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spoilered for y*lling at bf (not too bad)

Question:

PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK SOMETIMES!!!! im awful good at hating myself, faulting myself, and the like…. but, i have to really work to say something nice about myself.. and i have been trying to say something nice about myslef at least once each day. so, good job anna, ya told him good. (why, thank you!) anna

Good job Anna!!!!  Is there a pat on the back emoticon?  Does anybody know? Keep up the godd work!  Rof

Response:

. . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . i just yelled at my bf, and at first it felt great, but now i feel scared like always. it was partially about the stuff ive been reading, the new dissociation stuff. of course, he doesnt like it. he asked me if i was ok, and i said i was, but i was reading about amnesia, and it made me feel a little anxious. he said "maybe you shouldn’t read it then" a response that i *hate*, becuase i *want* to read it! im *tired* of secrets, so damn tired.  i want it ALL out in the open now. he has a tough time understanding how i could *want* all the upheaval this new learning brings to my life. but, how can i explain that it could never be as painful as keeping it always  inside?? then i went in to try and do some dishes. now, dishes just happens to be oneof my real problem areas! one of the things my d*d used to do was make me wash dishes.. and yell at me the while, about how st*pid, *gly, useless i was, etc etc. i remember hyperventilating to the point of passing out, and then being required to finish the dishes anyway…. i was tr*pped there, as long as there were dishes to do he could say anything he wanted to me and i couldnt leave…. so im not too keen on dishes these days. also, im really non-functional, so i stay in bed a lot of the time, and getting up and trying to do dishes is a *real* big deal for me, and my bf  knows it…. there are dirty dishes still in my *car* that i brought from my old apartment, when we moved here 6 months ago that i still so in accordance with my new life plan ive been working on, i went in and very lovingly and gently filled up the sink with warm, soothing soapy water and immersed my dishes in so that i could clean them for the benefit of my loved ones. this is how i am trying to think about it these days. and i felt so successful that i danced into the living room and said " look, look at the lovely sinkful of happy soothing water….. istn that great? arent you proud of me?" so he said, ‘dishes yah, so what’ and he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. he just wanted to piss me off like a childish little boy. (its not like *he* ever does any dishes) and i did get really _really_  p*ssed. so i yelled at him! in our 2 year relationship, whenever i said something he ‘didnt like’ (like mostly things inside my head that make him uncomfortable, duh)  he would start these fights to distract me, to intimidate me, or whatever i dont know.. but i just yelled right back this time… maybe i feel stronger becuase we have finally started couples counseling….. maybe i feel stronger becuase im finally almost completely believing in myself these days, that it *wasnt* my fault, that it wasnt deserved, that it was WRONG WRONG WRONG!! and i dont need to take shit from anybody…. and i told him that straight out… i told him that that is *exactly* why we  are in counseling, and that these feelings coming out of me are not gonna stop becuase they are inconvenient for him, and that i am gonna heal in my house whether he likes it or not, and that if he and this time, he shut up. i think maybe he really really is starting to believe me now. i dont need him for money, i dont need him for anything. this is my house, that i paid the entire deposit on, and i negotiated the lease; there is absolutely no good reason on this earth that i should put up with that kind of crap. that part feels REALLLLYY deliciously good. our first couples app with our new counselor is next friday. we had some initial apps with another man, but then he transferred us, so theres been kind of a break… the other man flat out told my bf that he would have to "do some work" about his intolerance of other peoples emotions… what bf calls ‘negative’ emotions.  and so im really looking forward to this counseling. anyway, it felt really good to really stand up for myself, i didnt let him turn it back on me, i didnt let him intimidate me with loud yelling, i didnt let him make  insulting comments on the state of my mental health, (which is reallly below the belt as far as im concerned)… and i stood up for my own safety in my house…. yay!!!! good for me. one of the other things im working very hard on, and bf knows it and this is why im extra mad, is PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK SOMETIMES!!!! im awful good at hating myself, faulting myself, and the like…. but, i have to really work to say something nice about myself.. and i have been trying to say something nice about myslef at least once each day. so, good job anna, ya told him good. (why, thank you!) anna — "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"

Response:

Good job Anna!!!!  Is there a pat on the back emoticon?  Does anybody know?

i dont know, but im for inventing one!!!! it would get some use i think. could have another creativity contest to invent the best one. Keep up the godd work!  Rof

— "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"

Response:

snippage to get to the dishes :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . then i went in to try and do some dishes. now, dishes just happens to be oneof my real problem areas! one of the things my d*d used to do was make me wash dishes.. and yell at me the while, about how st*pid, *gly, useless i was, etc etc. i remember hyperventilating to the point of passing out, and then being required to finish the dishes anyway…. i was tr*pped there, as long as there were dishes to do he could say anything he wanted to me and i couldnt leave…. so im not too keen on dishes these days. also, im really non-functional, so i stay in bed a lot of the time, and getting up and trying to do dishes is a *real* big deal for me, and my bf  knows it…. there are dirty dishes still in my *car* that i brought from my old apartment, when we moved here 6 months ago that i still so in accordance with my new life plan ive been working on, i went in and very lovingly and gently filled up the sink with warm, soothing soapy water and immersed my dishes in so that i could clean them for the benefit of my loved ones. this is how i am trying to think about it these days. and i felt so successful that i danced into the living room and said " look, look at the lovely sinkful of happy soothing water….. istn that great? arent you proud of me?" so he said, ‘dishes yah, so what’ and he knew EXACTLY what he was doing. he just wanted to piss me off like a childish little boy. (its not like *he* ever does any dishes)

Dishes are a big thing for me as well. I had the same sort of upbringing as you in this respect. I used to wash the dishes and then be told ‘they aren’t clean’ and I’d have to start all over again with no clue as to what was wrong, how to fix it, etc. People (ie parental units) used to tell me I was being lazy, stupid, whatever while I was washing dishes. I had to do all the dishes for the entire family (of seven) every day regardless of if I was ill or busy or whatever as well as other chores because I was the ‘girl’ (I was told that specifically) and on and on and on… :( My point, doing dishes sucks and is a big problem for me. So, here is how I tried to solve the problem. One, in _my_ house I do the dishes when _I_ want to. _NEVER_ when someone expects me to or tells me to (I have had a family member or two make that sort of comment and I get really nasty to them). Two, dishes are washed the way _I_ want them to be by me. I don’t care how someone else washes dishes but if I want to wash them in boiling water and bleach that is my problem. If I want to wash them under running water and a rag I do it. If someone else doesn’t approve they wash their own dishes. Period. Three, no one EVER tells me to do their dishes. I used to live in a house with three other people. If I was washing my dishes and there were other dishes there I washed them sometimes to be helpful. If a person said ‘while you are washing yours wash mine’ I said ‘no’. Four, I made it clear from the start with my SO that dishes were a problem for me. Either we worked it out or I did mine and he did his and if necessary I’d eat separate from him. I tried to be more tactful than that, but that was the message I gave. :) I expect him to do the dishes at times. I will tell him point blank ‘It’s your turn to do the dishes’ Needless to say, if he were to argue with me about this I would just stop doing the dishes altogether and eat out on my own until he realized I wasn’t his servant. Living with someone who uses the dishes and doesn’t clean them roughly half the time would be unacceptable to me. It is NOT my job to wash dishes for other people. Because of all of these rules about dishes I no longer have a problem getting dishes done. I wash them either every day or every other day. They are clean and put away and all that good stuff. My SO washes dishes about as often as I do. We cooperate and work together on this sort of thing. Had he ever made it into a problem I would have probably pointed out to him that I am not his servant or his slave and if he expects maid service he had better hire a maid. I don’t tolerate gender roles in stuff like house keeping AT ALL. If he gets his clothes dirty he had better be prepared to do laundry if it needs to be done (and he does:). If my oil needs changing in my car I had better be prepared to change it (and I do:). OTOH, if we want to cooperate and divide up tasks so that they all get done in a timely fashion we talk about it and divide it up and things get done. This arrangement has worked well for us since 1983. For example, I don’t think he has cleaned a bathroom more than twice/three times since I met him. I don’t think I have dusted/vacuumed more than twice/three times. It just worked out that I’m better at one and he’s better at the other. I pretty much always do the tune ups on the cars and he pretty much always snow blowers the driveway. (you should see our driveway! The poor guy!) Because of this something as problematic as washing the dishes isn’t a problem :) Rainbow Colors (Jill) —      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snippage to get to the dishes :) . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . .

~~~*another* snip of mindblowing dish story~~~ Living with someone who uses the dishes and doesn’t clean them roughly half the time would be unacceptable to me. It is NOT my job to wash dishes for other people.

it is very funny. you sound like me. i am very quick to tell people that my mama didnt raise no slave girl…. (of course, now i find out she did!!! arrghhh!!!!! ) but the point is, i *aint* no slave girl. i do not like the concept of ownership between humans. Because of all of these rules about dishes I no longer have a problem getting dishes done. I wash them either every day or every other day. They are clean and put away and all that good stuff. My SO washes dishes about as often as I do. We cooperate and work together on this sort of thing. Had he ever made it into a problem I would have probably pointed out to him that I am not his servant or his slave and if he expects maid service he had better hire a maid. I don’t tolerate gender roles in stuff like house keeping AT ALL.

well, me neither. i never had this problem with my other boyfriends. we always divided stuff without even discussing it. it just worked out. i think that on a psychic level, this is g*d’s way of telling me to be ready to stand up for myself. If he gets his clothes dirty he had better be prepared to do laundry if it needs to be done (and he does:).

i told jamie once that any grown man afraid to do laundry is advertising himself as a wimp If my oil needs changing in my car I had better be prepared to change it (and I do:).

me too. i HATE double standards. OTOH, if we want to cooperate and divide up tasks so that they all get done in a timely fashion we talk about it and divide it up and things get done. This arrangement has worked well for us since 1983. For example, I don’t think he has cleaned a bathroom more than twice/three times since I met him. I don’t think I have dusted/vacuumed more than twice/three times. It just worked out that I’m better at one and he’s better at the other. I pretty much always do the tune ups on the cars and he pretty much always snow blowers the driveway. (you should see our driveway! The poor guy!) Because of this something as problematic as washing the dishes isn’t a problem :)

well you have been very lucky that your s.o. will accept that.. its been a real journey with this boyfriend.. when i met him 2 yrs ago he had moved back in with his mom, to finish school low rent… so he was SPOILED….. his mom is ms. ultra caretaker/nurturer.. she did all his laundry, all the cooking, all the cleaning, and she was kind of from the old school where the man is the king, the woman was to glorify him and a whole lotta other KRAPP. so, he has come a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way in the last 2 years. but, he still has further to go i fear. its also compounded by the fact that im physically unable to even get out of bed much of the time… so a lot of stuff i just *cant* do, even if i want to, and he just has to pitch in.  even if i actually BELIEVED that it was somehow my responsibility,  pandering to some miserable candy-ass man’s over-fragile ego in that ridiculous way, i still dont have the energy to do it!! but, since even the very thought is completely laughable to me, we wont be trying it anytime soon. so, now he cooks almost half the time, and will go shopping for me, and do one or two dishes SOMETIMES. he will do ‘chores’ if i ask him, but very whining and reluctant. he still doesnt get the idea of ‘partnership’. he is still just ‘helping me’. so this has been the journey of this relationship.. and what has been happening is that, every time i try to bring it up just to discuss, (or anything else he doesnt wanna hear, for that matter) he totally freaks out, starts this mega screaming fight, and turns it all on me saying i started the fight (by trying to discuss something he didnt want to hear i guess) …. very bad. that is why i finally told him that if we didnt get counseling we must break up. i dont have time for that crap. now here is an interesting twist: my boyfriends major problems as i see it are denial of reality. he will do *anything* to not discuss something that has to do with emotions or feelings, he thinks its better to just hide it away, that if you ignore things they will go away. (can you imagine how i like *that* especially these days) well i am fairly good friends with his mother.. and she is in her fifties… and i remember just last year her *first* remembering having been repeatedly m*lested by *her* uncle as a child!!!! it had been totally blocked before that. since then there has been no other mention of it. she has gotten no counseling, it was not discussed within the family (i said to jamie that he hadnt even discussed it with her.. his answer.. "whats to discuss?") and i have become very aware that the silence disease has hit them too. his mother is the ’stoic’ type… she will never admit that ANYTHING is ever wrong. and so, neither will jamie. in fact, i have come to believe that she herself could be in a permanent dissociated state …. she zips around at 5 million mph, she NEVER sits still. she worries constantly. she is a housecleaner, and she lives to be on her hands and knees, 14 hours a day…. she constantly frets about her failure to ‘make others happy’. she is a total co-dependent rescuer, she will do ANYTHING to ‘make things better’ for anyone. personally it disgusts me, but its far far worse that i have to deal with its aftereffects in my bf. ANYWAY, the final result is i finally decided within myself that i no longer want to be in this relationship unless we can discuss things openly. we had a good start, but then we had to get transferred to another t.. so things kind of ground to a halt again.. but the one thing i have to keep stressing and remembering is that, i wont accept this anymore, he must deal with it or leave the relationship.  and, hes told me he refuses to move, hes gonna make me and my daughter move out!!!!! (sumbitch) that is just laughable. but what it means is that, to kick him out, i’ll have to mediate it with counseling. in other words, if in this counseling we decide we dont wanna be togehter, then im gonna have to get a mediator to convince him that *hes* the one whos gonna have to go. bottom line is, i paid the whole $1200 deposit, and we have this place becuase of MY hud grant. so, he could NEVER afford this place on his own. he barely makes $200 a month, hes totally lazy, he’ll never get a job, he lives off my welfare money!!! so, him coming up with $1200 plus almost $700 a month just for rent.. i dont see it happening. whenever we have gone to counseling, hes responded really well, so i am not hopeless. its just that, if we dont get it soon, i will possibly murder him becasue hes just acting like such an ass. i dont even thihk he has any idea. hes really an excellent bf when he forgets his ‘ass’ disguise. when he is not self-conscious, he is caring and gentle, and blind to gender roles. but, his conditioning is deep. i have promised myself that i will *not* continue in this relationship without the benefit of counseling. if this counseling does not help, it will become the mediation for our split. this i swear. i guess we’ll see what happens. anyway, i agree with your rules, i follow them as well. i do NOTHING unless i myslef want to. its just not my job. i refuse to take it on. how strange that the dish thing happened to you too. will wonders never cease..   take care anna Rainbow Colors (Jill) —      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

– "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . I’m always amused when someone says I’m ‘lucky’ about this stuff. No, I wouldn’t be with my SO if he weren’t this kind of person. It’s more than just dishes, it’s a whole mind set. I couldn’t live with someone who didn’t think this way. It’s not luck, it’s common sense :)

its funny but as soon as i sent that post i had that thought. __sigh__ :}}}} and of course you are totally right.. :}} For example, reading about how your SO is I know I would never had developed a committed relationship with him. He is just not my ‘type’ in this regard.

well unfortunately, he *is* my type in all these *other* ways…. thats the only reason ive stuck with it…. and that is why i went for the counseling instead of just breaking up straight out; ive come **that close** to breaking up so many times.. and each time i ask my insides what to do and they say.. just stick it out.. the good is more than the bad…  and i have trusted that voice, cause its my most inner one, and does not steer me wrong. however, this ‘inner voice’ is now *totally* irrevocably convinced that its *completely* unhealthy for me to stay in this relationship without significant ‘coaching’ for both of us from a trained professional. :}}}   also, if this counseling reveals that we really should not be together, then thats whats gonna happen. no illusions there. i’m a lover, not a martyr :}}}}  i do not intend to leave this counseling until one or the other happens. i have promised myself. that is what i told him (for the umpteenth time) the other day when i yelled at him, and that was why it felt so good when he shut up and didnt pursue it. i think it is a karmic thing…. i think it is a lesson for me to learn to stand up for myself, to learn that i *can* stand up for myself to get what i want or need….. i also think its a karmic lesson for him, becuase even though he is so crusty sometimes on the outside, on the inside i know hes a big softie, and i know that he is very emotional, and very sensitive, and very empathetic, only its been beaten out of him like certain things were beaten out of me. maybe we can get to our inner selves together you know. whenever we do get even the tiniest bit of counseling, things are much better immediately, so im far from hopeless. division of labor, and his discomfort with strong emotions, is the ONLY thing we ever fight about. other than that, we have tons of fun, lots of common interest, real respect for each other, and a lot of other good stuff…. so.. we’ll just have to see. i am six-a-one, half-dozen the other, as someone used to say. that means i am ready whichever way it goes. that is why i finally told him that if we didnt get counseling we must break up. i dont have time for that crap. Yep, that’s how I would have handled it too!

its good to be the queen :}}}}}}} Rainbow Colors (Jill) —      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

– "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"

Response:

Sorry for the typo in the last line of my reply to this thread.  i was horrified to see it when it showed up on the NG.  ):  of course i meant keep up the GOOD work!  As for the pat on the back emoticon-i’ll have to think about it but prolly someone with more artistic or tech weenie skills will have to invent it!   Rof

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snippage to get to the dishes :) . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . OTOH, if we want to cooperate and divide up tasks so that they all get done in a timely fashion we talk about it and divide it up and things get done. This arrangement has worked well for us since 1983. For example, I don’t think he has cleaned a bathroom more than twice/three times since I met him. I don’t think I have dusted/vacuumed more than twice/three times. It just worked out that I’m better at one and he’s better at the other. I pretty much always do the tune ups on the cars and he pretty much always snow blowers the driveway. (you should see our driveway! The poor guy!) Because of this something as problematic as washing the dishes isn’t a problem :) well you have been very lucky that your s.o. will accept that.. its been a real journey with this boyfriend..

I’m always amused when someone says I’m ‘lucky’ about this stuff. No, I wouldn’t be with my SO if he weren’t this kind of person. It’s more than just dishes, it’s a whole mind set. I couldn’t live with someone who didn’t think this way. It’s not luck, it’s common sense :) For example, reading about how your SO is I know I would never had developed a committed relationship with him. He is just not my ‘type’ in this regard. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -when i met him 2 yrs ago he had moved back in with his mom, to finish school low rent… so he was SPOILED….. his mom is ms. ultra caretaker/nurturer.. she did all his laundry, all the cooking, all the cleaning, and she was kind of from the old school where the man is the king, the woman was to glorify him and a whole lotta other KRAPP. so, he has come a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way in the last 2 years. but, he still has further to go i fear. its also compounded by the fact that im physically unable to even get out of bed much of the time… so a lot of stuff i just *cant* do, even if i want to, and he just has to pitch in.  even if i actually BELIEVED that it was somehow my responsibility,  pandering to some miserable candy-ass man’s over-fragile ego in that ridiculous way, i still dont have the energy to do it!! but, since even the very thought is completely laughable to me, we wont be trying it anytime soon.

Yeah, again, for me this would have all been spelled out very clearly from day one (as it was with my SO and I) and if he had any trouble with it I would have never continued the relationship to the extent I did. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -so, now he cooks almost half the time, and will go shopping for me, and do one or two dishes SOMETIMES. he will do ‘chores’ if i ask him, but very whining and reluctant. he still doesnt get the idea of ‘partnership’. he is still just ‘helping me’. so this has been the journey of this relationship.. and what has been happening is that, every time i try to bring it up just to discuss, (or anything else he doesnt wanna hear, for that matter) he totally freaks out, starts this mega screaming fight, and turns it all on me saying i started the fight (by trying to discuss something he didnt want to hear i guess) …. very bad. that is why i finally told him that if we didnt get counseling we must break up. i dont have time for that crap.

Yep, that’s how I would have handled it too! Rainbow Colors (Jill) —      The colors blend, the edges soften. Swirling and mixing                    we are becoming white light.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . .. . . . . . . (…) anyway, it felt really good to really stand up for myself, i didnt let him turn it back on me, i didnt let him intimidate me with loud yelling, i didnt let him make  insulting comments on the state of my mental health, (which is reallly below the belt as far as im concerned)… and i stood up for my own safety in my house…. yay!!!! good for me. one of the other things im working very hard on, and bf knows it and this is why im extra mad, is PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK SOMETIMES!!!! im awful good at hating myself, faulting myself, and the like…. but, i have to really work to say something nice about myself.. and i have been trying to say something nice about myslef at least once each day. so, good job anna, ya told him good. (why, thank you!) anna

Yeah!!!!  YOU GO GIRL!!!! tril – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"

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