Act Acting » Acting School » some whining…

some whining…

Question:

But being loved and wanting to be loved is what makes us human.  "The greatest of these is love." *hug* Rainstar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am revealed to be naught but a pitiable creature, desperate for attention, admiration, love. will it ever stop? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

– To e-mail remove extra from address

Response:

A source is to be found at the center. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i am revealed to be naught but a pitiable creature, desperate for attention, admiration, love. will it ever stop? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

Well, to "unpack" what I meant – I guess it’s a bit like a joke – when you unpack it, it doesn’t quite mean the same thing and isn’t funny. But – in this case, it unpacks a little differently for everyone, I guess, and you just did your own unpacking. I have been doing a lot of reaching for my own center, lately – looking to center myself rather than look to others for a sense of identity. And also, for me, there is a center or source to be reached for beyond myself, which is part of reaching for the center within myself. That’s about as good a job as I can do, I think, at getting at what *I* was thinking when I wrote it. But the words were given to me to write – and the meaning – well – I guess it is kind of like a finger pointing, and you read your meaning. I guess that must have been how it was meant to be. And, by the way, I agree w/you that it is pretty much always easier to be angry than to be most anything else. But that’s just my personal perspective. Maybe that’s because I "do" anger so very, very well. However – I think that in many, many cases, anger is a top layer, underneath which lie other layers of feelings and meanings to be found if one is willing to work the anger through to the point of being able to let it go and go beneath. Oh, man, do I sound like someone who knows what she’s talking about. Huh. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – likely, then, that this problem is coupled with the anger i spoke of earlier today? i am angry, and therefore scared, so i reject the source of my anger to reject my fear… much easier being angry. thanks, tho.  i know that you’re right. jt A source is to be found at the center. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. i am revealed to be naught but a pitiable creature, desperate for attention, admiration, love. will it ever stop? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

i am revealed to be naught but a pitiable creature, desperate for attention, admiration, love. will it ever stop? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

likely, then, that this problem is coupled with the anger i spoke of earlier today? i am angry, and therefore scared, so i reject the source of my anger to reject my fear… much easier being angry. thanks, tho.  i know that you’re right. jt

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A source is to be found at the center. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. i am revealed to be naught but a pitiable creature, desperate for attention, admiration, love. will it ever stop? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

tough break, sounding like something you are… ;) like having a nickname that perfectly describes you… sheesh.  hard life, beauts.  ;)  (said in a spirit of gentle teasing, not meant unkindly) spoilered for sp*r*tuality . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . my conception of sp*r*tuality fits with what u unpacked.  i got to that step, but skipped right over it to the next one for me. i go by the theory that love is the unifying force in the universe, down to it being the thingy that holds atoms together, keeps electrons spinning in their orbits, etc… it’s the opposite of chaos, of entropy.  i conceptualize love in much the same way that i do electricity, if that helps any. so, by my reckoning, very literally G*d *IS* love. everything in the universe is … drenched in it, can’t escape from it, exists within a framework of love.  making the mental effort to deny love puts one out of step with the universe. what’s getting to me now is that to deny, suppress, box up, ignore my anger, is putting me out of step with the universe.  the little voice inside that i hear when i do reach for the core tells me to open the door to that anger. and i don’t want to. so i’m miserable. there’s a song out now, on the rock stations, that affects me if i sing it as written, but breaks down the barriers inside so i can cry if i change "boy" to "girl", so it works for me. "I am nothing more than a little girl inside, who cries out for attention, though i always try to hide…"  It’s usually as i sing the word "girl" when i’m singing along that i feel the reaction inside.  I didn’t even get as far as that today. and i’m twitching again, so i really do need to go do the stuffies thing.  or the hot cocoa thing.  the kid’s being cute…patient, but not letting me forget that she needs attention. but she’s also not running in fear and not asking me for what she needs. i guess i gotta take any sign of progress as progress, huh? thanks for being you, beauty.  i like you. jt (Nathan, and whoever else – we’re switching a lot today)

Well, to "unpack" what I meant – I guess it’s a bit like a joke – when you unpack it, it doesn’t quite mean the same thing and isn’t funny. But – in this case, it unpacks a little differently for everyone, I guess, and you just did your own unpacking. I have been doing a lot of reaching for my own center, lately – looking to center myself rather than look to others for a sense of identity. And also, for me, there is a center or source to be reached for

beyond myself, which is part of reaching for the center within myself. That’s about as good a job as I can do, I think, at

getting at what *I* was thinking when I wrote it. But the words were given to me to write – and the meaning – well – I guess it is kind of like a finger

pointing, and you read – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – your meaning. I guess that must have been how it was meant to be. And, by the way, I agree w/you that it is pretty much always easier to be angry than to be most anything else. But that’s just my personal perspective. Maybe that’s because I "do" anger so very, very well. However – I think that in many, many cases, anger is a top layer, underneath which lie other layers of feelings and meanings to be found if one is willing to work the anger through to the point of being able to let it go and go beneath. Oh, man, do I sound like someone who knows what she’s talking about. Huh. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. likely, then, that this problem is coupled with the anger i spoke of earlier today? i am angry, and therefore scared, so i reject the source of my anger to reject my fear… much easier being angry. thanks, tho.  i know that you’re right. jt message A source is to be found at the center. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. i am revealed to be naught but a pitiable creature, desperate for attention, admiration, love. will it ever stop? jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa

Response:

You know, I always feel so weird entering into a thread where two people are having a conversation.  It feels like I am an intruder, and that the people having the conversation will roll their eyes in exasperation at the intrusion.  With that said, please excuse the intrusion as I write below: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tough break, sounding like something you are… ;) like having a nickname that perfectly describes you… sheesh. hard life, beauts. ;) (said in a spirit of gentle teasing, not meant unkindly) spoilered for sp*r*tuality .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. my conception of sp*r*tuality fits with what u unpacked. i got to that step, but skipped right over it to the next one for me. i go by the theory that love is the unifying force in the universe, down to it being the thingy that holds atoms together, keeps electrons spinning in their orbits, etc… it’s the opposite of chaos, of entropy. i conceptualize love in much the same way that i do electricity, if that helps any.

yes, yes!!….my thoughts are quite similar…. so, by my reckoning, very literally G*d *IS* love. everything in the universe is … drenched in it, can’t escape from it, exists within a framework of love. making the mental effort to deny love puts one out of step with the universe.

yes, again, my thoughts are similar….. BTW, have you read Bishop Sp*ng’s latest book?  It is quite interesting, and refreshing. what’s getting to me now is that to deny, suppress, box up, ignore my anger, is putting me out of step with the universe. the little voice inside that i hear when i do reach for the core tells me to open the door to that anger. and i don’t want to. so i’m miserable.

:(     there’s a song out now, on the rock stations, that affects me if i sing it as written, but breaks down the barriers inside so i can cry if i change "boy" to "girl", so it works for me. "I am nothing more than a little girl inside, who cries out for attention, though i always try to hide…" It’s usually as i sing the word "girl" when i’m singing along that i feel the reaction inside. I didn’t even get as far as that today.

Ah….epiphany……I have mentally referred to this song as "my dissociation song" since the first time I heard it last December.  I used to listen to it over and over again in the car (can a CD wear out?), and had a really vivid inner world experience one day after therapy as this song played.  Everyone was there inside at the same time.  I wrote all about it to someone…. if I can find it, I’ll send it in email, if you are interested.  Actually, I think it was shortly after cs and blue were talking, so perhaps it was another instance of you acting as a catalyst (heehee…sounds funny).  Maybe you were the one I wrote about it to?? CS thinks the whole experience was as corny as all get-out, but i think it was very important.  I can certainly understand why this song affects you so. Anyway…..TIA for allowing me to interrupt your discussion….(Hi, Beauty…I have been very interested in things you have been writing as well, about looking to center yourself and not looking to others for sense of identity…..there are just so many really important and interesting discussions going on that I am very excited about yet too overwhelmed to jump in)   Oh well……guess I’d best get back to studying.  or sleeping. dove PS-  Can’t find the post, but felt very sad for you when you were asked to sing that song.  Music is so, so powerful. Even the most innocuous song can be paired with something so ugly, making the song so very horrific and painful.  You should have had the opportunity to decline. Did you? The other day, my son came home from school singing a song that my p*rp used to sing to me (only my p*rp had changed some of the words, turning this innocent song into a sick, lurid …..never mind, starting to leave…can’t go there now)   Anyway, I felt so sad for y’all having to sing something that is so painful to you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and i’m twitching again, so i really do need to go do the stuffies thing. or the hot cocoa thing. the kid’s being cute…patient, but not letting me forget that she needs attention. but she’s also not running in fear and not asking me for what she needs i guess i gotta take any sign of progress as progress, huh? thanks for being you, beauty. i like you. jt (Nathan, and whoever else – we’re switching a lot today) Well, to "unpack" what I meant – I guess it’s a bit like a joke – when you unpack it, it doesn’t quite mean the same thing and isn’t funny. But – in this case, it unpacks a little differently for everyone, I guess, and you just did your own unpacking. I have been doing a lot of reaching for my own center, lately – looking to center myself rather than look to others for a sense of identity. And also, for me, there is a center or source to be reached for beyond myself, which is part of reaching for the center within myself. That’s about as good a job as I can do, I think, at getting at what *I* was thinking when I wrote it. But the words were given to me to write – and the meaning – well – I guess it is kind of like a finger pointing, and you read your meaning. I guess that must have been how it was meant to be. And, by the way, I agree w/you that it is pretty much always easier to be angry than to be most anything else. But that’s just my personal perspective. Maybe that’s because I "do" anger so very, very well. However – I think that in many, many cases, anger is a top layer, underneath which lie other layers of feelings and meanings to be found if one is willing to work the anger through to the point of being able to let it go and go beneath. Oh, man, do I sound like someone who knows what she’s talking about. Huh. Beauty. — To email me, remove "nospam" from my address. likely, then, that this problem is coupled with the anger i spoke of earlier today? i am angry, and therefore scared, so i reject the source of my anger to reject my fear… much easier being angry. thanks, tho. i know that you’re right. jt

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Response:

the more the merrier. if we wanted this to be a private conversation that no one else could join in on, we’d take it to email. i apologize for not being able to sugar-coat my words the way i normally do so that they’re tailor-made with you in mind (i do this with everyone i write to, not just you). you probably won’t know the difference, since it’s only in my own mind that i need to do this.  but i shut my emotions off a little while ago, and am feeling rather d**d inside. Jen is convinced that you’re going to react badly to …the abruptness with which i’m communicating.  let me try again, from the start: please feel welcome to join in any thread i’m writing on, even if it’s a long exchange between me and one other person.  i welcome your thoughts and observations just as much as anyone else’s. …they’re teaching me to function like them even when i don’t care about anything.  "cuz it’s always raining in my head…forget all the things i should have said…"  the theory goes that if i write for long enough, something will hurt and i’ll cry. Jen is miserable at this point, because I’m botching this response to you so badly.  I’m being narcissistic in my need to process my own thoughts and feelings as they come up, rather than focusing on what I’m theoretically engaged in doing: responding to you, regarding what you wrote. You know, I always feel so weird entering into a thread where two people are having a conversation.  It feels like I am an

intruder, and that the people having the conversation will roll their eyes in exasperation at the intrusion.  With that said, please excuse the

intrusion as I write below:

dyenths said inside: "no roll eyes.  no zasprashun".  i’m sure she’d do exclamation points and head nods were she on first. spoiler updated to include graphic imagery, well splatted, of phys/emot p**n – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – tough break, sounding like something you are… ;) like having a nickname that perfectly describes you… sheesh. hard life, beauts. ;) (said in a spirit of gentle teasing, not meant unkindly) spoilered for sp*r*tuality .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. my conception of sp*r*tuality fits with what u unpacked. i got to that step, but skipped right over it to the next one for me. i go by the theory that love is the unifying force in the universe, down to it being the thingy that holds atoms together, keeps electrons spinning in their orbits, etc… it’s the opposite of chaos, of entropy. i conceptualize love in much the same way that i do electricity, if that helps any. yes, yes!!….my thoughts are quite similar….

i liked it when you said this.  i’m sorry i can’t be more eloquent than that.  but anything i could come up with that would fit perfectly here would mean the same thing.  "i’m glad we’re making sense to each other" "kewl" "really? oh wow, that’s awesome!" (can you get a sense for how rarely we let some parts talk here?) all of those phrases fit better here than what i said.  but they all mean the same thing. why should i change my words just because i *can* phrase something better? so, by my reckoning, very literally G*d *IS* love. everything in the universe is … drenched in it, can’t escape from it, exists within a framework of love. making the mental effort to deny love puts one out of step with the universe. yes, again, my thoughts are similar….. BTW, have you read Bishop Sp*ng’s latest book?  It is quite interesting, and refreshing.

no, i have not.  i would probably get triggered by it, unless "bishop" is the man’s first name, and not his title. my mthr left rlgs books littering the house in the hopes that i’d be bored, find the title interesting, and read it. i have issues reading rlgs books. fwiw, i have never processed my emotions on being given rlgs pr*yer books by my fthr for my birthday in March.  Yet one more thing frozen on ice because… I’m sorry.  I can’t go there.  Bitterness threatens to break free.  <We mustn’t have *that* now, *must* we?? *sneers* what’s getting to me now is that to deny, suppress, box up, ignore my anger, is putting me out of step with the universe. the little voice inside that i hear when i do reach for the core tells me to open the door to that anger. and i don’t want to. so i’m miserable.

I should think this might sound familiar to you.  CS is undoubtedly miserable for these very reasons I have stated. He is out of step with the universe. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – there’s a song out now, on the rock stations, that affects me if i sing it as written, but breaks down the barriers inside so i can cry if i change "boy" to "girl", so it works for me. "I am nothing more than a little girl inside, who cries out for attention, though i always try to hide…" It’s usually as i sing the word "girl" when i’m singing along that i feel the reaction inside. I didn’t even get as far as that today. Ah….epiphany……I have mentally referred to this song as "my dissociation song" since the first time I heard it last December.  I used to listen to it over and over again in the car (can a CD wear out?), and had a really vivid inner world experience one day after therapy as this song played.  Everyone was there inside at the same time. I wrote all about it to someone…. if I can find it, I’ll send it in email, if you are interested.  Actually, I think it was shortly after cs and blue were talking, so perhaps it was another instance of you acting as a catalyst (heehee…sounds funny).  Maybe you were the one I wrote about it to?? CS thinks the whole experience was as corny as all

get-out, but i think it was very important.  I can certainly understand why this song affects you so.

I, too, have an aversion to "corny", (though "Korn-y" would be fine with me. *thinks about grinning*), but I also understand that corny is important to the girls. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyway…..TIA for allowing me to interrupt your discussion….(Hi, Beauty…I have been very interested in things you have been writing as well, about looking to center yourself and not looking to others for sense of identity…..there are just so many really important and interesting discussions going on that I am very excited about yet too overwhelmed to jump in)   Oh well……guess I’d best get back to studying.  or sleeping. dove PS-  Can’t find the post, but felt very sad for you when you were asked to sing that song.  Music is so, so powerful. Even the most innocuous song can be paired with something so ugly, making the song so very horrific and painful.  You should have had the opportunity to decline. Did you?

Ended up so triggery and dissy that morn that I showed up literally 5 min b4 the svc started.  They’d given the song to the other soprano soloist to sing.  I stayed in the svc just long enough to sing the anthem with the choir, then left during a pr*yer.  That’s 2 weeks in a row that I’ve left because I was crying. But at least this way I didn’t have to hear the song at all, though I did hear part of the scripture reading of the same text. I hate this.  I hate being useless and undependable.  I hate not being able to just shut stuff off the way I used to . It angers me that it hurts others inside when I do that.  I want my control back.  I want the fl*sh under my b**t h**ls (oo, ee) to be expecting to feel the gr*nding p**n; to be resigned to it.  I don’t want to gr*nd down the way I used to be able to do, and feel fresh p**n, fresh ang**sh, bright red urgent bl**d welling out like there’s actually something wrong, instead of the listless, sluggish reaction I used to get…back when causing the p**n had its own payoff because at least then i could *feel* something… …this might be working… it’s not fair… *manages a small handful of tears* The other day, my son came home from school singing a song that my p*rp used to sing to me (only my p*rp had changed some of the words, turning this innocent song into a sick, lurid …..never mind, starting to leave…can’t go there now)   Anyway, I felt so sad for y’all having to sing something that is so painful to you.

i never had to sing it.  i hurt so much… Bryan/Luc mix, for dyenths – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and i’m twitching again, so i really do need to go do the stuffies thing. or the hot cocoa thing. the kid’s being cute…patient, but not letting me forget that she needs attention. but she’s also not running in fear and not asking me for what she needs i guess i gotta take any sign of progress as progress, huh? thanks for being you, beauty. i like you. jt (Nathan, and whoever else – we’re switching a lot today) message Well, to "unpack" what I meant – I guess it’s a bit like a joke – when you unpack it, it doesn’t quite mean the same thing and isn’t funny. But – in this case, it unpacks a little differently for everyone, I guess, and you just did your own unpacking. I have been doing a lot of reaching for my own center, lately – looking to center myself rather than look to others for a sense of identity. And also, for me, there is a center or source to be reached for beyond myself, which is part of reaching for the center within myself. That’s about as good a job as I can do, I think, at getting at what *I* was thinking when I wrote it. But the words were given to me to write – and the meaning – well – I

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Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the more the merrier. if we wanted this to be a private conversation that no one else could join in on, we’d take it to email. i apologize for not being able to sugar-coat my words the way i normally do so that they’re tailor-made with you in mind (i do this with everyone i write to, not just you). you probably won’t know the difference, since it’s only in my own mind that i need to do this. but i shut my emotions off a little while ago, and am feeling rather d**d inside. Jen is convinced that you’re going to react badly to …the abruptness with which i’m communicating. let me try again, from the start: please feel welcome to join in any thread i’m writing on, even if it’s a long exchange between me and one other person. i welcome your thoughts and observations just as much as anyone else’s. ….they’re teaching me to function like them even when i don’t care about anything. "cuz it’s always raining in my head…forget all the things i should have said…" the theory goes that if i write for long enough, something will hurt and i’ll cry. Jen is miserable at this point, because I’m botching this response to you so badly. I’m being narcissistic in my need to process my own thoughts and feelings as they come up, rather than focusing on what I’m theoretically engaged in doing: responding to you, regarding what you wrote.

I am not even going to attempt to respond to any of the above, because it just p*sses CS off so much when we act in the self-depricating way that we did….it’s just too complicated to explain the process and how when things like that are said, they are not intended to elicit any kind of response, that what is being said is just a given, a univesal truth…..whoever is talking thinks it is understood by all that we are nothing and unworthy…anyway, never mind, i don’t even want to get started.  Anyway, don’t worry, any of yous, about how you sounded or how it was taken.  All’s okay.  We just can’t get into things right now because Violet is having a crisis, (unrelated to anything here…all therapy related stuff..going in for an extra session today to get her some help dealing, if cs doesn’t butt in)   So, don’t feel miserable, jen.  The response was not "botched".  Narcissistic?  Well, we took your post and made it about us, didn’t we?  Anyway, not much below…just a little bit, cuz we need to take a nap before going to T.  Having a crisis is very tiring! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, I always feel so weird entering into a thread where two people are having a conversation. It feels like I am an intruder, and that the people having the conversation will roll their eyes in exasperation at the intrusion. With that said, please excuse the intrusion as I write below: dyenths said inside: "no roll eyes. no zasprashun". i’m sure she’d do exclamation points and head nods were she on first. spoiler updated to include graphic imagery, well splatted, of phys/emot p**n tough break, sounding like something you are… ;) like having a nickname that perfectly describes you… sheesh. hard life, beauts. ;) (said in a spirit of gentle teasing, not meant unkindly) spoilered for sp*r*tuality .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. my conception of sp*r*tuality fits with what u unpacked. i got to that step, but skipped right over it to the next one for me. i go by the theory that love is the unifying force in the universe, down to it being the thingy that holds atoms together, keeps electrons spinning in their orbits, etc… it’s the opposite of chaos, of entropy. i conceptualize love in much the same way that i do electricity, if that helps any. yes, yes!!….my thoughts are quite similar…. i liked it when you said this. i’m sorry i can’t be more eloquent than that. but anything i could come up with that would fit perfectly here would mean the same thing. "i’m glad we’re making sense to each other" "kewl" "really? oh wow, that’s awesome!" (can you get a sense for how rarely we let some parts talk here?) all of those phrases fit better here than what i said. but they all mean the same thing. why should i change my words just because i *can* phrase something better?

Funny, when I wrote that my thoughts are similar, I was so frustrated with myself for being unable to elaborate.  My communication skills really stink.  My receptive language skills are far more developed than my expressive language skills (as are most people’s I guess, but this gap seems very exaggerated).  I can read and understand difficult concepts, and often have wonderfully complicated thoughts, yet can not articulate them.  My T, who has known me a long time, says that it is a matter of anxiety.  That I am able to articulate, but fear of being judged or evaluated (or punished, ridiculed), increases the level of anxiety, then cs jumps in to interrupt or silence, short-circuiting the whole communication process.  So there I am left with a mind full of wonderful, complex thoughts, and am able only to utter "yes, my thoughts are similar".  ARGGGGGHH! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – so, by my reckoning, very literally G*d *IS* love. everything in the universe is … drenched in it, can’t escape from it, exists within a framework of love. making the mental effort to deny love puts one out of step with the universe. yes, again, my thoughts are similar….. BTW, have you read Bishop Sp*ng’s latest book? It is quite interesting, and refreshing. no, i have not. i would probably get triggered by it, unless "bishop" is the man’s first name, and not his title. my mthr left rlgs books littering the house in the hopes that i’d be bored, find the title interesting, and read it. i have issues reading rlgs books.

Actually, his first name is John, and I really doubt that you would find it triggering.  This is probably not like the books your mtr has given you (tho’ I could be wrong).  This guy in definitely not of the mainstream, and, in fact, has been labelled a heretic by many. I find his writing very refreshing (albeit sometimes kind of simplistic).  You probably won’t find his books in a rlgs bookstore, because he proposes looking at Gd in a way that many mainstream and definitely most fundamentalists would find threatening.  When I started reading his stuff, I got the same feeling that I had when I first came here…..wow. There are others….. I am not alone in these thoughts, ideas, experiences….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – fwiw, i have never processed my emotions on being given rlgs pr*yer books by my fthr for my birthday in March. Yet one more thing frozen on ice because… I’m sorry. I can’t go there. Bitterness threatens to break free. <We mustn’t have *that* now, *must* we?? *sneers* what’s getting to me now is that to deny, suppress, box up, ignore my anger, is putting me out of step with the universe. the little voice inside that i hear when i do reach for the core tells me to open the door to that anger. and i don’t want to. so i’m miserable. I should think this might sound familiar to you. CS is undoubtedly miserable for these very reasons I have stated. He is out of step with the universe. there’s a song out now, on the rock stations, that affects me if i sing it as written, but breaks down the barriers inside so i can cry if i change "boy" to "girl", so it works for me. "I am nothing more than a little girl inside, who cries out for attention, though i always try to hide…" It’s usually as i sing the word "girl" when i’m singing along that i feel the reaction inside. I didn’t even get as far as that today. Ah….epiphany……I have mentally referred to this song as "my dissociation song" since the first time I heard it last December. I used to listen to it over and over again in the car (can a CD wear out?), and had a really vivid inner world experience one day after therapy as this song played. Everyone was there inside at the same time. I wrote all about it to someone…. if I can find it, I’ll send it in email, if you are interested. Actually, I think it was shortly after cs and blue were talking, so perhaps it was another instance of you acting as a catalyst (heehee…sounds funny). Maybe you were the one I wrote about it to?? CS thinks the whole experience was as corny as all get-out, but i think it was very important. I can certainly understand why this song affects you so. I, too, have an aversion to "corny", (though "Korn-y" would be fine with me. *thinks about grinning*), but I also understand that corny is important to the girls. Anyway…..TIA for allowing me to interrupt your discussion….(Hi, Beauty…I have been very interested in things you have been writing as well, about looking to center yourself and not looking to others for sense of identity…..there are just so many really important and interesting discussions going on that I am very excited about yet too overwhelmed to jump in) Oh well……guess I’d best get back to studying. or sleeping. dove PS- Can’t find the post, but felt very sad for you when you were asked to sing that song. Music is so, so powerful. Even the most innocuous song

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hello, friends.  good to hear from you again. *would smile if sie were perky* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the more the merrier. if we wanted this to be a private conversation that no one else could join in on, we’d take it to email. i apologize for not being able to sugar-coat my words the way i normally do so that they’re tailor-made with you in mind (i do this with everyone i write to, not just you). you probably won’t know the difference, since it’s only in my own mind that i need to do this. but i shut my emotions off a little while ago, and am feeling rather d**d inside. Jen is convinced that you’re going to react badly to …the abruptness with which i’m communicating. let me try again, from the start: please feel welcome to join in any thread i’m writing on, even if it’s a long exchange between me and one other person. i welcome your thoughts and observations just as much as anyone else’s. ….they’re teaching me to function like them even when i don’t care about anything. "cuz it’s always raining in my head…forget all the things i should have said…" the theory goes that if i write for long enough, something will hurt and i’ll cry. Jen is miserable at this point, because I’m botching this response to you so badly. I’m being narcissistic in my need to process my own thoughts and feelings as they come up, rather than focusing on what I’m theoretically engaged in doing: responding to you, regarding what you wrote. I am not even going to attempt to respond to any of the above, because it just p*sses CS off so much when we act in the

self-depricating way that we did….

i understand.  my response was the same process. it’s just too complicated to explain the process and how when things like that are said, they are not intended to elicit any kind of response, that what is being said is just a given, a univesal truth…..

again, same process.  like, for a long time i had to put "…but that’s just me" at the end of anything I wrote, or "ok, i have no clue what i’m talking about.  just ignore me!"  or "you don’t have to read this if you don’t want to. i know it’s boring…" they’re *things*.  they’re not useful phrases.  they’re things i have to write to … they’re like movable walls that i can put up to hold pieces of anxiety at bay long enough to be able to write anything useful. i understand. whoever is talking thinks it is understood by all that we are nothing and unworthy…anyway, never mind, i don’t even want to get started.  Anyway, don’t worry, any of yous, about how you sounded or how it was taken.  All’s okay.

good. We just can’t get into things right now because Violet is having a crisis,

:( sorry to hear that, though hopefully it result/ed/s in useful work getting done.  will keep Violet in my thoughts. you (plural) are important to me. (unrelated to anything here…all therapy related stuff..going in for an extra session today to get her some help dealing, if cs doesn’t butt in)   So, don’t feel miserable, jen.  The response was not "botched".  Narcissistic? Well, we took your post and made it about us, didn’t we?

*considers a wry grin* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyway, not much below…just a little bit, cuz we need to take a nap before going to T. Having a crisis is very tiring! You know, I always feel so weird entering into a thread where two people are having a conversation. It feels like I am an intruder, and that the people having the conversation will roll their eyes in exasperation at the intrusion. With that said, please excuse the intrusion as I write below: dyenths said inside: "no roll eyes. no zasprashun". i’m sure she’d do exclamation points and head nods were she on first. spoiler updated to include graphic imagery, well splatted, of phys/emot p**n tough break, sounding like something you are… ;) like having a nickname that perfectly describes you… sheesh. hard life, beauts. ;) (said in a spirit of gentle teasing, not meant unkindly) spoilered for sp*r*tuality .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. my conception of sp*r*tuality fits with what u unpacked. i got to that step, but skipped right over it to the next one for me. i go by the theory that love is the unifying force in the universe, down to it being the thingy that holds atoms together, keeps electrons spinning in their orbits, etc… it’s the opposite of chaos, of entropy. i conceptualize love in much the same way that i do electricity, if that helps any. yes, yes!!….my thoughts are quite similar…. i liked it when you said this. i’m sorry i can’t be more eloquent than that. but anything i could come up with that would fit perfectly here would mean the same thing. "i’m glad we’re making sense to each other" "kewl" "really? oh wow, that’s awesome!" (can you get a sense for how rarely we let some parts talk here?) all of those phrases fit better here than what i said. but they all mean the same thing. why should i change my words just because i *can* phrase something better? Funny, when I wrote that my thoughts are similar, I was so  frustrated with myself for being unable to elaborate.

we are apparently in synch with each others’ mindsets. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My communication skills really stink.  My receptive language skills are far more developed than my expressive language skills (as are most people’s I guess, but this gap seems very exaggerated).  I can read and understand difficult concepts, and often have wonderfully complicated thoughts, yet can not articulate them.  My T, who has known me a long time, says that it is a matter of anxiety.  That I am able to articulate, but fear of being judged or evaluated (or punished, ridiculed), increases the level of anxiety, then cs jumps in to interrupt or silence, short-circuiting the whole communication process.  So there I am left with a mind full of wonderful, complex thoughts, and am able only to utter "yes, my thoughts are similar".  ARGGGGGHH!

I had great probs in thpy for many many years because of this.  I actually developed a dissociative process that resulted in Luc being able to talk no matter what’s going on inside.  There’s almost a timer going inside in social situations, telling me when a silence has gone on too long, etc.  When that timer approaches 0, the anxiety level increases.  when the anxiety reaches a certain point, the mouth opens, the mind feels rusty, but Luc begins to talk. If nothing else he explains what’s going on: "Sorry.  lost the ability to talk for a bit."  or says, word for word, what’s going on inside.  "The thoughts are: why would i want to blah blah, when blah.  Yet the response is: blahblah. So-and-so then says blahh." or whatever…  Used to have some amazing moments of derealization when I’d do that kind of thing in thpy.  Voice would rasp into sound, mind would go very far away… somebody’d be shouting "you can’t say that!!"  somebody else would reply "what does it matter?  who cares if someone finds out how useless and stupid we are?" and the ennui would get us feeling dreamy enough that i could keep talking.  very useful. <snip yes, again, my thoughts are similar….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTW, have you read Bishop Sp*ng’s latest book? It is quite interesting, and refreshing. no, i have not. i would probably get triggered by it, unless "bishop" is the man’s first name, and not his title. my mthr left rlgs books littering the house in the hopes that i’d be bored, find the title interesting, and read it. i have issues reading rlgs books. Actually, his first name is John, and I really doubt that you would find it triggering.  This is probably not like the books your mtr has given you (tho’ I could be wrong).  This guy in definitely not of the mainstream, and, in fact, has been labelled a heretic by many. I find his writing very refreshing (albeit sometimes kind of simplistic).  You probably won’t find his books in a rlgs bookstore, because he proposes looking at Gd in a way that many mainstream and definitely most fundamentalists would find threatening.  When I started reading his stuff, I got the same feeling that I had when I first came here…..wow. There are others….. I am not alone in these thoughts, ideas, experiences…..

it sounds very interesting.  if i weren’t triggered at the concept of reading a book by a preacher, i’d certainly read it.  as i said, however, i never processed the awesome triggering that was done on my brthday last march. <snip PS- Can’t find the post, but felt very sad for you when – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you were asked to sing that song. Music is so, so powerful. Even the most innocuous song can be paired with something so ugly, making the song so very horrific and painful. You should have had the opportunity to decline. Did you? Ended up so triggery and dissy that morn that I showed up literally 5 min b4 the svc started. They’d given the song to the other soprano soloist to sing. I stayed in the svc just long enough to sing the anthem with the choir, then left during a

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