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Women's Shelters: From The Inside

Question:

And that is why even though in the US we spend 3 billion dollars a year for domestice volence services – there are no services for men abused by women.

If ONLY there were some way to make it treated as a human-against-human offense with NO reference to gender….   What will probably happen is eventually there will be no help for anybody being abused, and things will go backwards to where they used to be where everybody suffered in silence, men and women and children… becuz nobody will believe anybody’s claims… Gender shouldn’t even be relevant when it comes to a human being assaulting another human being.  

Response:

    Probably as terrifying as being beaten on by someone you cannot bring yourself to strike back against ( and an awful lot of us guys cannot hit women ), is the fear of being arrested in addition to the assault. There is no justice.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Too bad that those men would likely face ridicule, disbelief, or find themselves being blamed had they tried to go for help with one of the local domestic violence organizations. Seems from some of those stories that a female who kills a man or a child, will "get off" with temporary insanity pleas.  Wonder if a man who throws a two-yr old from a moving car would get the same? You know, the idea that "shoving is abuse" is interesting – it is abuse only if a guy does the shoving. During my divorce my kids mom grabbed me and threw me against a car, I called the police – mostly to have a witness present. The cops, of course, did not arrest her. Also, I broke up with a women once and she came into my house, crawled into my bed and when I wouldn’t have sex with her she beat the crap out of me. She was enraged and out of control. All I could do was cover up and hope she would finish her tantrum and leave. It was terrifying, I thought any second she was going to brain me with a heavy object or stab me or something. My only thought about the police was I was worried that she would call them and would tell them something that would get me arrested. I was relieved when she was done, probably what stopped her was my kid had woken up and she left when she heard him. I was badly shaken – though not hurt badly except for some minor bruises and sore spots. I felt some fear afterwards, double-checked my locks and just chocked it up to another life event. But try reversing the genders on that story, though, and see how it plays out. Hell, if I posted that story here with a woman’s name I would get a 4- part harmony of "poor baby" from the ASD choral with demands to seek shelter and call the cops. Men don’t think of themselves as being victims of abuse, but almost all men, if you press them on it, can recall being shoved, hit or slapped by a women – if not outright beat up. And women will actually admit to a higher incidence of hitting men then men will admit to being hit by women. But in the over-exposure of the "epidemic of domestic violence" that is shoved down our throats – it is only domestic violence if a man does it to a woman. Recently, there have been some improvements in recognition in the gay community. Now we can have a male victim – but only if there is a male perpetrator – and we can have a female batterer – but only if there is a female victim. This philosophy permeates everything from the programs used to take calls on the Nnational Domestic Violence hotline to the mandated reporter training that is required to be given to medical professionals, teachers and clinical workers. It is still improper to have a male victim and a female perp. I am dead serious when I tell you why this is, and I know a LOT of people in the domestic violence industry, men and women, and I have known some of these people for decades – it is because the DV people are fixated on the patriarchal-oppression model. Women and gays are permitted protection because they are class oppressed by the patriarchy. I am dead serious – the people who lobby for and lead these program truly believe that. And that is why even though in the US we spend 3 billion dollars a year for domestice volence services – there are no services for men abused by women. Best – Fido

Response:

Occasional pushing and sho[v]ing are explained as serious physical abuse. If you get your kicks by pushing and shoving your spouse occasionally, when she gets fed up and the cops are called, you’ll likely be arrested, do a 6-month batterers’ intervention program and pay about $1,000 in court costs and probation fees.  You might want to take that seriously.  [Roger] If you are a man, that is.

Yep. See Erin Pizzey’s comments about this, found in " Not Guilty; The Case In Defense Of Men ", by David Thomas, and footnoted in " Heterophobia ", by Daphne Patai. The " Women’s Shelter " *Industry* is all about… the money and the politics. I defy you to show me where there is a batterer’s intervention program for women. I work with a men’s crisis hotline, and we would love to add one to our database of resources.

Indeed, and excellent work. But, it’s easier to laugh at battered men then it is to help them.

Even by " men " like Roger… :-( Andre — " I’m a man… But, I can change… If I have to… I guess. "                                     The Man Prayer, Red Green.

Response:

Dude, you’re funny.  Occasional pushing and shoving IS *physical abuse*.  Just like occasional clawing, scratching, & throwing objects at a guy.

Funny how those don’t get the woman arrested, though… ? Uh huh. BTW, you ever " push " your lids ? Report yourself to CPS right now… Marital arguments are explained as serious verbal abuse. Occasional pushing and showing are explained as serious physical abuse. Decision-making is shown as emotional abuse. The staff and volunteers,

Andre — " I’m a man… But, I can change… If I have to… I guess. "                                     The Man Prayer, Red Green.

Response:

Roger and Lauri went the only way that they could: Ad Feminums: I see Andre as more of a clod than as a troll. Personally, I think he’d feel a lot better if he could just get laid.

ROTFLMAO !!! Man, I so LOVE you guy’s *insane and ignorant ASSumptions* about people whose views you just don’t like, and CAN’T debate/refute. Yeah, asd is sure PUSSIFIED these days… As for your " concern " for my sex life, toots, I’m getting the *very best sex of my life* ( And, what a great life in that area its been up to now, too ! ), with a *fantastic* ( And, unlike for most of you losers here, a *real woman*… ) *lady*, in every sense of that word. She is simply… fantastic in *every way*. We are very sympatico in almost everything, and, yes, we do discuss many of the issues I post about, too. And, we love each other very, very much. Moreover, we are *using our heads*, too. She’ll even be living with me, with us on the marriage track, within the month. Too bad you’re so *bound by your all PC insanities*, to be *able* to see past your own *studied ignorances*… And, thanks for showing that you’d rather know *nothing* about me, than face me in a debate… I guess that’s true for a lot of us, though.

Sho’ nuff… *losers* ! <laughs<laughs again Oh, and thanks *again*, for showing to all that you CAN’T debate/refute *a word* of what I posted*… LOSERS ! <laughs some more Andre — " I’m a man… But, I can change… If I have to… I guess. "                                     The Man Prayer, Red Green.

Response:

Too bad that those men would likely face ridicule, disbelief, or find themselves being blamed had they tried to go for help with one of the local domestic violence organizations. Seems from some of those stories that a female who kills a man or a child, will "get off" with temporary insanity pleas.  Wonder if a man who throws a two-yr old from a moving car would get the same?

You know, the idea that "shoving is abuse" is interesting – it is abuse only if a guy does the shoving. During my divorce my kids mom grabbed me and threw me against a car, I called the police – mostly to have a witness present. The cops, of course, did not arrest her. Also, I broke up with a women once and she came into my house, crawled into my bed and when I wouldn’t have sex with her she beat the crap out of me. She was enraged and out of control. All I could do was cover up and hope she would finish her tantrum and leave. It was terrifying, I thought any second she was going to brain me with a heavy object or stab me or something. My only thought about the police was I was worried that she would call them and would tell them something that would get me arrested. I was relieved when she was done, probably what stopped her was my kid had woken up and she left when she heard him. I was badly shaken – though not hurt badly except for some minor bruises and sore spots. I felt some fear afterwards, double-checked my locks and just chocked it up to another life event.   But try reversing the genders on that story, though, and see how it plays out. Hell, if I posted that story here with a woman’s name I would get a 4- part harmony of "poor baby" from the ASD choral with demands to seek shelter and call the cops.   Men don’t think of themselves as being victims of abuse, but almost all men, if you press them on it, can recall being shoved, hit or slapped by a women – if not outright beat up. And women will actually admit to a higher incidence of hitting men then men will admit to being hit by women. But in the over-exposure of the "epidemic of domestic violence" that is shoved down our throats – it is only domestic violence if a man does it to a woman. Recently, there have been some improvements in recognition in the gay community. Now we can have a male victim – but only if there is a male perpetrator – and we can have a female batterer – but only if there is a female victim. This philosophy permeates everything from the programs used to take calls on the Nnational Domestic Violence hotline to the mandated reporter training that is required to be given to medical professionals, teachers and clinical workers. It is still improper to have a male victim and a female perp. I am dead serious when I tell you why this is, and I know a LOT of people in the domestic violence industry, men and women, and I have known some of these people for decades – it is because the DV people are fixated on the patriarchal-oppression model. Women and gays are permitted protection because they are class oppressed by the patriarchy. I am dead serious – the people who lobby for and lead these program truly believe that. And that is why even though in the US we spend 3 billion dollars a year for domestice volence services – there are no services for men abused by women. Best – Fido

Response:

Too bad that those men would likely face ridicule, disbelief, or find themselves being blamed had they tried to go for help with one of the local  domestic violence organizations. Seems from some of those stories that a female who kills a man or a child, will "get off" with temporary insanity pleas.  Wonder if a man who throws a two-yr old from a moving car would get the same?

I do agree that, in our society, there is a tendency to think that when a guy goes something criminal, he’s evil or has a anti-social personality, but when a woman does it, it must be the result of some abuse or psychological-emotional imbalance for which treatment is required. Florida was one the first states to adopt a battered-spouse defense in murder cases, but I have yet to hear of it being successfully applied in defending a guy.  [Rog']

Response:

If you get your kicks by pushing and shoving your spouse occasionally, when she gets fed up and the cops are called, you’ll likely be arrested, do a 6-month batterers’ intervention program and pay about $1,000 in court costs and probation fees.  You might want to take that seriously.  [Roger] I defy you to show me where there is a batterer’s intervention program for women. I work with a men’s crisis hotline, and we would love to add one to our database of resources. But, it’s easier to laugh at battered men then it is to help them.

It is rare, but I have on occasion dealt with women charged with domestic violence on a guy — and its usually only because the guy ended up at the ER. There is a stigma attached to guys reporting batteries by women. Of course, violence by women is more commonly directed at other women.  One of my favorite stories is from the time that a woman asked me to defend her for a knock-down drag-out with her roommate.  They were both drunk and her roommate started it, so it was self-defense.  "How did she start it?" I asked.   "She bit my breast.  The bite marks are still visible.  Here, look!"  [R]

Response:

Too bad that those men would likely face ridicule, disbelief, or find themselves being blamed had they tried to go for help with one of the local domestic violence organizations.

Seems from some of those stories that a female who kills a man or a child, will "get off" with temporary insanity pleas.  Wonder if a man who throws a two-yr old from a moving car would get the same?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Occasional pushing and sho[v]ing are explained as serious physical abuse. If you get your kicks by pushing and shoving your spouse occasionally, when she gets fed up and the cops are called, you’ll likely be arrested, do a 6-month batterers’ intervention program and pay about $1,000 in court costs and probation fees.  You might want to take that seriously.  [Roger] If you are a man, that is. I defy you to show me where there is a batterer’s intervention program for women. I work with a men’s crisis hotline, and we would love to add one to our database of resources. But, it’s easier to laugh at battered men then it is to help them.

I’ve had three separate occasions where a female aquaintance came to me for help or emotional support regarding physical abuse.  I gave each one what they needed at the moment – cash, a place to stay for a couple days, someone to watch their kid, a hug and a listening ear.   No male acquaintance has ever approached me asking for help regarding physical abuse.  If one did, i’d offer the same to him. I admire what you’re doing, Fido.  Men should have just as many opportunities as women do to escape abuse.

Response:

Too bad that those men would likely face ridicule, disbelief, or find themselves being blamed had they tried to go for help with one of the local domestic violence organizations.

I really hope this will change.  NOBODY should be treated that way when they reach out for help. Personally, i’ve been researching some stuff regarding child abuse.  There are so many different causes that need attention, everybody needs to find the one where they can make the most difference, and go at it. Keep working at it.  I figure that if even one person can be helped, it makes it worthwhile to have spent the time and effort.

Response:

Dude, you’re funny.  Occasional pushing and shoving IS *physical abuse*.  Just like occasional clawing, scratching, & throwing objects at a guy.

It’s a troll. Don’t fall for it. — "Rudeness is the weak man’s imitation of strength"

Response:

… a troll. Don’t fall for it. — "Rudeness is the weak man’s imitation of strength"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Occasional pushing and sho[v]ing are explained as serious physical abuse. If you get your kicks by pushing and shoving your spouse occasionally, when she gets fed up and the cops are called, you’ll likely be arrested, do a 6-month batterers’ intervention program and pay about $1,000 in court costs and probation fees.  You might want to take that seriously.  [Roger] If you are a man, that is. I defy you to show me where there is a batterer’s intervention program for women. I work with a men’s crisis hotline, and we would love to add one to our database of resources. But, it’s easier to laugh at battered men then it is to help them. I’ve had three separate occasions where a female aquaintance came to me for help or emotional support regarding physical abuse.  I gave each one what they needed at the moment – cash, a place to stay for a couple days, someone to watch their kid, a hug and a listening ear.   No male acquaintance has ever approached me asking for help regarding physical abuse.  If one did, i’d offer the same to him. I admire what you’re doing, Fido.  Men should have just as many opportunities as women do to escape abuse.

Thanks. I don’t have the exact stats on hand – but the organization I work with received about 1500 calls in the last year or so. Often, when women are abusive to men, then children, too, may be in danger. Sometimes the man is willing to accept abuse heaped upon himself, but has no where to go to protect his children. Like some women, men often believe that they are trapped in these situations. And our organization is always short of resources to be able to point these men to. To give an idea – a typical "Family Crisis" organization (which usually will give services only to women) receive on average about $1,700 in government grants per client served. But there are NO funds available organizations that serve men in abusive situations – not a dime. We hear that "Men don’t need services," and that domestic violence is related to a male power imbalance. Anyone who thinks that is welcome to volunteer for our crisis line and can talk to those men directly. But there is a social blind spot toward issues of violent despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A quick scan of this week’s news provides plenty of examples: http://www.sltrib.com/2004/Apr/04172004/utah/157949.asp http://www.thetowntalk.com/update/1082127482.shtml http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20040416/lo_wplg/20981 95 http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/auto/epaper/editions/s aturday/martin_stlucie_04082afe145a608100fc.html http://breaking.examiner.ie/2004/04/17/story143279.html http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040417/ap_on_re_us/brf_ submerged_car_1 http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040415/APN… http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=ar ticle&sid=19227&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 (I don’t know if there are duplicates there, but those are just from a cursory search of the last week or so) Too bad that those men would likely face ridicule, disbelief, or find themselves being blamed had they tried to go for help with one of the local domestic violence organizations. Best – Fido

Response:

Occasional pushing and sho[v]ing are explained as serious physical abuse. If you get your kicks by pushing and shoving your spouse occasionally, when she gets fed up and the cops are called, you’ll likely be arrested, do a 6-month batterers’ intervention program and pay about $1,000 in court costs and probation fees.  You might want to take that seriously.  [Roger]

If you are a man, that is. I defy you to show me where there is a batterer’s intervention program for women. I work with a men’s crisis hotline, and we would love to add one to our database of resources. But, it’s easier to laugh at battered men then it is to help them. Best – Fido

Response:

Occasional pushing and showing are explained as serious physical abuse.

showing = shoving? And this ISN’T serious physical abuse?

Response:

Occasional pushing and showing are explained as serious physical abuse. showing = shoving? And this ISN’T serious physical abuse?

I’d say forget it, ML.   He, like a lot of guys, is obviously totally clueless about it.   It’s all been blended together in their limited brain.

Response:

Occasional pushing and sho[v]ing are explained as serious physical abuse.

If you get your kicks by pushing and shoving your spouse occasionally, when she gets fed up and the cops are called, you’ll likely be arrested, do a 6-month batterers’ intervention program and pay about $1,000 in court costs and probation fees.  You might want to take that seriously.  [Roger]

Response:

Occasional pushing and sho[v]ing are explained as serious physical abuse. If you get your kicks by pushing and shoving your spouse occasionally, when she gets fed up and the cops are called, you’ll likely be arrested, do a 6-month batterers’ intervention program and pay about $1,000 in court costs and probation fees.  You might want to take that seriously.  [Roger]

Aren’t you supposed to be saying ‘Begone, evil troll.’?

Response:

Rog’: If you get your kicks by pushing and shoving your spouse occasionally, when she gets fed up and the cops are called… Aren’t you supposed to be saying ‘Begone, evil troll.’?

I see Andre as more of a clod than as a troll.  His posts may be troll-like, but he’s been around long enuff — mostly trespassing from soc.[whiny-]men — that its painfully obvious that he actually holds the attitudes he expresses… better  just to <plonk him. [R]

Response:

I see Andre as more of a clod than as a troll.

Personally, I think he’d feel a lot better if he could just get laid. I guess that’s true for a lot of us, though. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

Dude, you’re funny.  Occasional pushing and shoving IS *physical abuse*.  Just like occasional clawing, scratching, & throwing objects at a guy.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Marital arguments are explained as serious verbal abuse. Occasional pushing and showing are explained as serious physical abuse. Decision-making is shown as emotional abuse. The staff and volunteers,

Response:

FW Dear Sir/Madam, I have been a volunteer worker at Bethany House of Northern Virginia, 5901 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, Virginia, a private non-profit so called battered women’s shelter. I wish to remain anonymous for fear of personal and professional reprisals by my co-workers and the Bethany House staff. In my experience working at the shelter I am appalled and outraged by what is really going on at Bethany House of Northern Virginia (BHNV). To put it bluntly, it is for most part nothing more than a "one stop divorce shop for emotional and bored housewives who want a change of life". It is also largely used as a free hostel for women with emotional problems if they are willing to hate their husbands enough and are willing to take out protective orders against their husbands. Women who follow BHNV’s agenda are guaranteed residency at the shelter for up to 7 months. All of this in the name of a Battered Women’s shelter is sickening to disgust. From my observations, the goal of Bethany House is to get bored and emotional housewives to leave their marital home after infuriating them with a heavy dose of husband bashing, anti-male talk, patriarchy, and negative motivation. This is carefully planned and executed by the Bethany House staff and volunteers. Simple tasks as cooking, cleaning, laundry, taking care of children are explained to the housewives as abusive and demeaning tasks forced upon them by their spouses. Marital arguments are explained as serious verbal abuse. Occasional pushing and showing are explained as serious physical abuse. Decision-making is shown as emotional abuse. The staff and volunteers, through a network of sources, identify emotional housewives. With a series of pep talks, tests and evaluations, BHNV staffs make the wives and husbands incompatible, infuriate the wife with propaganda, and then exploit the wife’s frustration and anger as retaliation against the husband. The wife is given verbal and written instructions on how to leave the house secretly for the BHNV shelter. Bethany House system resources are geared to get the father charged with an offence and to make the mother look like the victim and the children ending up as helpless pawns in the abuse game manipulated by BHNV. Women with almost no marital problems are declared abused and are coached by the staff to go to court and get a protective order against their husbands with the promise of long-term shelter, legal services, counseling at BHNV. BHNV also uses scare tactics to get women to file a protective order. This is a gross abuse of a system that was designed for real battered women. Most of the staff and volunteers at BHNV have a jaundiced view of marriage and men, and attach little importance to the role of fathers in children’s lives. A majority of these staff and volunteers are women who are themselves from broken marriages and failed relationships, enraged with a bottomless pit of anger at men. Women, staff and volunteers at the shelter use foul language and spend a lot of time father bashing, husband bashing and hold group sessions to initiate the same feelings to new residents. Bethany House is a terrible place, not the environment where children should be. Not even women. A lot of Bethany House activities are carefully doctored and monitored and have to remain behind a "veil of secrecy." The BHNV network with their legal services, sociologists, and psychiatrists practice a self-censorship. It’s just a lot of radical feminists making biased judgements against fathers, husbands, and families. BHNV has repeatedly lied to charities that they are a church and religious organization. Indeed they are located within the Culmore United Methodist Church complex. But all they do is rent space and have no connection with the Church. BHNV has misrepresented and repeatedly lied to the United Way of the National Capitol Area regarding BHNV’s position for several years. In their United Way of the National Capitol Area CVC Code 8046 Charity Application form 2002, which I was involved in, I and other volunteers were told to outright lie and make it as family oriented as possible. According to the wording in the charity form in verbatim, which I quote below. (a) "BHNV family assistance program for battered spouses and their children provides multiple interventions blended into a comprehensive family development/family strengthening plan." (b) "Outreach staff work with each family to examine and alter behaviors, and to enhance each victim’s capacity to exercise self-determination and autonomy." (c) "Once stabilized, victims implement customized family strengthening strategies, accessing services and advocating for clients to ensure realization of each individual’s" I can vouch for the fact that none of the above statements presented to United Way 2002 charity are anywhere near truth. Their so-called family assistance program: (a) excludes children, fathers, husbands and indeed family interests. And does exclude to a large part the self-determination and autonomy of the housewife they supposedly "rescue." It in fact represents BHNV’s interests almost exclusively to the fullest extent possible. (b) Outreach staff never work with families, neither do they make any attempt to alter behavior as they claim. They secretly meet with the wife and encourage her to pack up and leave with the children for the shelter and file a protective order against the father. This is almost always the rule – even if there was no abuse within the family. Outreach staff never assesses issues presented by the family. The father or any male member is never consulted in this case. Indeed the father is by default the abuser of the mother. (c) There is no family strengthening strategies for the victims as they claim. By this time the poor housewife is converted into a victim by BHNV with no recourse but to depend on BHNV for her financial stability, the children are alienated from their father by a protective order BHNV helped the housewife achieve. The father is sued for child and spousal support with the legal help of BHNV. Not only does BHNV impoverish a family by breaking them apart, but legally and morally commits child abuse by removing children from their home and putting them in a shelter. Away from their school, friends, and other familiar activities. I have spoken with several wives at BHNV who have deeply regretted having contacted BHNV and acting on BHNV’s advice. They have all been told to outright lie and fabricate half-truths to distort. They have all taken out protective orders against their husbands in "the heat of the moment" at BHNV’s suggestions and deeply regret destroying their marriage, family, husband and their children’s future and "burning their boat" at any reconciliation much to their dismay. I implore and beg your office to investigate and do something soon to stop this senseless break up of families and needless trauma to children. Please do something. The children of Fairfax County do not deserve this kind of cruelty, This is happening right under our very noses. Please do something now! Thank you for your time. -Anon — " I’m a man… But, I can change… If I have to… I guess. "                                     The Man Prayer, Red Green.

Response:

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