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Using AFTRA for SAG?

Question:

Any actor can be an extra, but not all extras can be actors.

Very well put, Wil.  You said it better than me. Ed Hooks

Response:

Well said!  Here, here!  (chortle, chortle)  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any bunch of people off of Main Street can work as actors. Typo.  The sentence should be "any bunch of people off of Main Street can work as EXTRAS." suggesting that it is not an honorable way to spend one’s time.  Nothing wrong with it per se.  But it is offensive to actual actors — those who study the art —  when we start playing semantics with the differences between extra-work and acting.   To be sure, there are a hell of a lot of people working as actors, being paid good money,  whom I feel are not actors in the artistic and purist sense of the word.  Television is particularly full of such folk.  Watch almost any sit com.  They are personalities who talk, not actors who interpret.  But this subject matter for another thread.  When it comes to extras, they are always background, by definition.  Nice people, honorably employed.  But it ain’t acting. Ed Hooks

Response:

Background actors are recognized by filmakers/directors as being an integral part of a film and are actors. Just because they don’t speak does not mean they are not acting.

Oh, get a life.  Acting is an interpretative art.  Extra work is an activity.  Extras provide the background against which principal players act.  If it pleases you to contend that the extras are acting their hearts out, then go for it.  But they are NOT actors, nor are they hired as actors.  Any bunch of people off of Main Street can work as actors. It requires no skills whatever except the ability to move when someone yells, "Background! Action!" Ed Hooks

Response:

Any bunch of people off of Main Street can work as actors.

Typo.  The sentence should be "any bunch of people off of Main Street can work as EXTRAS." suggesting that it is not an honorable way to spend one’s time.  Nothing wrong with it per se.  But it is offensive to actual actors — those who study the art —  when we start playing semantics with the differences between extra-work and acting.   To be sure, there are a hell of a lot of people working as actors, being paid good money,  whom I feel are not actors in the artistic and purist sense of the word.  Television is particularly full of such folk.  Watch almost any sit com.  They are personalities who talk, not actors who interpret.  But this subject matter for another thread.  When it comes to extras, they are always background, by definition.  Nice people, honorably employed.  But it ain’t acting. Ed Hooks

Response:

Background actors are recognized by filmakers/directors as being an integral part of a film and are actors. Just because they don’t speak does not mean they are not acting. Try and do a film without background actors reacting to events around them. There are not many.

I am a filmmaker, and I have done extra parts… But I would never consider myself an actor. I do agree that extras are integral to the film. But think of it this way, you can put anyone in the background and call them an extra, but try and take an extra and put them in a starring role or a bit part… It takes an actor to act. Anyone can be an extra… It takes no training to walk across a room or down a street and talk or whatever… I’m not trying to put down any actors who work as extras, it’s actually a great gig… But I wouldn’t call it acting. Any actor can be an extra, but not all extras can be actors. Wil… http://www.enteract.com/~wmaxwell/info/ If you’re an actor/actress in the Chicagoland / Illinois area, check out http://www.enteract.com/~wmaxwell/chi-casting/ for information on getting a free webpage…

Response:

membership which begins with extra work.  In San Francisco, I gather this is very favorite procedure these days, and so SAG membership has become overflowing with folks who have never actually acted at all.

You really deserve a flame here. But I won’t. Background actors are recognized by filmakers/directors as being an integral part of a film and are actors. Just because they don’t speak does not mean they are not acting. Try and do a film without background actors reacting to events around them. There are not many. I think a problem here is between the old school and new school of actors. I probably will never ever perform in a play (sacrilige ;) . And maybe those that have payed their dues through theatre are not aware that all some want to do is act in film. All I know is as a background actor I am in front of the camera. I am working are you? The people who make the casting choices see me. I learn from observing the directors, crew, and prinicipals and when it’s time to be recognized I will be prepared with the knowledge I have learned to deliver a technique that is specific to the camera. Just so you know I have been a musician since 1963 and have chosen now, to express my creativity through movies and television. Michael I’m only happy when the lights are on. I’m only happy when the sound is up. I’m only happy when the camera rolls. I’m only happy when it rolls. (sung to I’m only happy when it rains)

Response:

Ed and I occasionally conflict on some issues, but in this instance…. the guy has some insight.  Re-read his previous paragraph.           When the merger between SAG and AFTRA occurs (and it will…. phew!!!! eventually) the folks who will do well are those who EARNED the SAG or AFTRA card, by scoring a principal speaking role (or two…. if you know how Taft-Hartley works.)           All of those windows-of-opporturnity…. those back-door entries to SAG (the voucher system for extras; or buying an AFTRA card) will soon…. be worthless.  The negotiating teams will eventually work out a tiered system of full-eligibility, versus conditional membership.           And that turns the circle back to the original premise…. like John Houseman used to say about status and recognition, "Earn it!"   Break a leg, Bill — THE ACTING STUDIO http://gvtg.com/theactingstudio

Response:

Question. If someone was a photodouble or body double or standin – would that count as "special ability"?

They have to use a SAG member to do any of the above mentioned. BUT… they will use a non-SAG if the person fits the part and SHOULD give them the waiver. The only problem is they somehow ALWAYS never mention the waiver part to the person. After the person does the stand-in, photo double…etc., that person should look for the SAG rep on the set, and tell them what they have done. The rep will make sure that they get their waiver. But yes they are entitled to the  waiver… Sorry for what sounded like a lot of animosity in my last reply Adam. Just trying to help those who didn’t know.   :) Rick Congratulations on your recient SAG membership…. (March ‘97.)

Response:

ED HOOKS…. Please tell this person about the waiver situation, and not being able to join SAG for just being a general extra for 3 days.. AND also about the AFTRA / PRINCIPAL thru AFTRA / 1 year to join SAG thing and NOT just being able to join SAG just for being in AFTRA for 1 year.

I’m not as familiar with the intracies of the pathway to SAG membership which begins with extra work.  In San Francisco, I gather this is very favorite procedure these days, and so SAG membership has become overflowing with folks who have never actually acted at all.   My understanding is that if you work as a SAG-approved extra on a movie or tv show, you get credit toward joining SAG.  If you work on two or three such projects, you can pay your money and join.  But I do not know how it works beyond that.  I can check with the union if you want me to. As for the AFTRA-to-SAG route, that’s easy.  If you join AFTRA, you can join SAG a year later if you have had at least one AFTRA job in the interim. The best way to get into SAG is to get cast as a principal.  Commercials are the most likely vehicle. Wish I could be more helpful. Ed Hooks

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is another way as well – If you join AFTRA (approx $800 and change) and stay in good standing for one year – i.e. pay your bi-annual dues – you can join if you do three days as a SAG extra. -APS Nope…. Get a principal role in an AFTRA production and join SAG 1 year from the date of that pricipal role… OR Get 3 SAG waivers from doing a "special ability" thru extra work.. NOT just being your basic "extra"…. Sorry for the bad news… At first I thought that you were right – but in looking in my book for documents – I have in front of me the SAG New Membership Information sheet – that I was given by SAG. and I quote section B: Extra Players Employment Performers may join SAG upon proof of employment as a SAG coverered extra player at full SAG rates and conditions for a MINIMUM of three work days

So you just proved my point.. You WILL NOT get "full SAG rates" if you are just a general extra. You will get up to $98 as a general for the day. To get the full SAG rate of $99,  YOU MUST prove a special ability on the set, if AND ONLY if there are less than 100 SAG members present that cannot, get upgraded to special ability on the set, (for possiblity shooting a gun containing blanks), or actually be hired at the time of casting for $99 and a SAG waiver, (possibly for getting a re-shoot date because they actually need YOU because you were specifically seen in a certain scene, and they need to re-shoot that scene for continuity). TRUST ME… I’m right. You WILL NOT be eligiblle for SAG just by being a general extra for 3 days….   No 3 waivers, no joining SAG… Call them… You’ll see… The key words here are 3 SAG WAIVERS… ED HOOKS…. Please tell this person about the waiver situation, and not being able to join SAG for just being a general extra for 3 days.. AND also about the AFTRA / PRINCIPAL thru AFTRA / 1 year to join SAG thing and NOT just being able to join SAG just for being in AFTRA for 1 year. This guy is killing me!! Please!!! BTW this next paragraph, does mean waiver…. As a "non union" player you won’t get to sign the SAG EXTRA PLAYERS AGREEMENT… You’ll sign a NON-UNION AGREEMENT. subsequest to March 25, 1990.  Employment must be by a compnay signed to a SAG Extra Players Agreement, and in a SAG film, videotape, televison program or commercial.  Proof of such employment must be in the form of a signed employment voucer (or time card) plus a payroll check or check stub.

Rick SAG / AFTRA Producer.. (did I mention that last time…?    :)

Response:

Rick, Thanks for your reply.  Sorry If I seemed to annoy you – I, like Ed, try to give valid info – as yourself versus all the BS that is passed around… So as far as your last statement… goes… So you just proved my point.. You WILL NOT get "full SAG rates" if you are just a general extra. You will get up to $98 as a general for the day.

TRUE.  No arguement. To get the full SAG rate of $99,  YOU MUST prove a special ability on the set, if AND ONLY if there are less than 100 SAG members present that cannot, get upgraded to special ability on the set, (for possiblity shooting a gun containing blanks), or actually be hired at the time of casting for $99 and a SAG waiver, (possibly for getting a re-shoot date because they actually need YOU because you were specifically seen in a certain scene, and they need to re-shoot that scene for continuity).

Question. If someone was a photodouble or body double or standin – would that count as "special ability"? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – TRUST ME… I’m right. You WILL NOT be eligiblle for SAG just by being a general extra for 3 days….   No 3 waivers, no joining SAG… Call them… You’ll see… The key words here are 3 SAG WAIVERS… ED HOOKS…. Please tell this person about the waiver situation, and not being able to join SAG for just being a general extra for 3 days.. AND also about the AFTRA / PRINCIPAL thru AFTRA / 1 year to join SAG thing and NOT just being able to join SAG just for being in AFTRA for 1 year. This guy is killing me!! Please!!!

Don’t go asking Ed to tell me – you and I can talk to each other. I am mearly out for truthfull information.  I wasn’t and am not trying to discredit you at all, rather just the opposite, give you credit for the information that you provide. Rick SAG / AFTRA Producer.. (did I mention that last time…?    :)

-Adam  AFTRA / SAG as of March 10, 1998

Response:

There is another way as well – If you join AFTRA (approx $800 and change) and stay in good standing for one year – i.e. pay your bi-annual dues – you can join if you do three days as a SAG extra. -APS

Nope…. Get a principal role in an AFTRA production and join SAG 1 year from the date of that pricipal role… OR Get 3 SAG waivers from doing a "special ability" thru extra work.. NOT just being your basic "extra"…. Sorry for the bad news…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is another way as well – If you join AFTRA (approx $800 and change) and stay in good standing for one year – i.e. pay your bi-annual dues – you can join if you do three days as a SAG extra. -APS Nope…. Get a principal role in an AFTRA production and join SAG 1 year from the date of that pricipal role… OR Get 3 SAG waivers from doing a "special ability" thru extra work.. NOT just being your basic "extra"…. Sorry for the bad news…

At first I thought that you were right – but in looking in my book for documents – I have in front of me the SAG New Membership Information sheet – that I was given by SAG. and I quote section B: Extra Players Employment Performers may join SAG upon proof of employment as a SAG coverered extra player at full SAG rates and conditions for a MINIMUM of three work days subsequest to March 25, 1990.  Employment must be by a compnay signed to a SAG Extra Players Agreement, and in a SAG film, videotape, televison program or commercial.  Proof of such employment must be in the form of a signed employment voucer (or time card) plus a payroll check or check stub.

Response:

I have a question, I noticed that entrance into SAG can be achieved by having a reciprocal agreement between the other two unions of having one year of paid dues. I noticed that AFTRA (unless I missed something) has no pre-req’s to join. I.e. you can just elect to join. If this is the case, if someone were to join AFTRA for a year, they could then just join SAG? Is this right? Seems weird to me. Thanks! — Marty ICQ: 2981355

Response:

I have a question, I noticed that entrance into SAG can be achieved by having a reciprocal agreement between the other two unions of having one year of paid dues. I noticed that AFTRA (unless I missed something) has no pre-req’s to join. I.e. you can just elect to join. If this is the case, if someone were to join AFTRA for a year, they could then just join SAG? Is this right? Seems weird to me. Thanks!

Nope… Nat a chance.. That ALMOST right. Getting into AFTRA just by paying for it ir right. But to get into SAG by reciprocal agreement from AFTRA goes like this. You must have a pirncipal role or U-5 in AFTRA first. You can then join SAG 1 year from the DATE OF THAT ROLE. Not just for pating dues for a year. You could be in AFTRA for 5 years and at beginning of the 6th year, get the principal of U-5 in a AFTRA production, and STILL have to wait out the year from the date of that role to join SAG. There is talk about a SAG/AFTRA merge. (Which has been going on forever). But they’re still stuck on benifits and pentions. Don’t look so good at the moment.

Response:

You have to WORK under Aftra’s jurisdiction in order to join Sag. One principal day rate. E

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question, I noticed that entrance into SAG can be achieved by having a reciprocal agreement between the other two unions of having one year of paid dues. I noticed that AFTRA (unless I missed something) has no pre-req’s to join. I.e. you can just elect to join. If this is the case, if someone were to join AFTRA for a year, they could then just join SAG? Is this right? Seems weird to me. Thanks! Nope… Nat a chance.. That ALMOST right. Getting into AFTRA just by paying for it ir right. But to get into SAG by reciprocal agreement from AFTRA goes like this. You must have a pirncipal role or U-5 in AFTRA first. You can then join SAG 1 year from the DATE OF THAT ROLE. Not just for pating dues for a year. You could be in AFTRA for 5 years and at beginning of the 6th year, get the principal of U-5 in a AFTRA production, and STILL have to wait out the year from the date of that role to join SAG. There is talk about a SAG/AFTRA merge. (Which has been going on forever). But they’re still stuck on benifits and pentions. Don’t look so good at the moment.

        GOOD. UNLESS YOU DON’T MIND PAYNG HIGHEST DUES POSSIBLE.                                TGK L.A.

Response:

You must have a pirncipal role or U-5 in AFTRA first. You can then join SAG 1 year from the DATE OF THAT ROLE…

Right.  It used to be that you could join AFTRA and then, one year later, join SAG whether you had worked under AFTRA or not.  But they tightened things up because too many people were joining that way. Oddly, now that they tightened up the AFTRA avenue, SAG has made it possible for people to become SAG members by doing extra work!!  AFTRA made more sense.  Extras aren’t even actors. Ed Hooks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question, I noticed that entrance into SAG can be achieved by having a reciprocal agreement between the other two unions of having one year of paid dues. I noticed that AFTRA (unless I missed something) has no pre-req’s to join. I.e. you can just elect to join. If this is the case, if someone were to join AFTRA for a year, they could then just join SAG? Is this right? Seems weird to me. Thanks! Nope… Nat a chance.. That ALMOST right. Getting into AFTRA just by paying for it ir right. But to get into SAG by reciprocal agreement from AFTRA goes like this. You must have a pirncipal role or U-5 in AFTRA first. You can then join SAG 1 year from the DATE OF THAT ROLE. Not just for pating dues for a year. You could be in AFTRA for 5 years and at beginning of the 6th year, get the principal of U-5 in a AFTRA production, and STILL have to wait out the year from the date of that role to join SAG. There is talk about a SAG/AFTRA merge. (Which has been going on forever). But they’re still stuck on benifits and pentions. Don’t look so good at the moment.         GOOD. UNLESS YOU DON’T MIND PAYNG HIGHEST DUES POSSIBLE.                                TGK L.A.

There is another way as well – If you join AFTRA (approx $800 and change) and stay in good standing for one year – i.e. pay your bi-annual dues – you can join if you do three days as a SAG extra. -APS

Response:

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