Act Acting » Acting School » Well, then. (Offensively long and boring)

Well, then. (Offensively long and boring)

Question:

yes. and what i also notice is that people who lie about other people – or at least people who indulge in telling half of a story and offering only one view – is that they are most often people who never knew everything about the situation in the first place, and who generally are not terribly compassionate — except possibly towards the people they like. and i’m not seeing how that’s any better than lying, really.

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large snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It bothers me more when people lie about other people, what other purpose could there be for that other than to hurt someone or instigate something? If someone lies about themself, I figure they must really hate who they are, and they have a lot of problems they need to work on, and in the end it hurts them more than it hurts me because they are really lying to themself. I don’t take it personally, because it isn’t about me. I just won’t trust much of what they tell me. When someone lies about someone else, well, that is an attack, as far as I am concerned, and that is a person I will forever be wary of.

Response:

following: You know, I’m embarrassed to admit that I was buying into a lot of this until I read your posts to/about Dragon, then I sorta lost it all.

Peek-a-boo! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shar

Response:

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes Oh yeah – I forgot that one …. more below…… : : : I don’t need to read any more. Yes, indeedy, you *should be a writer! : What an imagination! : : We each, I think, deal with it in our own unique manner – the aftermath : is : where we are, I call it that. You do, I do – each one of us in a : different way. : : someone (not in this group and years ago) posted one time to talk about a : significant step they’d taken in their therapy. today, this person told : the : group, i admitted to my therapist that my entire childhood sexual abuse : story was a fabrication. s/he (gender unimportant) then proceded to ask : the : group’s indulgence for putting this story out for the past umpteen months, : years, whatever it was. : : Over the years I’ve seen that played out here in various ways also. Most of : the time it doesn’t phase me and after a time of just sitting and observing : and gaging my own feelings, I’m pretty much ok with it. Only one case : wherein I was involved in what became a very intertwined deceptive pattern : did I get pissed of – still am to some degree about that one. But most : times – I see it as part of the process. We go through so many stages in : the aftermath – who am I to judge how anyone navigates their own personal : journey? I’m still *extremely pissed about *that one. Not just because he lied through his teeth for *decades, but while doing so, he had the nerve to give others a "talking to" about *their recovery. He ruined for me EVER fully believing anything anyone says. I’ve always felt "why lie ONLINE?" I mean, how fucking stupid. roup reaction ran a spectrum between feelings of betrayal/deception and : praise/congratulation for attaining this significant milestone. me, i : just : thought hmm, there are several way to go with this one… and i don’t : think : i ever actually picked one. grist to the mill, million stories in the : naked : city, etc. i wasn’t convinced the person’s "admission" was genuine, for : one : thing, and some others expressed that view. : : There always is that possibility isn’t there – if there is an original : deception who is to tell if the revelation of the deception is not also a : deception. I have seen survivors go back and forth wondering whether or not : their abuse happened, most times I think fruitlessly hoping it didn’t. : There are a million stories and a million different ways of telling each : one. : : another interesting feature of this was, a few other people in the group : came out with similar revelations in the aftermath. not wholesale, but : more : along the lines of "ok, i made this and this up, but that and that really : happened." : : Yep – I also understand that. And what I have found for me is rarely : anymore do I attempt to discover or determine the validity of what anyone : says – its pointless – or has become so to me. If what is said has value to : me or I have something to say of value around it – I will – I’m tired of : being a personally appointed judge. I care about the validity of what : happens in my personal world – I’ll leave theirs to them. When someone I knew on AOL who posed as a 13 year old child came to IRC and continued the charade, while having several adults act as "parent figures" to her… when she came clean and admitted to actually being a 23 year old chick, I was astonished how easily everyone accepted her lie. They stated pretty much the same rationale as you have, above. I guess seeing what she did to the folks on AOL that *really cared about her jaded my view. I used to care. Now I couldn’t care less. In that case also – she involved people in a pattern of deception – she made them care about her fantasy world and she involved them into playing a part in her deception. That kind of thing is the kind of thing that will piss me off. You can lie to me and I’ll let it run off my back but when you manipulate and involve people into actually entering your life and/or caring and worrying about things that have no basis in fact – like safety matters – it sucks and its using and manipulating people. That seems a lot different to me than the person who just lies about their history and doesn’t actively involve people in a scenario and cause them to have a part in it. Its amazing the lengths people will go to – isn’t it?

It bothers me more when people lie about other people, what other purpose could there be for that other than to hurt someone or instigate something? If someone lies about themselves, I figure they must really hate who they are, and they have a lot of problems they need to work on, and in the end it hurts them more than it hurts me because they are really lying to themselves. I don’t take it personally, because it isn’t about me. I just won’t trust much of what they tell me. When someone lies about someone else, well, that is an attack, as far as I am concerned, and that is a person I will forever be wary of. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : got to the point where i was saying to myself, what the hell’s the : difference? : : Exactly – if x is lying or not? What difference does that have to me and my : world if it does not concern my world on a personal level. If they have : that need – then that alone says something and opens up an area that for : them they maybe should look at. But its not my issue. : : i mean in court, to the media, around the family dinner table, : sure. but in someone’s private therapy? in an anonymous support group? : naw. they have a reason for telling the story they tell, that’s the : reality : that matters. : : Yeppers. : : : abuse takes many forms and not all of them are easy to : express in the aftermath in a way that adequately describes it. : : Ain’t that the truth? : : cal

Response:

You know, I’m embarrassed to admit that I was buying into a lot of this until I read your posts to/about Dragon, then I sorta lost it all. Shar

Response:

You can lie to me and I’ll let it run off my back I can’t. I can’t tolerate people who lie. Maybe when I’m in my fifties, I’ll be more tolerant. You learned your hard way; I guess I’ll have to learn my hard way.

i’m not sure there’s really that much hard way to it… for me it’s more just a realization that a lot of the time it doesn’t cost me any more to be tolerant than intolerant, and that being so, tolerant usually leads to better things. people have various reasons for lying. it’s not always because they want to hurt/ manipulate/ control. but when i decide that it is, i have no more tolerance for it than you do, and i won’t even when i’m in my 100’s, i don’t think. cal

Response:

Shardik, is it awful hating me as much as you do yet unable to walk away? It must be hard to be so crazy out of control all the time. To be thought so unimportant by the person you seem to need the most attention from must be really killer.

Sure, that’s why I respond to only about .01 percent of your posts yet you respond to at least fifty percent of mine, and I’m filtered! Course, I really do have a life and am not online as much as you. Shar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ta.

Response:

I’m still *extremely pissed about *that one. Not just because he lied through his teeth for *decades, but while doing so, he had the nerve to give others a "talking to" about *their recovery. He ruined for me EVER fully believing anything anyone says. I’ve always felt "why lie ONLINE?" I mean, how fucking stupid.

i guess i would figure that anyone who’d put that much energy (decades!) into sustaining a fiction like this must be pretty fucked up in *some* way. i’d be angry too though, especially if i’d expended a bunch of energy and time in trying to be supportive, wasted compassion. that last phrase makes me wonder though, if compassion is ever really wasted. time and energy, sure. i can see that all right. but maybe the karma points from compassion redound to us regardless. <snip When someone I knew on AOL who posed as a 13 year old child came to IRC and continued the charade, while having several adults act as "parent figures" to her… when she came clean and admitted to actually being a 23 year old chick, I was astonished how easily everyone accepted her lie. They stated pretty much the same rationale as you have, above. I guess seeing what she did to the folks on AOL that *really cared about her jaded my view. I used to care. Now I couldn’t care less.

there was a similar case around here 4-5 years ago… wonder if it’s the same one? except in this one the "girl" was a bit younger and turned out to be a guy, now that i recall. "she" had a bunch of us going, and after a couple of days someone called children’s aid in "her" town and the ruse collapsed. the rage was palpable. but then the bugger even had the gall to post one more time, to say: "i haven’t lied. everything —- described to you is happening to young girls everywhere." check, asshole. name two. some of us got to talking about it afterwards though, and we agreed that if another preadolescent were to start posting late at night that she was terrified her drunk step-dad was coming up the stairs to rape her, we’d probably fall for it again… and again and again. somebody… might have been me… said, it’s better to be played for a sucker a thousand times than to be wrong the other way one time. still, i suppose it would wear on one after a few times. good job it doesn’t happen too often. cal

Response:

And to me, this is what liz is doing. Manipulation plus, and manipulation pisses me off. You can lie to me and I’ll let it run off my back I can’t. I can’t tolerate people who lie. Maybe when I’m in my fifties, I’ll be more tolerant. You learned your hard way; I guess I’ll have to learn my hard way. Shar but when you – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – manipulate and involve people into actually entering your life and/or caring and worrying about things that have no basis in fact – like safety matters – it sucks and its using and manipulating people. That seems a lot different to me than the person who just lies about their history and doesn’t actively involve people in a scenario and cause them to have a part in it. Its amazing the lengths people will go to – isn’t it? : : got to the point where i was saying to myself, what the hell’s the : difference? : : Exactly – if x is lying or not? What difference does that have to me and my : world if it does not concern my world on a personal level. If they have : that need – then that alone says something and opens up an area that for : them they maybe should look at. But its not my issue. : : i mean in court, to the media, around the family dinner table, : sure. but in someone’s private therapy? in an anonymous support group? : naw. they have a reason for telling the story they tell, that’s the : reality : that matters. : : Yeppers. : : : abuse takes many forms and not all of them are easy to : express in the aftermath in a way that adequately describes it. : : Ain’t that the truth? : : cal — For more information about this NNTP posting service, contact: If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

Liz, I’d be quite wary of anybody that has a strong need to see my kids alone. My mother is in this category. She wants my son to visit by himself when he’s a bit older. This isn’t going to happen. I’m sorry that your sister threatened you like that and was working behind your back. I wonder if she forgot just who’s interests she should have been looking out for. Certainly not your kids. As far as calling CPS on you, I’d be terrified over here since CAS has so much power. take care, Eric f w v e r w i j s AT h o t m a i l DOT c o m "It’s not the sharpness of the blade, or how much light it shows It’s more the way the wisdom’s used, than just how much one knows" Arctic Rose by Susan Aglukark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped up, so be it. I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, 27 years. "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . . I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, and I didn’t want to seem to be trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I mean? I wanted you to know that I wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my instincts. I thought then I *had to be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. But I know now, I believe now every instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy and if I don’t write this letter, and something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so here we go. One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a hike is that I refused to allow him to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why I had to stay, yada blah. I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest friends are all women, and they all had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone with mine, and angry when I refused. He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries with the kids. He did things I said specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and tell them not to tell me the content of those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my kids. Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows and hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to write to him but not to tell me they were talking. And I hit the roof. I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set himself up as the trusted savior? Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent him from going to the kids school. Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed me to them. My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to circumvent my rules. She countered with the kids need someone to tell important secrets to. I said it’s ridiculous that you want to teach my kids to hide from me, and worse that you obviously cannot respect my ultimate authority where they are concerned. She said if I tried to go against X (who she has long had a crush on, in yet another Jerry Springer twist to all this), she would stand up for him in court. I said show up, and I’ll call animal control and tell them about your seventy (literally) cats. She then informed me that she was going to use her *ace in the hole* (her words) and call CPS and tell them I am abusing the kids, at which point I informed her that if she ever showed up in my world again I’d see her animals in the gas chamber myself. The whole thing, the whole nasty, white trashy Jerry Springer thing, Julia I have spent YEARS cleaning Runnymede St. off of me, so that kind of thing would never touch my children’s lives, and they brought it all back. Now, on top of the kids having to be told why I didn’t want X around them, my sister further undermines their feelings of safety by threatening to stick them in foster care, knowing

Response:

Hello Suzanne.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – X-No-Archive: yes One other thing about darling sis, is during the convo I taped, where she said she was going to call CPS and tell them I was abusing the kids, she first said she had been holding onto the idea as her ‘ace in the hole’ a ‘card she would play if she ever needed it’. I asked her, what do you think they will say when you tell them you thought I was abusing the kids but waited till now to bring it up, and she said that she would tell them that she had been afraid of them ending up in foster care. I mentioned at that point, um, you just got through saying the reason you are saying this at *all is because it is your ‘ace in the hole’. Um? Hello? Get the pic, sister dear? I have you on tape saying the only reason you would make the allegations at *all are to threaten me with your ‘ace in the hole’, the ‘card you have been holding onto in case you needed it’. I don’t need to read any more. Yes, indeedy, you *should be a writer! What an imagination! We each, I think, deal with it in our own unique manner – the aftermath is where we are, I call it that. You do, I do – each one of us in a different way. Some of us use violence, some of us cut, some of us rage, some of us lie. I’ve got to ask you – who are we to judge one another? What you saw as imagination and lying – I saw as a lot of drawing in destructive drama. I found it interesting that we saw it so differently. You read it with anger – I read it with sadness and resignation. I read it with those two things because I’ve surrounded myself with that drama. I see her anger at her sister as justified – she feels betrayed probably by all of her family as most of us who were abused by family members have or do. I also see the manner in which she chose to deal with it as bringing in more and more conflict and anger. I don’t have an answer for her – I don’t believe you can either. I can only look at my own experience and say that the drama never worked well for me and engaging in conflicting exchanges only brought me more turmoil and upset. But for a very long time that was where I was and that was what I had to do because that worked for me. Because I wouldn’t now at this point in my life choose the path to solve the problem she did – do I judge her – no fucking way. I can only repeat what I’ve said here before – you need to be where you are at the time you are there. We are all in various degrees of recovery – we are all fighting to live and survive and grab whatever chunk of normal we can get out of life and hopefully with that a little bit of happiness. For every way I react to my abuse – I try to keep in mind that there are 1,000 different ways of dealing with the same issues. I’m tired ……. very tired….. of seeing people here judge each other so harshly when we are all in the same boiling pot trying to find a spot that doesn’t burn the hell out of us. Something touches us in a fearful way or an angry way and we rise up and what comes out – often the anger and dysfunction that we were taught – it takes such fucking control to not react out of that default position for me. I have seen you time after time go after Liz Shar – like she is you purpose in life to follow around and tell how wrong she is. She may well be – its not mine to judge – its her’s to peel away the layers and find whats there and what will work for her. Its not yours to judge either and its uncomfortable for me to constantly read your attacks because I like you and enough is enough already. I don’t want to hear what you think about Liz – I’m much rather hear what you think about you. I did the same thing with a couple of individuals here – I connected my recovery to my perceived wrongness of their actions. My recovery became about refuting their actions and theirs was about mine and everyone here was subjected to the uglines that transpired and not one person wanted to read it. I don’t know if there is anyone here who actually wants to open up the newsgroup and read your attacks – as I am sure they didn’t want to open up the newsgroup and read what flew back and forth between me and the other individuals. As I needed to question myself as to why I was so attached to the years long conflict that I was involved in – I challenge you to look inside yourself and question the same thing about your conflict here. When you are not attacking Liz – you have so much to offer here and I read all of your posts grabbing up that wisdom because I consider it that, you have helped me many many times see myself and problems that arise in ways that I have not considered but needed to. Not one of us here has the right to judge how anyone deals with the aftermath of abuse. If someone attacks you, then I can see tell them what for – but to chase them around judging every thought retards any growth that might happen and stunts it with conflict. If you disagree with what Liz is doing or how she is doing it – open up a dialog, start a thread, discuss it or just ignore it and her. Bottom line to me – I ‘have’ seen growth there and I ‘have’ seen self discovery and I don’t want to ever be in the place again where I see anyone here as hopeless. Sometimes people click things in me wherein I have to just not read them – to let them go – because my recovery is not about them, its about me. When I make refuting their ideas my priority I lose my own. Ignore this or not – sometimes I just say whats in my head – this was it tonight. You have a lot more value to me than all this conflict. Shar https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

X-No-Archive: yes We each, I think, deal with it in our own unique manner – the aftermath is where we are, I call it that. You do, I do – each one of us in a different way. Some of us use violence, some of us cut, some of us rage, some of us lie.

Excuse me? I haven’t told a single lie in the whole story. I’ve got to ask you – who are we to judge one another? What you saw as imagination and lying – I saw as a lot of drawing in destructive drama.

Yes, Suzanne. It wasn’t *done to my family, I somehow drew it to us. And it was melodramatic and drawing conflict to me to think in terms of restraining orders to keep them away, rather than trying to RID my life of the conflict they bring to us? Okie dokie…

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I don’t need to read any more. Yes, indeedy, you *should be a writer! What an imagination! Shar

Response:

Also, my Dad pointed out that she felt threatened when I said I would call animal control.

Wasn’t your dad one of your abusers? And you’re consulting him???? An example of why it’s so difficult for me to believe *anything* you write! (Plus several discrepancies in your original post in this thread.) I believe you found a group of victims who are willing to accept your bs and that’s why you feel so at home. Shar His idea is, I threatened her kids (the cats, literally, seventy of them) and she threatened mine in return. But what she did was *hurt my kids. She didn’t just threaten them, she let them know that it doesn’t matter how much someone says they love you, you can’t trust them not to use you. You can’t trust them not to try to rip up your world. I hate her for that.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made : me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not : about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about : not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. : : I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned : about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, : that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped : up, so be it. : : I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, : for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s : gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my : kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, : and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and : what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend : today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, : 27 years. : : "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should : have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I : didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . : I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. : : I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, : and I didn’t want to seem to be : trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I : mean? I wanted you to know that I : wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my : instincts. I thought then I *had to : be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed : was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say : something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. : : I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. : But I know now, I believe now every : instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy : and if I don’t write this letter, and : something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so : here we go. : : One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a : hike is that I refused to allow him : to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling : Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was : *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t : want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why : I had to stay, yada blah. : : I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest : friends are all women, and they all : had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone : with mine, and angry when I refused. : : He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was : sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on : for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had : threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong : with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is : was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. : : That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no : boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, : who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s : ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it : took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? : Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries : with the kids. He did things I said : specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and : tell them not to tell me the content of : those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was : becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to : speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then : stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was : deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, : and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When : you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my : kids. : : Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my : wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he : showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. : : Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there : with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was : coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows : and : hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to : believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. : : In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he : saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to : write to him but not to tell me they were talking. : : And I hit the roof. : : I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, : adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, : who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t : left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex : with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with : my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to : undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that : it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t : need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, : while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set : himself up as the trusted savior? : : Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little : kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do : something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to : keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for : the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it : was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. : : That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent : him from going to the kids school. : Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, : behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. : : Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I : wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to : work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered : to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. : : Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote : him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and : that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If : he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a : restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public : record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. : : That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your : head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the : doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell : you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a : thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was : so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed : me to them. : : My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go : between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as : well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. : You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect : what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to : circumvent my rules. She countered with the kids need someone to tell : important secrets to. I said it’s ridiculous that you want to teach my : kids to hide from me, and worse that you obviously cannot respect my : ultimate authority where they are concerned. She said if I tried to go : against X (who she has long had a crush on, in yet another Jerry : Springer twist to all this), she

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not going to rip here and I really doubt that there will be any. Based on what you’ve said here *I* think your instincts are right on. I would have done the same…… or worse. I might have sought some "personal" intervention rather than getting a court order. I’m so glad you guys are saying this. My sister has it that she has been wronged, that I am using my kids as pawns and that my insistence on controlling who has access to them is dictatorial. No, it is your duty as their mother to do all that you can to keep them safe, and that is exactly what you are doing. Your sister has not *been* wronged… she *is* wrong. Someone else told me it’s ridiculous that they want to teach the kids to hide from me. I know all kids need to have some secrets from their parents. That’s what friendships are for, and all the kids have friends. But not the kind of thing my sister is talking about. She feels the kids need to have someone to tell things they are terrified to tell me, she says. I’m assuming she means when they end up on drugs, pregnant or in jail because beyond that, I can’t imagine what would be so bad my kids would be *afraid to tell me. And we have already had talks about the big ones. I’ve told them that if that stuff happens, we’ll just deal with it, I’ll be there to help. They would maybe be worried I’d be disappointed, but not *terrified. The idea she seems to have that it is ok for anyone else to step into our lives and make decisions about what is best for the kids which not only contradict me but actively *override me is ludicrous, right? I personally would be livid if someone dared insert themselves between my kids and I in that way, and I would do the same as you. I would make sure they never had the chance to do it to my children or myself again.

Thank you, Mica.

Response:

No, it is your duty as their mother to do all that you can to keep them safe, and that is exactly what you are doing. Your sister has not *been* wronged… she *is* wrong. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Someone else told me it’s ridiculous that they want to teach the kids to hide from me. I know all kids need to have some secrets from their parents. That’s what friendships are for, and all the kids have friends. But not the kind of thing my sister is talking about. She feels the kids need to have someone to tell things they are terrified to tell me, she says. I’m assuming she means when they end up on drugs, pregnant or in jail because beyond that, I can’t imagine what would be so bad my kids would be *afraid to tell me. And we have already had talks about the big ones. I’ve told them that if that stuff happens, we’ll just deal with it, I’ll be there to help. They would maybe be worried I’d be disappointed, but not *terrified. The idea she seems to have that it is ok for anyone else to step into our lives and make decisions about what is best for the kids which not only contradict me but actively *override me is ludicrous, right?

I personally would be livid if someone dared insert themselves between my kids and I in that way, and I would do the same as you. I would make sure they never had the chance to do it to my children or myself again.

Response:

One other thing about darling sis, is during the convo I taped, where she said she was going to call CPS and tell them I was abusing the kids, she first said she had been holding onto the idea as her ‘ace in the hole’ a ‘card she would play if she ever needed it’. I asked her, what do you think they will say when you tell them you thought I was abusing the kids but waited till now to bring it up, and she said that she would tell them that she had been afraid of them ending up in foster care. I mentioned at that point, um, you just got through saying the reason you are saying this at *all is because it is your ‘ace in the hole’. Um? Hello? Get the pic, sister dear? I have you on tape saying the only reason you would make the allegations at *all are to threaten me with your ‘ace in the hole’, the ‘card you have been holding onto in case you needed it’. She said she had told her therapist years ago that she was worried, that the therapist said ‘we MUST get those children out of there’ and that Linda intervened, not remembering, I suppose, that if she HAD said such a thing to a therapist A: they would be mandated to report the suspected abuse or risk losing their job and B; that therapist could be subpoenaed and asked, not did Linda tell you (privileged info) but why did you not report it (not privileged info). No therapist is going to risk their job. And again, sister dear, you said, before you said any of the rest of this, you are using the allegation as a hold card, a weapon to control me if you need it. Further, given her obvious insistence on trying to control their lives, who was going to believe she sat around for years while I abused them? She freaks out because the kids need to tell secrets but she will say she saw nothing wrong with their being abused? Don’t think so. I also pointed out that there are teachers and doctors and friends who would *swear I don’t hurt the kids, that I am a conscientious, loving mother. That she could make the allegations all day and it would only make her look bad, especially when *her history gets played out in court. I further informed her that if she makes the allegation, I will prove (using her taped statement that the allegation is a ‘card’ she intended to use to control me), I would ask that they prosecute for harassment and lying to the CPS. If they get an ‘anonymous call’, I will have them speak to my sister directly, after having played the tape for them. She will either make the allegation then, and I will have her taped statement or she will say no, she doesn’t abuse the kids. Either way, she loses. At best, at BEST she will look like a loon and at worst, she will paint herself into the corner of a jail cell. I mentioned too that she would have to explain her voice admitting she would never leave my children alone with the man she was set to defend in court (the man, btw, who she has for years said she had a crush on). Her position was so broke, so bankrupt. I swung between rage for what she was doing to my kids to glee at having cornered her so neatly to pity for her being so desperately impotent. NOBODY messes with my kids and my family. No body. Not my sister, no friend, no one comes before my kids and the safety of this family and if that spoiled little snot, living (at 36) with her mommy and the man who pays her bills (can’t hold a job due to psychiatric issues) comes after my family, she is going to be very, very sorry because with that tape and her history I can do far more to interfere with her life than she can mine. The smartest thing for her to do is quietly disappear from our lives, and not bother me at all. God, the more I think about it, I’m so pissed. I’m so pissed, because she KNOWS what the kids have already been through, how badly they needed her NOT to do this to them, and she did it anyway. That sick, incompetent *nothing, that absolute zero who never had to take care of herself in her life, who lives with her mother, who attached herself to an old man whose paychecks she lives off of, who has never had to do more than feed a sick cat and who has *never exhibited the kind of bravery or courage I have on behalf of my family, whose never had to sacrifice a THING for a child who needed her, that zero did this to my kids, told them that they are throw away objects to be used to win an argument and they cried, and they hurt and their ability to trust anyone further eroded and that cunt, that nasty, cowardly fucking BITCH did this to them.

Response:

X-No-Archive: yes Your sister’s behavior in this is incredibly disgusting.

Thank you. I’m so glad you said so. It’s not that she’s a bad person. I believe she loves the kids. I just don’t think she loves them as much as she needs to control. She’s trying to prove no one can tell her what to do, which goes back to our kidhood. Also, my Dad pointed out that she felt threatened when I said I would call animal control. His idea is, I threatened her kids (the cats, literally, seventy of them) and she threatened mine in return. But what she did was *hurt my kids. She didn’t just threaten them, she let them know that it doesn’t matter how much someone says they love you, you can’t trust them not to use you. You can’t trust them not to try to rip up your world. I hate her for that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made : me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not : about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about : not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. : : I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned : about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, : that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped : up, so be it. : : I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, : for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s : gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my : kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, : and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and : what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend : today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, : 27 years. : : "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should : have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I : didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . : I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. : : I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, : and I didn’t want to seem to be : trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I : mean? I wanted you to know that I : wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my : instincts. I thought then I *had to : be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed : was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say : something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. : : I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. : But I know now, I believe now every : instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy : and if I don’t write this letter, and : something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so : here we go. : : One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a : hike is that I refused to allow him : to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling : Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was : *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t : want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why : I had to stay, yada blah. : : I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest : friends are all women, and they all : had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone : with mine, and angry when I refused. : : He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was : sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on : for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had : threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong : with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is : was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. : : That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no : boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, : who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s : ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it : took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? : Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries : with the kids. He did things I said : specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and : tell them not to tell me the content of : those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was : becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to : speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then : stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was : deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, : and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When : you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my : kids. : : Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my : wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he : showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. : : Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there : with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was : coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows : and : hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to : believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. : : In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he : saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to : write to him but not to tell me they were talking. : : And I hit the roof. : : I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, : adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, : who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t : left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex : with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with : my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to : undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that : it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t : need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, : while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set : himself up as the trusted savior? : : Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little : kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do : something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to : keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for : the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it : was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. : : That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent : him from going to the kids school. : Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, : behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. : : Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I : wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to : work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered : to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. : : Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote : him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and : that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If : he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a : restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public : record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. : : That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your : head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the : doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell : you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a : thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was : so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed : me to them. : : My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go : between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as : well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. : You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect : what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to : circumvent my rules. She countered with the kids need someone to tell : important secrets to. I said it’s ridiculous that you want to teach my : kids to hide from me, and worse that you obviously cannot respect my : ultimate authority where they are concerned. She said if I tried to go : against X (who she has long had a crush on, in yet another Jerry : Springer twist to all this), she would stand up for him in court. I : said show up, and I’ll call animal control and tell them about your : seventy (literally) cats. : : She then informed me that she was going to use her *ace in the hole* : (her words) and call CPS and tell them I am abusing the kids, at which : point I informed her that if she ever showed up in my world again I’d :

Response:

damn. this sux royally. liz, i’m so sorry your sister is letting you down like this. but i think you are doing the right thing.

Thank you. I don’t mind her letting me down. She’s been flirting with this showdown over control of the kids all their lives. I knew, eventually, something would boil over. She let *them down, hurt *them, and that’s what hurts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – azure A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped up, so be it. I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, 27 years. "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . . I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, and I didn’t want to seem to be trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I mean? I wanted you to know that I wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my instincts. I thought then I *had to be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. But I know now, I believe now every instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy and if I don’t write this letter, and something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so here we go. One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a hike is that I refused to allow him to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why I had to stay, yada blah. I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest friends are all women, and they all had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone with mine, and angry when I refused. He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries with the kids. He did things I said specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and tell them not to tell me the content of those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my kids. Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows and hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to write to him but not to tell me they were talking. And I hit the roof. I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set himself up as the trusted savior? Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent him from going to the kids school. Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed me to them. My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to circumvent my rules. She countered with the kids need someone to tell important secrets to. I said it’s ridiculous that you want to teach my kids to hide from me, and worse that you obviously cannot respect my ultimate authority where they are concerned. She said if I tried to go against X (who she has long had a crush on, in yet another Jerry Springer twist to all this), she would stand up for him in court. I said show up, and I’ll call animal control and tell them about your seventy (literally) cats. She then informed me that she was going to use her *ace in the hole* (her words) and call CPS and tell them I am abusing the kids, at which point I informed her that if she ever showed up in my world again I’d see her animals in the gas chamber myself. The whole thing, the whole nasty, white trashy Jerry Springer thing, Julia I have spent YEARS cleaning Runnymede St. off of me, so that kind of thing would never touch my children’s lives, and they brought it all back. Now, on top of the kids having to be told why I didn’t want X around them, my sister further undermines their feelings of safety

Response:

more….. As to your sister’s response….. we can’t chose our families… greater the shame.

I know her response comes from how we grew up. But. . . it’s like I was telling Sarah. Some people come from lives like that and they find a way to get above it, get past it. For many of us, that was our kids, where we HAD to get over it, you know? And some other people, they can never get past it and what happened to them becomes like glue they can’t step out of, and they’re there so long it starts to feel like where they belong. Linda just couldn’t get past our histories. I had to, because my kids needed me NOT to burden them it. Understanding where Linda is coming from, what is at the root of her stuff doesn’t make it any more forgivable. She was acting in a way which could have hurt my kids. She hurt them, one more idiot adult from my past who should have known better and didn’t and *used them to get to me. The pain my children feel now, knowing that they can’t see her, is unforgivable. That it seems she has made me the bad guy who won’t let nice Aunt Lindie see her family, that pisses me off extremely. The damage she has done is unforgivable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – jeeco A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped up, so be it. I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, 27 years. "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, and I didn’t want to seem to be trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I mean? I wanted you to know that I wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my instincts. I thought then I *had to be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. But I know now, I believe now every instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy and if I don’t write this letter, and something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so here we go. One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a hike is that I refused to allow him to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why I had to stay, yada blah. I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest friends are all women, and they all had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone with mine, and angry when I refused. He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries with the kids. He did things I said specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and tell them not to tell me the content of those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my kids. Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows and hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to write to him but not to tell me they were talking. And I hit the roof. I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set himself up as the trusted savior? Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent him from going to the kids school. Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed me to them. My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to circumvent my rules. She countered with the kids need someone to tell important secrets to. I said it’s ridiculous that you want to teach my kids to hide from me, and worse that you obviously cannot respect my ultimate authority where they are

Response:

I’m not going to rip here and I really doubt that there will be any. Based on what you’ve said here *I* think your instincts are right on. I would have done the same…… or worse. I might have sought some "personal" intervention rather than getting a court order.

I’m so glad you guys are saying this. My sister has it that she has been wronged, that I am using my kids as pawns and that my insistence on controlling who has access to them is dictatorial. Someone else told me it’s ridiculous that they want to teach the kids to hide from me. I know all kids need to have some secrets from their parents. That’s what friendships are for, and all the kids have friends. But not the kind of thing my sister is talking about. She feels the kids need to have someone to tell things they are terrified to tell me, she says. I’m assuming she means when they end up on drugs, pregnant or in jail because beyond that, I can’t imagine what would be so bad my kids would be *afraid to tell me. And we have already had talks about the big ones. I’ve told them that if that stuff happens, we’ll just deal with it, I’ll be there to help. They would maybe be worried I’d be disappointed, but not *terrified. The idea she seems to have that it is ok for anyone else to step into our lives and make decisions about what is best for the kids which not only contradict me but actively *override me is ludicrous, right? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – jeeco A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped up, so be it. I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, 27 years. "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, and I didn’t want to seem to be trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I mean? I wanted you to know that I wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my instincts. I thought then I *had to be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. But I know now, I believe now every instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy and if I don’t write this letter, and something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so here we go. One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a hike is that I refused to allow him to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why I had to stay, yada blah. I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest friends are all women, and they all had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone with mine, and angry when I refused. He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries with the kids. He did things I said specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and tell them not to tell me the content of those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my kids. Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows and hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to write to him but not to tell me they were talking. And I hit the roof. I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set himself up as the trusted savior? Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent him from going to the kids school. Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed me to them. My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to circumvent

Response:

damn. this sux royally. liz, i’m so sorry your sister is letting you down like this. but i think you are doing the right thing. azure – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped up, so be it. I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, 27 years. "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . . I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, and I didn’t want to seem to be trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I mean? I wanted you to know that I wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my instincts. I thought then I *had to be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. But I know now, I believe now every instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy and if I don’t write this letter, and something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so here we go. One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a hike is that I refused to allow him to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why I had to stay, yada blah. I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest friends are all women, and they all had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone with mine, and angry when I refused. He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries with the kids. He did things I said specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and tell them not to tell me the content of those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my kids. Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows and hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to write to him but not to tell me they were talking. And I hit the roof. I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set himself up as the trusted savior? Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent him from going to the kids school. Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed me to them. My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to circumvent my rules. She countered with the kids need someone to tell important secrets to. I said it’s ridiculous that you want to teach my kids to hide from me, and worse that you obviously cannot respect my ultimate authority where they are concerned. She said if I tried to go against X (who she has long had a crush on, in yet another Jerry Springer twist to all this), she would stand up for him in court. I said show up, and I’ll call animal control and tell them about your seventy (literally) cats. She then informed me that she was going to use her *ace in the hole* (her words) and call CPS and tell them I am abusing the kids, at which point I informed her that if she ever showed up in my world again I’d see her animals in the gas chamber myself. The whole thing, the whole nasty, white trashy Jerry Springer thing, Julia I have spent YEARS cleaning Runnymede St. off of me, so that kind of thing would never touch my children’s lives, and they brought it all back. Now, on top of the kids having to be told why I didn’t want X around them, my sister further undermines their feelings of safety by threatening to stick them in foster care, knowing what they had already been through. It’s just unforgivable. It just all got so dirty so quick. And I have tried for so long to keep them clean of all this shitty, dingy shit, Jules. Everything you and I grew up with, you know? The lies and games and twists and turns, the secrets, above all the secrets you could never tell. Keep in mind that my sister says, outright, X should never be left alone with the kids. This is the same woman who, though she KNEW he was guilty, testified on my half brother’s behalf when they

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped up, so be it. I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, 27 years. "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, and I didn’t want to seem to be trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I mean? I wanted you to know that I wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my instincts. I thought then I *had to be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. But I know now, I believe now every instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy and if I don’t write this letter, and something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so here we go. One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a hike is that I refused to allow him to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why I had to stay, yada blah. I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest friends are all women, and they all had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone with mine, and angry when I refused. He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries with the kids. He did things I said specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and tell them not to tell me the content of those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my kids. Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows and hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to write to him but not to tell me they were talking. And I hit the roof. I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set himself up as the trusted savior? Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent him from going to the kids school. Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed me to them. My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to circumvent my rules. She countered with the kids need someone to tell important secrets to. I said it’s ridiculous that you want to teach my kids to hide from me, and worse that you obviously cannot respect my ultimate authority where they are concerned. She said if I tried to go against X (who she has long had a crush on, in yet another Jerry Springer twist to all this), she would stand up for him in court. I said show up, and I’ll call animal control and tell them about your seventy (literally) cats. She then informed me that she was going to use her *ace in the hole* (her words) and call CPS and tell them I am abusing the kids, at which point I informed her that if she ever showed up in my world again I’d see her animals in the gas chamber myself. The whole thing, the whole nasty, white trashy Jerry Springer thing, Julia I have spent YEARS cleaning Runnymede St. off of me, so that kind of thing would never touch my children’s lives, and they brought it all back. Now, on top of the kids having to be told why I didn’t want X around them, my sister further undermines their feelings of safety by threatening to stick them in foster care, knowing what they had already been through. It’s just unforgivable. It just all got so dirty so quick. And I have tried for so long to keep them clean of all this shitty, dingy shit, Jules. Everything you and I grew up with, you know? The lies and games and twists and turns, the secrets, above all the secrets you could never tell. Keep in mind that my sister says, outright, X should never be

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more….. As to your sister’s response….. we can’t chose our families… greater the shame. jeeco

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A few days ago I alluded to things that had happened offline which made me understand why I have let go of certain people, and that it’s not about not being able to maintain relationships so much as it is about not *wanting to maintain unhealthy ones anymore. I talked to a couple of people about what had happened. I was concerned about discussing it here, for obvious reasons. I decided, in the end, that this was the only place it *should be discussed. If it gets ripped up, so be it. I’ve spoken before of my ex-best friend, who we shall now refer to as X, for legal reasons. He’s the one I’ve known since I was eleven, he’s gay, I pushed him out a year or so ago, wouldn’t let him baby sit my kids, yadablah ANYWAY: the idea is, this is someone I loved very much, and still, I never trusted him alone with my kids. This is why, and what happened most recently. It’s a letter I wrote to my oldest friend today We’ve known each other since she was 10 and I 11, which is what, 27 years. "I haven’t known how to write this. Partly because I think I should have written it when we first got back into touch, and I feel guilty I didn’t. Partly because I am afraid you will think I was wrong, think. . . I don’t know, that I am an evil person being unfair and whatall. I didn’t say this when I probably should have because X is your friend, and I didn’t want to seem to be trying to break up that friendship for my ego’s sake, do you know what I mean? I wanted you to know that I wasn’t going to pressure you to drop X. And then, I didn’t trust my instincts. I thought then I *had to be wrong. Better to keep my mouth shut then over something I believed was just faulty wiring, hysteria on my part due to the abuse than to say something about X which could follow him for the rest of his life. I never in a million years imagined this would get as bad as it did. But I know now, I believe now every instinct, every red warning flag I saw was right, that I am not crazy and if I don’t write this letter, and something *happens, I’ll never forgive myself and neither would you, so here we go. One of the reasons X was so angry with me before I told him to take a hike is that I refused to allow him to babysit my kids. He offered *zillions of times, was often telling Lyle and I to go ahead, he and the kids would be fine, etc. He was *angry with me when I wouldn’t do it. I never told him why I didn’t want him to be left alone with the kids, I just always had a reason why I had to stay, yada blah. I think. . . X has a lot of friends with kids, you know? His closest friends are all women, and they all had or have small children. He was very adamant about being left alone with mine, and angry when I refused. He told me once not long ago that when he was Kevin’s age, he was sexually molested by the older guy who lived next door. This went on for a whole summer, he said. It wasn’t consensual, because the guy had threatened X, he had said. He then told me that he saw nothing wrong with a grownup sharing that kind of thing with a kid that age. That is was a loving, tender thing to do, etc. That statement, made when my son was nearby, from Uncle X who had no boyfriend, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, that was when I *knew, but it took me a while to admit it to myself, you know? Then, the angrier he got with me, the more he tested all my boundaries with the kids. He did things I said specifically were not ok. He would have conversations with them, and tell them not to tell me the content of those discussions, that mommy didn’t need to know everything. He was becoming increasingly verbally abusive to Kevin. When I told him not to speak to him that way, he yelled at me in front of the kids, then stormed out, slamming my front door. Then he told Jenny that I was deliberately trying to ruin her life, trying to undermine her education, and that’s when I finally said X, you’re sick, you need help. When you’ve gotten it, you can come back but until then, stay away from my kids. Except for a couple of phone calls, or gifts delivered, he adhered to my wishes. I said NO COMMUNICATION at all. Then, a week or so ago, he showed up at Jen and Kev’s school. Now, according to X, he had no idea they attended there. He was there with a friend, the mother of another student. He says it was coincidence, but our name is in the school directory. That boy knows and hangs out with my daughter, I found out later. It’s not a leap to believe he knew, because the boy may well have spoken of Jenny. In any case, his showing up wasn’t so bad, if it is coincidence. But he saw Jenny in the hall, and gave her his e mail addy, telling her to write to him but not to tell me they were talking. And I hit the roof. I got to wondering, why would Uncle X who could not maintain a normal, adult romantic relationship with a male or female, who collects toys, who has a zillion friends who are kids, who gets angry when he isn’t left alone with the kids, who thinks it’s ok for grownups to have sex with kids, why would he want so badly to have secret communications with my kids, whose faith and trust in me he had time and again tried to undermine, who had tried on several occasions to convince my kids that it’s ok to have *secrets* with Uncle X that their mean old mommy didn’t need to know about? Why would he try to access my kids behind my back, while telling them what an awful mother I am? Was he trying to set himself up as the trusted savior? Would X have ever acted on what I think may be fantasies with little kids? I don’t know. I do know that when he told my daughter to do something I had specifically forbidden him to do and THEN told her to keep it a secret between them, I felt threatened by him and afraid for the kids. I knew his behavior had crossed every possible line and it was obvious that his judgement was badly impaired. That afternoon, I went to court to get a restraining order to prevent him from going to the kids school. Then I found out that my sister had phoned him the previous evening, behind my back, despite my having told her what was going on. Turns out Sarah was missing Uncle X. I had never told the kids why I wouldn’t let him come back, except that he had some things he needed to work out. So she didn’t know. My SISTER knew, though. And she offered to talk to X *for Sarah, telling Sarah mom didn’t need to know about it. Because this could, conceivably, have seemed to X as an invite, I wrote him and let him know that Linda does not and cannot speak for me and that he is to have no contact or communication with my kids at all. If he couldn’t respect that, he would force me to go to court to seek a restraining order and that would force me to make part of a public record WHY I wanted one, and why I thought he was a danger to my kids. That finishes the X thing. I know you’re sitting there, shaking your head and thinking I must be out of my mind. I was the same way when the doubts first started niggling at my brain. I don’t know what to tell you except this is what happened with me. He may never have done a thing, but I wasn’t waiting around to find out, especially since he was so *hot to get at the kids without my knowing about it while he trashed me to them. My sister…after finding out that she had offered to act as a go between the kids and X, I told her to stay the hell away from me as well. I said, you don’t have to understand why I feel the way I do. You can think I’m totally offbase, or a lunatic, but you *must respect what *I* decide is best and safe for my kids. You may NOT try to circumvent my rules. She countered with the kids need someone to tell important secrets to. I said it’s ridiculous that you want to teach my kids to hide from me, and worse that you obviously cannot respect my ultimate authority where they are concerned. She said if I tried to go against X (who she has long had a crush on, in yet another Jerry Springer twist to all this), she would stand up for him in court. I said show up, and I’ll call animal control and tell them about your seventy (literally) cats. She then informed me that she was going to use her *ace in the hole* (her words) and call CPS and tell them I am abusing the kids, at which point I informed her that if she ever showed up in my world again I’d see her animals in the gas chamber myself. The whole thing, the whole nasty, white trashy Jerry Springer thing, Julia I have spent YEARS cleaning Runnymede St. off of me, so that kind of thing would never touch my children’s lives, and they brought it all back. Now, on top of the kids having to be told why I didn’t want X around them, my sister further undermines their feelings of safety by threatening to stick them in foster care, knowing what they had already been through. It’s just unforgivable. It just all got so dirty so quick. And I have tried for so long to keep them clean of all this shitty, dingy shit, Jules. Everything you and I grew up with, you know? The lies and games and twists and turns, the secrets, above all the secrets you could never tell. Keep in mind that my sister says, outright, X should never be left alone with the kids. This is the same woman who, though she KNEW he was guilty, testified on my half brother’s behalf when they sent him to prison for raping his nine year old daughter. Because she grew up with the idea that it all had to be kept secret, she believes *every family has secrets like this, and every kid is looking desperately for a place or person to save them. She doesn’t *get I kept the kids from having to worry about that. That they have *friends she never had if they want to tell secrets, that they don’t live the same kind of life. She just wigged out. She said I had no right to say anything that could ruin X’s life, even if it was … read more »

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