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Woman killed by bear in Smoky Mtns?

Question:

Blakely, Yes, Al Kubeluis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like Larry said: if you’re being attacked by a bear who wants to eat you: fight back; make yourself unappetizing.  If you’re being attacked by a bear who is scared of you or defending its territory, play dead; become non-threatening.  Climbing a tree won’t do you any good: black bears can climb trees and grizzly bears can knock trees over.  You can’t tell the difference between a black bear and a grizzly bear by the colour. Gotta tell this joke.  It has circulated widely, but for those who haven’t heard it … With all the concern about bears and attacks, hikers have come to wearing bells and carrying pepper spray in case of a chance encounter with a bear. Since the two main types of bears are Black Bears and Grizzly Bears, it is important to be able to tell them apart. The Black Bear eats mostly berries and squirrels while Grizzlies will eat just about anything.  If you find some bear scat on the trail, you can easily tell which kind of bear produced it.  If it is from a Black Bear, it will contain lots of seeds and bits of fur.  If it contains bell clappers and smell like pepper, then it is from a Grizzly. (Apologies to the original writer and any wildlife biologists). Blakely LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA The best adventure is yet to come.

Response:

Other than  your personal opinion, can you  offer any supporting evidence for your description of the so-called  "classic predatory attack"?, or  "Any bear that is following you, suspect that it’s behavior is predatory. All night attacks  are predatory."?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Unusual, but not freaky. The incident seems to be a classic predatory black bear attack. The real unusual element is that this attack involved a pair of bears, one a female. These attacks are generally made by solitary, young male bears. It’s worth noting that most Grizzley attacks are reactions to invading their space, they just stomp you until they don’t feel your a threat anymore. Playing dead an option in these attacks. Most deaths from black bears are predatory, playing dead makes you lunch. Any bear that is following you, suspect that it’s behavior is predatory. All night attacks are predatory. Check out Rec.Backcountry, this is a constant thread. SYOTR Larry C.

Response:

typed:I guess what bothers me most about the "Killer Bear" threads in rec.backcountry, is the absolute lack of "Hypothermia: The Silent Killer" threads. Now I know being mauled or partially eaten by a bear is a memorable event. Probably has to do with ome subconscious memory of the Pleistocene…..but in North America hypothermia, drowning, falls, lightning and alcohol poisoning probably accounts for 99% of the (regrettably) low mortality in the great outdoors.

Statistically, bees and hornets are responsible for more deaths than any other species. However, reaction to bee sting isn’t a very exciting story, although a surprising number of people display enough of an allergic reaction to be life threatening. OF course, attacks and deaths by domestic animals far exceed all the attacks by wildlife combined. Most of the other accidents/deaths in the backcountry tend to fall under stupidity. I live about 30 miles for Red River Gorge (KY), a very popular hiking, climbing, fishing and party hangout. We average 4 to 6 deaths a year in the gorge (mostly falls), it’s is seldom anyone local. The Locals usually refer to the victims as IFO’s, idiots from the state on our northern border. BTW, a large portion is drug and/or alcohol related. Still not as exciting as getting eaten by a bear :^). SYOTR Larry C.

Response:

I guess what bothers me most about the "Killer Bear" threads in rec.backcountry, is the absolute lack of "Hypothermia: The Silent Killer" threads. Now I know being mauled or partially eaten by a bear is a memorable event. Probably has to do with some subconscious memory of the Pleistocene…..but in North America hypothermia, drowning, falls, lightning and alcohol poisoning probably accounts for 99% of the (regrettably) low mortality in the great outdoors. (Don’t Ask) Yet the snake bite/scorpion bite /bear bite/wolf bite risk sure makes for more interesting Usenet discussion. BTW there is a great hypothermia site at http://www.sarbc.org/hypo.htmlwhich is undoubtedly  more relevant to canoeists!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Blakely, Yes, Al Kubeluis Like Larry said: if you’re being attacked by a bear who wants to eat you: fight back; make yourself unappetizing.  If you’re being attacked by a bear who is scared of you or defending its territory, play dead; become non-threatening.  Climbing a tree won’t do you any good: black bears can climb trees and grizzly bears can knock trees over.  You can’t tell the difference between a black bear and a grizzly bear by the colour. Gotta tell this joke.  It has circulated widely, but for those who haven’t heard it … With all the concern about bears and attacks, hikers have come to wearing bells and carrying pepper spray in case of a chance encounter with a bear. Since the two main types of bears are Black Bears and Grizzly Bears, it is important to be able to tell them apart. The Black Bear eats mostly berries and squirrels while Grizzlies will eat just about anything.  If you find some bear scat on the trail, you can easily tell which kind of bear produced it.  If it is from a Black Bear, it will contain lots of seeds and bits of fur.  If it contains bell clappers and smell like pepper, then it is from a Grizzly. (Apologies to the original writer and any wildlife biologists). Blakely LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA The best adventure is yet to come.

Response:

typed:Damn straight!  I am still amazed at the behaviour I see every time I go to the mountains.  From people stopping in the middle of the highway to look at an animal (pull over please, people) to people getting out and approaching them.  These are not tame animals, folks.  In Canada’s mountain parks, far more injuries are caused by Elk than by bears, and the primary reason for this is that people don’t treat them with the proper respect.

During my first trip to the Everglades, I watched a man taking photos of alligator kneeling about 4′ from it’s nose. The gator was a fairly big one (at least to me!), probably 8′ long. I was taking bets that the alligator was about to have lunch. I don’t feel that you need to be scared of bears(alright,it’s OK to be afraid of Grizzley Bears) or other large wildlife, just be aware of what behavior to avoid conflict. I’ve lived around poisonous snakes all my life, including working, boating, hiking and crawling around some pretty good snake habitat. During all this time, I’ve had only one really close call with a snake (I stepped on the head of a Copperhead). I watch where I step, I don’t stick my hand anywhere I haven’t looked, and I give any snake I see an escape route. Same goes for bears, learn what behavior triggers an attack and avoid it. SYOTR Larry C.

Response:

Like Larry said: if you’re being attacked by a bear who wants to eat you: fight back; make yourself unappetizing.  If you’re being attacked by a bear who is scared of you or defending its territory, play dead; become non-threatening.  Climbing a tree won’t do you any good: black bears can climb trees and grizzly bears can knock trees over.  You can’t tell the difference between a black bear and a grizzly bear by the colour.

Gotta tell this joke.  It has circulated widely, but for those who haven’t heard it … With all the concern about bears and attacks, hikers have come to wearing bells and carrying pepper spray in case of a chance encounter with a bear.  Since the two main types of bears are Black Bears and Grizzly Bears, it is important to be able to tell them apart. The Black Bear eats mostly berries and squirrels while Grizzlies will eat just about anything.  If you find some bear scat on the trail, you can easily tell which kind of bear produced it.  If it is from a Black Bear, it will contain lots of seeds and bits of fur.  If it contains bell clappers and smell like pepper, then it is from a Grizzly. (Apologies to the original writer and any wildlife biologists). Blakely LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA The best adventure is yet to come.

Response:

It’s not the bears you need to worry about, it’s the moose. I know several folks who have been charged by moose around here. One has pictures from the back seat of a canoe taken in sequence as the cow moose pins her ears back and jumps into the river, swimming towards them…..meanwhile, his wife in the front is paddling frantically backwards. When the moose got to within 15 yards he decided he better put down the camera and assist his by now screaming spouse with the paddling. Think he ended up sleeping on the sofa for a few days over that one. Regards, Patrick S. Friend  RRT K7ETT;  NRA-E Billings, MT

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, most of the population today grew up watching Disney in a suburb. I’ve found that this has given a lot of people a unrealistic view of wild animal behavior. Bears are large, strong wild animals that are quite capable of injuring you. There are no Gentle Ben’s and Bambi’s in the real woods. The best defense is knowledge of bear behavior and being aware of your surroundings. Don’t get Tunnel Vision in the woods. Be Aware and Be Alive. Damn straight!  I am still amazed at the behaviour I see every time I go to the mountains.  From people stopping in the middle of the highway to look at an animal (pull over please, people) to people getting out and approaching them.  These are not tame animals, folks.  In Canada’s mountain parks, far more injuries are caused by Elk than by bears, and the primary reason for this is that people don’t treat them with the proper respect.  I know that when my wife and I encountered a Mule deer with her two fawns (and this was late Sept. so they were pretty big) on a trail, we gave her a wide berth, to the extent of bushwhacking for a few hundred yards.  I wonder how many tourists would have approached her? It is true, however, that bear attacks are pretty rare.  With millions of people wandering through Canada’s mountain parks every year, there are only a few serious incidents.  Generally, the bears want to keep away from people.  It’s generally only when they learn that people are a source of food that they become a problem.  (So take proper precautions with your food.  As the saying goes: "A fed bear is a dead bear.")  The one bear I’ve seen on the river ran away at the first sight of boaters.  The ones near the highways are a bit more tolerant of people–to the point that when my dog went to visit a momma bear with two cubs she didn’t kill him, nor did she chase him back to me and kill me.  (Okay, maybe I was a bit lucky, but it emphasizes the point that they really don’t want anything to do with people.) Like Larry said: if you’re being attacked by a bear who wants to eat you: fight back; make yourself unappetizing.  If you’re being attacked by a bear who is scared of you or defending its territory, play dead; become non-threatening.  Climbing a tree won’t do you any good: black bears can climb trees and grizzly bears can knock trees over.  You can’t tell the difference between a black bear and a grizzly bear by the colour.  While most black bears are black and most grizzlies are brown, both bears can be found in many colours, including black, brown, cinnamon and blond. There’s an island off the BC coast where the black bears are actually white. Be safe out there. -Paul

Response:

However, most of the population today grew up watching Disney in a suburb. I’ve found that this has given a lot of people a unrealistic view of wild animal behavior. Bears are large, strong wild animals that are quite capable of injuring you. There are no Gentle Ben’s and Bambi’s in the real woods. The best defense is knowledge of bear behavior and being aware of your surroundings. Don’t get Tunnel Vision in the woods. Be Aware and Be Alive.

Damn straight!  I am still amazed at the behaviour I see every time I go to the mountains.  From people stopping in the middle of the highway to look at an animal (pull over please, people) to people getting out and approaching them.  These are not tame animals, folks.  In Canada’s mountain parks, far more injuries are caused by Elk than by bears, and the primary reason for this is that people don’t treat them with the proper respect.  I know that when my wife and I encountered a Mule deer with her two fawns (and this was late Sept. so they were pretty big) on a trail, we gave her a wide berth, to the extent of bushwhacking for a few hundred yards.  I wonder how many tourists would have approached her? It is true, however, that bear attacks are pretty rare.  With millions of people wandering through Canada’s mountain parks every year, there are only a few serious incidents.  Generally, the bears want to keep away from people.  It’s generally only when they learn that people are a source of food that they become a problem.  (So take proper precautions with your food.  As the saying goes: "A fed bear is a dead bear.")  The one bear I’ve seen on the river ran away at the first sight of boaters.  The ones near the highways are a bit more tolerant of people–to the point that when my dog went to visit a momma bear with two cubs she didn’t kill him, nor did she chase him back to me and kill me.  (Okay, maybe I was a bit lucky, but it emphasizes the point that they really don’t want anything to do with people.) Like Larry said: if you’re being attacked by a bear who wants to eat you: fight back; make yourself unappetizing.  If you’re being attacked by a bear who is scared of you or defending its territory, play dead; become non-threatening.  Climbing a tree won’t do you any good: black bears can climb trees and grizzly bears can knock trees over.  You can’t tell the difference between a black bear and a grizzly bear by the colour.  While most black bears are black and most grizzlies are brown, both bears can be found in many colours, including black, brown, cinnamon and blond.  There’s an island off the BC coast where the black bears are actually white. Be safe out there. -Paul

Response:

However, most of the population today grew up watching Disney in a suburb. I’ve found that this has given a lot of people a unrealistic view of wild animal behavior.

Very true.  We tend to believe that our local environment is relatively safe, but that foreign destinations are full of danger.  As someone who grew up in the forest,  it took a number of trips to the desert for me to get comfortable with the fact that there wasn’t some venomous creature ready to spring forth from under every rock or out of every hole. Just as I chuckle a bit about people’s fear of being in the woods, (clostrophobia, Timber Wolves or Bears behind every tree), I am sure I provided plenty of entertainment for the citizens of Utah and Arizona with my own set of irrational fears. Be Aware and Be Alive.

To this I would only prefix:  Be Informed. Blakely LaCroix Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA The best adventure is yet to come.

Response:

Very true.  We tend to believe that our local environment is relatively safe, but that foreign destinations are full of danger.  As someone who grew up in the forest,  it took a number of trips to the desert for me to get comfortable with the fact that there wasn’t some venomous creature ready to spring forth from under every rock or out of every hole. Just as I chuckle a bit about people’s fear of being in the woods, (clostrophobia, Timber Wolves or Bears behind every tree), I am sure I provided plenty of entertainment for the citizens of Utah and Arizona with my own set of irrational fears.

Some Canucks were vacationing in Australia.  Seeing a bunch of surfers out on the waves, they figured the water was safe for swimming.  As they approached the water, a surfer told them to stay out, because of shark danger.  The Canucks asked, incredulously, "You’re surfing in shark infested water?"  The Aussie replied: "You’re Canadian, right?  You camp in woods with bears in them?" -Paul

Response:

Other than  your personal opinion, can you  offer any supporting evidence for your description of the so-called  "classic predatory attack"?, or  "Any bear that is following you, suspect that it’s behavior is predatory. All night attacks  are predatory."?

The best reference on bear attacks, causes and behavior is Stephen Herreros book, Bear Attacks. He has researched bear attacks, both Grizzley and Black, from available info back to the turn of the last Century. If you travel in Bear Country, I would also suggest Backcountry Bear Basics by David Smith. This is more of a practical guide in traveling and avoiding problems with bears. It’s important to remember that bear attacks are pretty rare. Nor do I feel that you need to pack that 44 magnun to deal with bears, ( you really don’t need it for a black bear and it isn’t big enough for a Grizzley). However, most of the population today grew up watching Disney in a suburb. I’ve found that this has given a lot of people a unrealistic view of wild animal behavior. Bears are large, strong wild animals that are quite capable of injuring you. There are no Gentle Ben’s and Bambi’s in the real woods. The best defense is knowledge of bear behavior and being aware of your surroundings. Don’t get Tunnel Vision in the woods. Be Aware and Be Alive. SYOTR Larry C.

Response:

Thanks for the followup!  My sister and I just hiked that trail about a month ago.  Creepy! — Kirsten DeNoyelles http://www.dvdol.com/~kirsten/ Before you buy.

Response:

Thanks everybody!  I knew somebody would have the details of the incident. Pretty freaky incident to say the least.  Steve

Response:

Typed:Thanks everybody!  I knew somebody would have the details of the incident. Pretty freaky incident to say the least.  Steve

Unusual, but not freaky. The incident seems to be a classic predatory black bear attack. The real unusual element is that this attack involved a pair of bears, one a female. These attacks are generally made by solitary, young male bears. It’s worth noting that most Grizzley attacks are reactions to invading their space, they just stomp you until they don’t feel your a threat anymore. Playing dead an option in these attacks. Most deaths from black bears are predatory, playing dead makes you lunch. Any bear that is following you, suspect that it’s behavior is predatory. All night attacks are predatory. Check out Rec.Backcountry, this is a constant thread. SYOTR Larry C.

Response:

National Park Service "morning report" has the details: http://www.nps.gov/morningreport/msg00550.html and http://www.nps.gov/morningreport/msg00551.html Ok, ok….I know this is off topic.  But my son saw something about it on the news this morning, and I was wondering if it really happended or not. Anybody got the scoop?

Before you buy.

Response:

Ok, ok….I know this is off topic.  But my son saw something about it on the news this morning, and I was wondering if it really happended or not.  Anybody got the scoop?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000522/aponline133704… — Charlie…

Response:

This from this morning’s Knoxville paper. It’s a second-day story. GATLINBURG — Officials at the Great Smoky Mountains National Park said Monday the fatal mauling of a Cosby woman by a black bear appeared to be unprovoked, but the incident won’t change the park’s bear management policy. Acting park Superintendent Philip Francis said the victim — Glenda Ann Bradley, 50, of Cosby — apparently did nothing to incite the attack Sunday afternoon and her day pack, which contained food, was undisturbed. "This is an extremely rare occurrence," Francis said. "We’ve been studying black bears here in the park for over 30 years without incident. This is our first fatal attack, and maybe the first in the Eastern United States." Bradley, a teacher at Jones Cove Elementary School, in Sevier County, was accompanied by her former husband, Ralph Hill, 52, also of Cosby. The attack occurred between 2 and 3 p.m. Park officials said the two entered the park about noon at the Little River trailhead above Elkmont Campground. About 21/2 miles into the backcountry Hill and Bradley separated when Hill went fishing. A short while later Hill went back to join Bradley and found her already dead about 40 yards off the footpath at the intersection of the Little River and Goshen Prong trails. Hovering over Bradley’s body was a 112-pound female bear with a yearling cub weighing about 40 pounds. When Hill tried to run off the bears, the adult female stood her ground and became aggressive. Hill was able to recruit help from about a dozen hikers and campers from Elkmont Campground. For several hours they threw rocks and screamed at the bears, but the bears refused to leave. At 6:05 p.m. park rangers arrived at the scene and killed both bears with their service weapons. Park wildlife biologist Kim DeLozier said the bears have been sent to the University of Tennessee for a necropsy, and park officials are virtually certain the two bears killed were the ones involved in the attack. "We know black bears have preyed on other species in the park, like white-tailed deer," DeLozier said. "Given our black-bear density and number of visitors, there’s always been the potential for this. Maybe that’s something people have underestimated in the past." DeLozier said 37 fatal black-bear attacks have been recorded in the United States. He said Sunday’s fatality was only the second fatal black-bear attack in a national park. The other occurred in Yellowstone. Estimates put the park’s black-bear population at about 1,800, more than triple the 300 to 500 animals that were estimated to exist when the park began monitoring its bears 30 years ago. DeLozier said the adult female’s small size (112 pounds as opposed to the typical female weight of 125 to 150 pounds) reflects the usual food shortage at this time of the year but does not indicate she was starved. He also said the adult shouldn’t have been overly protective of her cub since it was a yearling and almost old enough to be almost independent. The adult bear had been tagged in 1998 by UT wildlife officials for routine research purposes. DeLozier said the bear had no known nuisance history and was from all indications a truly wild bear. "To our knowledge this was not a rogue or nuisance bear," DeLozier said. Michael Pelton, who led UT’s black-bear research project in the Smokies park for over 30 years, learned of the fatal attack Sunday night at his Virginia farmhouse, where he has lived since his recent retirement. "It sounds like a predatory response on the part of the animal," Pelton said. "I have to think the bear had an instinctive reaction when the person started running or somehow responding as prey. "What makes this so rare is that it’s a black bear. Their level of aggression isn’t nearly what you find in brown (or grizzly) bears or polar bears." Joe Clark of the U.S. Geological Survey Southern Appalachian Field Lab and lead researcher of an ongoing attempt to reintroduce black bears to the Big South Fork National River and Recreation Area, said the fact that the fatal attack occurred in the Southeast and not out West makes it especially shocking. "You hear about these things in other parts of the country, but it’s a different deal when it comes home to roost," Clark said. "These are normally secretive critters, but you take an estimated 1,800 bears in a park that gets 10 million visitors, and that’s obviously a lot of bear interactions." The last serious bear attack in the park occurred in 1989 when a black bear mauled a visitor in the Chimneys Picnic Area. That same year the park recorded a total of 17 bear incidents, the highest on record. DeLozier said most occurred in areas of high use and that with the exception of the Chimneys attack, the injuries involved were minor. He said the park on average has to kill one nuisance bear a year; last year the park killed three. He said so far this year there have been few reports of nuisance bear activity. The park attracts more visitors than any national park in the country. DeLozier said the park will stick to the bear-management policy it implemented a decade ago stressing proper food storage by park users and increased monitoring of nuisance bears. Four backcountry campsites in the general area of the attack — sites 21, 23, 24 and 30 — will be closed pending confirmation of the cause of Bradley’s death. "This attack was very bizarre and rare, but in my estimation it’s as safe now to hike in the park as it ever was," DeLozier said. Reed

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Ok, ok….I know this is off topic.  But my son saw something about it on the news this morning, and I was wondering if it really happended or not.  Anybody got the scoop?

Response:

It’s unfortunately true.  I’m not sure which trail the hiker was on, but heard it was 10 miles out of Gatlinburg, which makes me think it was either in the Roaring Fork or Sugarlands area.  CNN has a story about this attack in it’s Nature section. Kirsten Ok, ok….I know this is off topic.  But my son saw something about it on the news this morning, and I was wondering if it really happended or not. Anybody got the scoop?

– Kirsten DeNoyelles http://www.dvdol.com/~kirsten/ Before you buy.

Response:

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