maintain very strong healthy boundaries seems next to impossible to me. I personally would never use this approach with a client and would never work with a t’pist who used this approach with me. I just don’t think the risk is worth it. As for SOs acting in this role. That seems down right dangerous! I agree that some parenting _like_ skills are used by SOs but the overall style is still equal to equal, SO to SO, friend to friend. There are so many other dynamics that enter into a parental relationship that I can’t imagine how it could be healthy for a SO to get into this. I can understand why inside kids might call an external person mom or dad but I would hope that this external person would be able to identify for that inside kid that while there are some things that are done that are _like_ a mom or dad, the external person is _not_ the mom or dad and can never be. Be tactful and all that of course. Overall, I’d have to say that if the inside kid is putting the SO into this role they are setting themselves up for a _big_ let down eventually! Imagine the first time the SO is tired and feeling ill and had a hard day at work and reacts to the inside kid as if sie were an equal. That could be devestating in a totally innocent and justifiable way. It would also make it very very complicated if/when the inside kid ever did any growing up. The bottom line at all times is that what the kid lost as a kid can’t ever be replaced. This is a very deep sadness that has to be grieved and dealt with. Finding a substitute just puts off the inevitable. The person (system) has to learn to provide for hirself(s) what was missed out on and do the nurturing and parenting internally. If an external person does this instead it doesn’t allow the one in need a chance to learn and grow. Rainbow Colors (Jill) — The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing we are becoming white light.

Response:

I have heard that sometimes a little will refer to the SO as Mom or Dad (purely in a positive sense). I know that sometimes my littles perceive my SO as my f*ther, but only on occasions that he is angry.

Yeah, I become the bad person too sometimes. Other times I can feel that they would like very much to be parented by him, but that is not the kind of relationship we have and I don’t think it’s really healthy, but the want, the need is def. there.

How do you think it would hurt for him to do some minor parenting? Just obvious stuff. Thanks!

Response:

Gee, I wish someone had explained it that way before my own therapy his large arms, that I’ve always found attractive remind me of the huge arms that came at me via Mom. Doesn’t bother me as far as triggering. Cause these arms don’t hit.

Excellent. I’m glad the negative asociation doesn’t get made.

Response:

no disagreements with what RC said below. I also want to add a serious concern I’d have, which is that the SO is also going to be having an adult intimate relationship with folks in the system. the potential for reenacting inc*st experiences (even if everyone thinks the little is gone at those times) is *way* *way* *WAY* too great for my comfort. astri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Umm… there is a school of t’py that talks about reparenting. The t’pist takes the place of what was incorrectly received as a child or not received at all. There is at least one book written by a multiple who used this approach with her t’pist. The biggest problem with this is the very very high likelihood of abuse. To be put into the role of parent implies a certain type of relationship. For the t’pist to be in this role and still maintain very strong healthy boundaries seems next to impossible to me. I personally would never use this approach with a client and would never work with a t’pist who used this approach with me. I just don’t think the risk is worth it. As for SOs acting in this role. That seems down right dangerous! I agree that some parenting _like_ skills are used by SOs but the overall style is still equal to equal, SO to SO, friend to friend. There are so many other dynamics that enter into a parental relationship that I can’t imagine how it could be healthy for a SO to get into this. I can understand why inside kids might call an external person mom or dad but I would hope that this external person would be able to identify for that inside kid that while there are some things that are done that are _like_ a mom or dad, the external person is _not_ the mom or dad and can never be. Be tactful and all that of course. Overall, I’d have to say that if the inside kid is putting the SO into this role they are setting themselves up for a _big_ let down eventually! Imagine the first time the SO is tired and feeling ill and had a hard day at work and reacts to the inside kid as if sie were an equal. That could be devestating in a totally innocent and justifiable way. It would also make it very very complicated if/when the inside kid ever did any growing up. The bottom line at all times is that what the kid lost as a kid can’t ever be replaced. This is a very deep sadness that has to be grieved and dealt with. Finding a substitute just puts off the inevitable. The person (system) has to learn to provide for hirself(s) what was missed out on and do the nurturing and parenting internally. If an external person does this instead it doesn’t allow the one in need a chance to learn and grow. Rainbow Colors (Jill) — The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing we are becoming white light.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard that sometimes a little will refer to the SO as Mom or Dad (purely in a positive sense). Something sounds wrong about this, but I’m not sure what it is. Aside from the fact that one of these people could have been responsible for the condition, what are your thoughts? I know that SOs have to have or develop certain parenting skills, but the label (Mom or Dad) makes me uneasy. Is this healthy? RC? Thanks. Umm… there is a school of t’py that talks about reparenting. The t’pist takes the place of what was incorrectly received as a child or not received at all. There is at least one book written by a multiple who used this approach with her t’pist. The biggest problem with this is the very very high likelihood of abuse. To be put into the role of parent implies a certain type of relationship. For the t’pist to be in this role and still maintain very strong healthy boundaries seems next to impossible to me. I personally would never use this approach with a client and would never work with a t’pist who used this approach with me. I just don’t think the risk is worth it. As for SOs acting in this role. That seems down right dangerous! I agree that some parenting _like_ skills are used by SOs but the overall style is still equal to equal, SO to SO, friend to friend. There are so many other dynamics that enter into a parental relationship that I can’t imagine how it could be healthy for a SO to get into this. I can understand why inside kids might call an external person mom or dad but I would hope that this external person would be able to identify for that inside kid that while there are some things that are done that are _like_ a mom or dad, the external person is _not_ the mom or dad and can never be. Be tactful and all that of course. Overall, I’d have to say that if the inside kid is putting the SO into this role they are setting themselves up for a _big_ let down eventually! Imagine the first time the SO is tired and feeling ill and had a hard day at work and reacts to the inside kid as if sie were an equal. That could be devestating in a totally innocent and justifiable way. It would also make it very very complicated if/when the inside kid ever did any growing up. The bottom line at all times is that what the kid lost as a kid can’t ever be replaced. This is a very deep sadness that has to be grieved and dealt with. Finding a substitute just puts off the inevitable. The person (system) has to learn to provide for hirself(s) what was missed out on and do the nurturing and parenting internally. If an external person does this instead it doesn’t allow the one in need a chance to learn and grow. Rainbow Colors (Jill) — The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing we are becoming white light. Hi, Jill, Jeff , Astri and everyone else, this seemed to fit with what

you are discussing, in a way, anyway. I have recently had a problem with the small inner ones wanting my t to hold their hand when they are scared. They e-mailed him this info and he wrote back that touching would not be okay for others in there, and that the college of physicians say no way! After the littles refused to be consoled all that night, and cried and cried inside, he wrote to them that he would hold them in his heart! Problem solved! They were delighted with this, and all I have to do is tell them that he will hearthold them and they are fine. Weird, eh!? Jane

Response:

[...] Hi, Jill, Jeff , astri and everyone else, this seemed to fit with what you are discussing, in a way, anyway. I have recently had a problem with the small inner ones wanting my t to hold their hand when they are scared. They e-mailed him this info and he wrote back that touching would not be okay for others in there, and that the college of physicians say no way! After the littles refused to be consoled all that night, and cried and cried inside, he wrote to them that he would hold them in his heart! Problem solved! They were delighted with this, and all I have to do is tell them that he will hearthold them and they are fine. Weird, eh!? Jane

no, not wierd. I think this was a good compromise. astri

Response:

I have a friend whose most vocal little wanted me to be her M*mm* very much. I thought that the very idea of that might alienate others in the system, so the solution we came up with was that Scott and I would be her g*dp*r*nts. There for support and love and comfort, but not in the role of actual p*r*nt. This has worked out well in this particular situation, as all the littles seem to be comfortable with that idea. I think it must be difficult for SO’s not to be perceived as p*r*nts, at least part of the time, because they are always there and always (hopefully) in a protective loving mode. Margaret "You are braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think." Christopher Robin to Pooh in "Pooh’s Grand Adventure"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard that sometimes a little will refer to the SO as Mom or Dad (purely in a positive sense). I know that sometimes my littles perceive my SO as my f*ther, but only on occasions that he is angry. Yeah, I become the bad person too sometimes. Other times I can feel that they would like very much to be parented by him, but that is not the kind of relationship we have and I don’t think it’s really healthy, but the want, the need is def. there. How do you think it would hurt for him to do some minor parenting? Just obvious stuff.

I don’t think it would hurt Jeff. It hurts that he doesn’t Grace – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks!

Response:

My experience with deBorah, Debbie and Zoe is that they attach a ‘concept-title’ of "Guardian" to people they want to help them out. Our first th who worked with all of us was still a resident and young, when we were being treated by him. In retrospect he took on the role of a "guardian" with deBorah but was very good at setting boundaries. When deBorah finally reemerged she was only 2 1/2 in terms of life experience and very excited to know that we had moved over 2,000 miles from Detroit. Her impulsiveness had to be reined in for her own protection. He seemed to more or less make suggestions and talk them over with her. A couple of times she went over the edge in interpreting those suggestions, he dealt with that but never in what I felt was a parental mode. It was a fine line to walk. I think his intuition played a large role in it. But overall he put down a structure for her to follow. I think you’re in a delicate position here Jeff you may want to try and adapt the "guardian" type role with the littles and see how it goes. Just another word for the previous suggestion of g*dp*rent. Good luck. Deborah

Response:

snippage… Hi, Jill, Jeff , Astri and everyone else, this seemed to fit with what you are discussing, in a way, anyway. I have recently had a problem with the small inner ones wanting my t to hold their hand when they are scared. They e-mailed him this info and he wrote back that touching would not be okay for others in there, and that the college of physicians say no way! After the littles refused to be consoled all that night, and cried and cried inside, he wrote to them that he would hold them in his heart! Problem solved! They were delighted with this, and all I have to do is tell them that he will hearthold them and they are fine. Weird, eh!? Jane

I’m glad you all found a solution that works. I find it sad that so many t’pists are missing the point. As a general rule the idea of touching a client is considered healthy and positive (of course we are talking about holding a hand or briefly touching a shoulder). If you had any other label my guess is that your t’pist wouldn’t even think twice about something as reassuring as this. Very very few psychological philosophies say ‘no touching’. But when it comes to survivors it’s as if t’pists have forgotten that we are human beings first. Of course there are boundaries and common sense and limits and a t’peutic understanding of _why_ the touching happens, but if you are talking to a client who is crying and in pain and you touch their hand as you hand them a kleenx, this is considered good empathy and a way to show support, unless the client is a survivor. Just what we need, to grow up feeling there is something wrong with us and wrong with touching and then have it reinforced by t’pists afraid of their own ability to have a healthy boundary about safe touch The best t’pist to work with a survivor (imo of course:) would be one who is clear on all of these issues and knows when a safe human touch would be best _and_ when/how to offer this as an option so that the client gets the support they need. The only difference I can see working with survivors (vs non-survivors) is that you _always_ open issue with survivors. I would _NEVER_ touch a survivor without talking about it first and having both of us very clear on what was going on. It would be only _after_ the client said it was ok that I would touch. With non-survivors it isn’t as crucial that I make this an intentional topic of discussion. I just pay careful attention to non-verbal clues and let common sense be my guide. It’s simply a matter of being more open and direct with survivors about issues that are taken for granted with others. Here’s a good example. I once had a client who had no abuse history. She was talking to me about stuff that was very painful and difficult for her but it was clear that there were no survivor issues. One day she walked into the office and just gave me a hug. No comments before. She sat down and just started talking. My first reaction was to bring up the hug and discuss it. I stopped myself and just listened to her. She had had a rough week end and clearly just needed a hug. No secret agenda, no hidden issues. So I didn’t mention it. At the end of the session we both stood up and she said ‘that first hug worked so well, I’d like another’ and gave me another hug without waiting for my comment. Again, very spontaneous, healthy, natural and healing. Had I mentioned it I would have made her uncomfortable and that would have been the last thing that would have helped her right then! Even with all _my_ issues about touching I could tell that this was a healthy thing for her to have done. Believe me, she was unaware of it but she taught me a lot that day!!! Rainbow Colors (Jill) — The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing we are becoming white light.

Response:

Other times I can feel that they would like very much to be parented by him, but that is not the kind of relationship we have and I don’t think it’s really healthy, but the want, the need is def. there. How do you think it would hurt for him to do some minor parenting? Just obvious stuff. I don’t think it would hurt Jeff. It hurts that he doesn’t

I wish that he did and hope that he will.

Response:

I think it must be difficult for SO’s not to be perceived as p*r*nts, at least part of the time, because they are always there and always (hopefully) in a protective loving mode.

As another view: whenever I, as a SO, have to say no, I become the bad person. We are frequently put there by our DID SOs.

Response:

I know that SOs have to have or develop certain parenting skills, but the label (Mom or Dad) makes me uneasy. Is this healthy? RC? As for SOs acting in this role. That seems down right dangerous! I agree that some parenting _like_ skills are used by SOs but the overall style is still equal to equal, SO to SO, friend to friend.

Bingo. I know we have to do a small amount of parenting (while not assuming the role). I can understand why inside kids might call an external person mom or dad but I would hope that this external person would be able to identify for that inside kid that while there are some things that are done that are _like_ a mom or dad, the external person is _not_ the

And I’ll forward this to the person who asked. Thanks.

Response:

The bottom line at all times is that what the kid lost as a kid can’t ever be replaced. This is a very deep sadness that has to be grieved and dealt with. Finding a substitute just puts off the inevitable. The person (system) has to learn to provide for hirself(s) what was missed out on and do the nurturing and parenting internally. If an external person does this instead it doesn’t allow the one in need a chance to learn and grow. Rainbow Colors (Jill)

I disagree here with what you say. I think that this is not a role for a SO – too many confusing things about that, and too many opportunities for abuse. I think that the way therapy is structured makes it hard for the therapist to be that either. I don’t think however that if someone else were to parent it wouldn’t allow for the individual, or child part to grow, just the opposite. That seems to me like saying that starving someone will somehow give them the incentive to find food. This might be true, or they might die trying, If they don’t know how, how are they going to learn, and fill in those gaps unless they have the opportunity to have those relational responses that parents and kids have – that define the relationship. It’s not something one just learns themselves. That’s why disfunction breeds disfunction. If we could pick it up on our own we would have by watcching our peers, or tv or something, but it doesn’t work that way. ACESTAR

Response:

hmmm.. spoiler just in case a b c d e f g h i j k l m well this probably won’t work for others.. but most of our littles call our SO their big brother.. he’ll read them stories.. and stuff.. or just hold them if they want to cry.. That may help with connection to some things. hope we helped.. Wind to thy wings Gryphons

Response:

this is an interesting topic. my therapist would say using a SO for parenting purposes is an enmeshed relationship and that the issues should be discussed in therapy. i know this leaves a lot unsaid because there are things that just come up out of therapists office, but there has to be some boundries with SO’s. I think this is one of the big reasons why my SO and I broke up. Also, I feel a therapist, friend, boss, teacher, whoever can be, maybe not a *substitute* for a parent, but surely as a positive transferance experience. ya know like when the littles come out and the therapist responds in a good way. I disagree here with what you say. I think that this is not a role for a SO – too many confusing things about that, and too many opportunities for abuse. I think that the way therapy is structured makes it hard for the therapist to be that either.

I don’t want to agree with this, but I think my thereapist does. Don’t totally understand this though…… I don’t think however that if someone else were to parent it wouldn’t allow for the individual, or child part to grow, just the opposite. That seems to me

I agree and my therapist has encouraged me to find a new parent, one that gives me what I need. like saying that starving someone will somehow give them the incentive to find food. This might be true, or they might die trying, If they don’t know how, how are they going to learn, and fill in those gaps unless they have the opportunity to have those relational responses that parents and kids have – that define the relationship. It’s not something one just learns themselves. That’s why disfunction breeds disfunction. If we could pick it up on our own we would have by watcching our peers, or tv or something, but it doesn’t work that way. ACESTAR

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Response:

Hi, Jill, Jeff , Astri and everyone else, this seemed to fit with what you are discussing, in a way, anyway. I have recently had a problem with the small inner ones wanting my t to hold their hand when they are scared. They e-mailed him this info and he wrote back that touching would not be okay for others in there, and that the college of physicians say no way! After the littles refused to be consoled all that night, and cried and cried inside, he wrote to them that he would hold them in his heart! Problem solved! They were delighted with this, and all I have to do is tell them that he will hearthold them and they are fine. Weird, eh!? Jane

i wishthat sometimes somone would hearthold me so i don’t have to feed the sharks anymor chum

Response:

I guess I feel the need to apologize for this post slipping out. Chum has a specific function and I don’t want anyone to think that I am trying to get any of that sappy crap that we grew up wanting and then I realized that it’s never going to come our way. I am well aware that the happy sweet dripping stuff that people pass back and forth is not meant for us because we can never hold on to it. F**k Off

Response:

Everyone is worthy of being heartheld. The little one is held in our heart right now, as well as you, I can identify with how you feel. Ok if we hearthold you also? Deb

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Jill, Jeff , Astri and everyone else, this seemed to fit with what you are discussing, in a way, anyway. I have recently had a problem with the small inner ones wanting my t to hold their hand when they are scared. They e-mailed him this info and he wrote back that touching would not be okay for others in there, and that the college of physicians say no way! After the littles refused to be consoled all that night, and cried and cried inside, he wrote to them that he would hold them in his heart! Problem solved! They were delighted with this, and all I have to do is tell them that he will hearthold them and they are fine. Weird, eh!? Jane i wishthat sometimes somone would hearthold me so i don’t have to feed the sharks anymor chum I guess I feel the need to apologize for this post slipping out. Chum has a specific function and I don’t want anyone to think that I am trying to get any of that sappy crap that we grew up wanting and then I realized that it’s never going to come our way. I am well aware that the happy sweet dripping stuff that people pass back and forth is not meant for us because we can never hold on to it. F**k Off

F**k Off ismean chum

Response:

[...] little spoiler for feelings x x x x i wishthat sometimes somone would hearthold me so i don’t have to feed the sharks anymor chum

hi chum. Wish I could say ‘consider it done’. But I think heartholding is too awesome a thing for someone who doesn’t know you much to say online. I and other people here do care though. I guess I feel the need to apologize for this post slipping out. Chum has a specific function and I don’t want anyone to think that I am trying to get any of that sappy crap that we grew up wanting and then I realized that it’s never going to come our way. I am well aware that the happy sweet dripping stuff that people pass back and forth is not meant for us because we can never hold on to it. F**k Off

hi F**k Off. I know hwat you mean. It’s h*ll to keep on hoping when the disappointment is too much and too long, isn’t it? It was really really hard for me to hope again, to admit again that I wanted love. But it has happened, with a lot of work and therapy, and life is better now. Take care, Lionheart F**k Off ismean chum

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Response:

Dear Chum: I didn’t think it was mean, I think it was just said because someone felt kind of mad. Once again we are heartholding all of you. Deborah and deBorah

Response:

Dear Chum: I didn’t think it was mean, I think it was just said because someone felt kind of mad. Once again we are heartholding all of you. Deborah and deBorah

Thankyou. Siram isn’t around rit now and i am tired from fighting with F**k Off. Chum

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