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Pearl Harbor – A Belated Review

Question:

What was the name of that carrier? I’d thought that the five Navy fleet carriers–Hornet, Enterprise, Wasp, Saratoga, Lexington–were all in the Pacific at the time, leaving only Langley in the Atlantic, and wasn’t that ship way too small to have been used as a launching platform for B-25s?

According to what I’ve read, the Hornet was the ship they used to launch the first B25’s off the coast of Virginia.  They then sailed through the Panama Canal, picked up the planes to be used in the raid in San Fransisco, then hooked up with the Pacific Fleet before heading to Japan. — Jim Fisher Cherokee 180 www.EAAChapter615.org (remove "X" to email)

Response:

Thank you. Another poster reminded me about Yorktown as well.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What was the name of that carrier? I’d thought that the five Navy fleet carriers–Hornet, Enterprise, Wasp, Saratoga, Lexington–were all in the Pacific at the time, leaving only Langley in the Atlantic, and wasn’t that ship way too small to have been used as a launching platform for B-25s? According to what I’ve read, the Hornet was the ship they used to launch the first B25’s off the coast of Virginia.  They then sailed through the Panama Canal, picked up the planes to be used in the raid in San Fransisco, then hooked up with the Pacific Fleet before heading to Japan. — Jim Fisher Cherokee 180 www.EAAChapter615.org (remove "X" to email)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As one who’s uncle was the senior officer aboard the U.S.S. Argonne on December 7, 1941, I attended the movie hoping to see a story that was at least somewhat historically accurate. It was so bad it was insulting to the memory of those who actually served.  Jimmy Doolittle was played poorly, (he was never assigned to a base in New York, among other things, he wasn’t some sort of a hot dog, he had a Ph.D. in aeronautics for crying out loud, yet he’d raced the very fastest airplanes in the world) the bomber pilots were already flying B-25s and had been for some time when they were trained for the raid, the broom handle bit was actually set up during training in Florida intentionally because they had removed guns to save weight, there were no U.S. Army pilots who went to the UK to fight for the RAF (all of the Americans who fought for the RAF went on their own and joined up, none had previous military experience).  The list of creative liberties is beyond belief.  (The problem is that there are people who believe the movie is historically accurate.) If you want a hokey, made up tearjerker B movie using "actors" that couldn’t find subtlty in a dictionary and that bears little relationship to reality, press on, but don’t insult those who were there by calling it _Pearl Harbor_.

Navy nurses giving Army pilots physicals, monitoring voice transmissions in Hawaii from the Doolittle raid, misspelling Mitchel Field, and many more. Even errors in simple physics.  Remember when our heroes were trying to rescue sailors from the overturned battleship after the attack?  They’re working well above the water level in the harbor, they had just cut through a small section of the remarkably thin hull.  A few sailors reached hands through the hole, they were grasped by the rescuers as water bubbled up through the hole, drowning the sailors. Why is the water rising inside the ship?

Response:

USS Langley (CV-1) was in the Java Sea working as a seaplane tender when Pearl Harbor occurred and she was sunk by the Japanese a couple days later.

USS Langley was redesignated AV-3 when she was converted to a seaplane tender in 1937.

Response:

Even errors in simple physics.  Remember when our heroes were trying to rescue sailors from the overturned battleship after the attack?  They’re working well above the water level in the harbor, they had just cut through a small section of the remarkably thin hull.  A few sailors reached hands through the hole, they were grasped by the rescuers as water bubbled up through the hole, drowning the sailors. Why is the water rising inside the ship?

Missed that one! Actually, I do vaguely remember feeling something was wrong with that scene, but it never hit me what it was until I read this post. Thanks. Now I’m tempted to rent it to see this scene again! — Alex Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Response:

Jim, Reread my post.  I did NOT say the B-25 pilots were already flying from carriers.  I said the pilots were already flying B-25s.  They were trained to fly from carriers.  No fighter pilots were suddenly switched to B-25s, as was done in the movie, implying that existing B-25 pilots were no good. Why in the world a movie takes pains to have accurate uniforms and airplanes and then is horribly inaccurate on the history is beyond me.  It couldn’t even let the viewer know that Japan had been at war for a number of years before it attacked the U.S.  It perpetuated the myth that WWII started with Pearl Harbor.  It was insulting to those who were there and will further serve to confuse a generation of movie goers as to what happened.  It doesn’t take anything to show that it was a horrible event, all war is horrible. What it did was promote a number of lies.  If that’s okay with the public, so be it.  I happen to prefer fiction to be labeled as such. Apparently the public can be bought off with special effects, poor acting and a romantic twist to a plot.  But the public has to have a happy ending so the movie can’t end with the events of Pearl Harbor, it has to continue far enough to where something good happens for the U.S.  Please. All the best, Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you want a hokey, made up tearjerker B movie using "actors" that couldn’t find subtlty in a dictionary and that bears little relationship to reality, press on, but don’t insult those who were there by calling it _Pearl Harbor_. I can dig your point Rick.  But on the other hand, this movie brought to life the events of that fateful day for a whole new generation of people who, until now, had no appreciation for the terror and mayhem that went on for those few hours.  There *was* enough historical accuracy to make the story at least believeable. To counter your statement that B25’s had already been flying from carriers long before they stormed Tokyo, well, that simply is not true.  The first time B25’s were flown from a carrier was off the coast of Virginia in February of ‘42 and was done for the sole purpose of practicing for the raid of Tokyo.

Response:

Quite a bit of that "flying action" was faked.

(looking for a way to spell a sudden intake of air into the lungs in mock surprise!)  ;) — Jim Fisher Cherokee 180 www.EAAChapter615.org (Remove "X" to email)

Response:

Quite a bit of that "flying action" was faked. The aircraft went through many of the manoevers well away from the ground, and the images were dubbed in, over, and through the ground based scenery & buildings.

I read an article after the film came out that opined that this movie will probably be the last war flick to have _any_ real flying in it. They can do a better job with computers, and it’s cheaper. If they’d done "A Bridge Too Far" that way, they could have had the gliders towed by Stirling bombers (as they were in the real operation) instead of collecting Gooney birds form all over. George Patterson,  N3162Q.

Response:

If you want a hokey, made up tearjerker B movie using "actors" that couldn’t find subtlty in a dictionary and that bears little relationship to reality, press on, but don’t insult those who were there by calling it _Pearl Harbor_.

And just one more comment, Rick.  The DVD had some bonus material on it about the making of Pearl Harbor.  The director, Michael Bay, consulted a number of survivors who had a story to tell about, for example, how their friends died.  Mr. Bay brought to life many of those stories in the movie. To say that the telling of those stories was an "insult" to the survivors is simply untrue. And my apologies about the B25 statement in a previous post.  I misread your post and it was all my fault.  Oops! — Jim Fisher Cherokee 180 www.EAAChapter615.org (remove "X" to email)

Response:

The lack of historical accuracy has bugged me as well in this movie. The real movie to see (as far as historical accuracy goes) is "Tora, Tora, Tora". I can’t recomend this movie enough!

I was fortunate to be able to watch this movie on a "Flix" channel couple of weeks ago before I saw "Pearl."  I was a ten year old kid last time I saw it in 1972.  Even for a 30 year old movie, "Tora" is still a fantastic movie. It hasn’t lost it’s shine or appeal even after all these years. Something stuck after I saw "Pearl," though.  In "Tora," the admiral (Yamamoto [sp?]), at the end of the movie, stated, "I fear all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant and have instilled in him a terrible resolve"–a quote that I remembered since the first time I saw "Tora."  In "Pearl" the same admiral stated simply (paraphrased) "I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant."  The "Tora" version was much more-better. Anyway the movies parallel each other to a very great extent so if you’re gonna say "Pearl" was inaccurate, you have to lay that on "Tora," too. I’d dare say that "Pearl Harbor" was simply a re-make of that movie in much the same way that "Independence Day" was "simply" a remake of "War of the Worlds." All fantastic movies all by themselves. — Jim Fisher Cherokee 180 www.EAAChapter615.org (remove "X" to email)

Response:

Get a poster of the cute chick in a swimsuit, hang it on the wall next to the TV and then watch Tora Tora Tora (see, you can have your cake and eat it too….). I bought the "new" Pearl Harbor movie (VHS tapes) on Dec. 7th last year (it was on sale at the check-out stand at the grocery store… couldn’t help myself).  Another $15 bucks wasted on junk…. Bela P. Havasreti – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yeah, but Tora Tora Tora didn’t have a "cute lead chick in a swimsuit" scene (tongue in cheek). The lack of historical accuracy has bugged me as well in this movie. The real movie to see (as far as historical accuracy goes) is "Tora, Tora, Tora". I can’t recomend this movie enough! Eric Paslick PP-ASEL Mechanic-Powerplant

Response:

USS Ranger (CV-4) was in the Atlantic. She was never considered fast enough (top speed 21 knots) for Pacific operations. USS Wasp (CV-7) & USS Hornet (CV-8) were also in the Atlantic. Hornet transferred to the Pacific for the Doolittle operation, and stayed there until she was sunk. Wasp transferred later in the summer after the Battle of Midway. I believe, but I don’t remember for sure, that the USS Yorktown (CV-5) was still in the Atlantic when Pearl Harbor went down, but transferred shortly afterwards. USS Langley (CV-1) was in the Java Sea working as a seaplane tender when Pearl Harbor occurred and she was sunk by the Japanese a couple days later. USS Saratoga (CV-3) was in San Diego while USS Enterprise (CV-6) & USS Lexington (CV-2) were enroute to Pearl Harbor (Enterprise reached Pearl early evening on the 7th). Eric Paslick PP-ASEL Mechanic-Powerplant —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To counter your statement that B25’s had already been flying from carriers long before they stormed Tokyo, well, that simply is not true.  The first time B25’s were flown from a carrier was off the coast of Virginia in February of ‘42 and was done for the sole purpose of practicing for the raid of Tokyo. What was the name of that carrier? I’d thought that the five Navy fleet carriers–Hornet, Enterprise, Wasp, Saratoga, Lexington–were all in the Pacific at the time, leaving only Langley in the Atlantic, and wasn’t that ship way too small to have been used as a launching platform for B-25s?

Response:

Quite a bit of that "flying action" was faked. The aircraft went through many of the manoevers well away from the ground, and the images were dubbed in, over, and through the ground based scenery & buildings.  very few, if any, if the Japanese planes flew knife-edge turns less than 20 feet off the ground between the trees and buildings at Hickam.  And neither did the two US planes featured in the scene.

So? Digital animation is just as exciting to watch as the "real thing" nowadays. And a helluva lot safer, for the pilots and the precious old warbirds.  (I know, most of the Zeros were fake, too… But some were real, and it would be a crime to lose them in "action".) And, to be honest, after watching "The Making of Pearl Harbor" (a spiff that comes with the DVD)  I was amazed to see how much of the flying was REAL. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

Yeah, but Tora Tora Tora didn’t have a "cute lead chick in a swimsuit" scene (tongue in cheek). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The lack of historical accuracy has bugged me as well in this movie. The real movie to see (as far as historical accuracy goes) is "Tora, Tora, Tora". I can’t recomend this movie enough! Eric Paslick PP-ASEL Mechanic-Powerplant

Response:

To counter your statement that B25’s had already been flying from carriers long before they stormed Tokyo, well, that simply is not true.  The first time B25’s were flown from a carrier was off the coast of Virginia in February of ‘42 and was done for the sole purpose of practicing for the raid of Tokyo.

What was the name of that carrier? I’d thought that the five Navy fleet carriers–Hornet, Enterprise, Wasp, Saratoga, Lexington–were all in the Pacific at the time, leaving only Langley in the Atlantic, and wasn’t that ship way too small to have been used as a launching platform for B-25s?

Response:

Sad part is, they could have made a fairly  accurate movie w/o the immature crap and it would have become a classic!  Maybe someday, someone will …. — Ralph Griffith

Jim, As one who’s uncle was the senior officer aboard the U.S.S. Argonne on December 7, 1941, I attended the movie hoping to see a story that was at least somewhat historically accurate. It was so bad it was insulting to the memory of those who actually served.  Jimmy Doolittle was played poorly, (he was never assigned to a base in New York, among other things, he wasn’t some sort of a hot dog, he had a Ph.D. in aeronautics for crying out loud, yet he’d raced the very fastest airplanes in the world) the bomber pilots were already flying B-25s and had been for some time when they were trained for the raid, the broom handle bit was actually set up during training in Florida intentionally because they had removed guns to save weight, there were no U.S. Army pilots who went to the UK to fight for the RAF (all of the Americans who fought for the RAF went on their own and joined up, none had previous military experience).  The list of creative liberties is beyond belief.  (The problem is that there are people who believe the movie is historically accurate.) If you want a hokey, made up tearjerker B movie using "actors" that couldn’t find subtlty in a dictionary and that bears little relationship to reality, press on, but don’t insult those who were there by calling it _Pearl Harbor_. All the best, Rick

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ya’ know what?  I’ve decided that most of you folks don’t know what the hell you are talking about.  That’s what. I rented Pearl Harbor over the weekend.  I wasn’t in too much of a hurry to watch the stupid movie because the majority of the comments about it back during the summer, in this very newsgroup, were pretty negative. "Fighting part is good but the rest of it sucks" y’all said. Well, it was raining here today so the wife and I popped the DVD in and settled down for a viewing of this silly movie in my home "thea-tah." My review?  Well, this is pretty hard for a low-wing type of guy to admit but I slung snot and cried my ass off for damn near three hours!  That’s right, I have no ass now.  Neither does the wife.  We took turns getting up to get more tissue.  Best damn movie I’ve ever seen.  I g-g-get all teared up j-j-just typing about it.  I’m terribly sorry I missed the big screen viewing thanks to all the movie-critic-wannabes here (‘cept for you, Jay–I should have listened to you, buddy). Remember Pearl Harbor!  Rent the DVD!

Response:

The lack of historical accuracy has bugged me as well in this movie. The real movie to see (as far as historical accuracy goes) is "Tora, Tora, Tora". I can’t recomend this movie enough! Eric Paslick PP-ASEL Mechanic-Powerplant —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you want a hokey, made up tearjerker B movie using "actors" that couldn’t find subtlty in a dictionary and that bears little relationship to reality, press on, but don’t insult those who were there by calling it _Pearl Harbor_. I can dig your point Rick.  But on the other hand, this movie brought to life the events of that fateful day for a whole new generation of people who, until now, had no appreciation for the terror and mayhem that went on for those few hours.  There *was* enough historical accuracy to make the story at least believeable. To counter your statement that B25’s had already been flying from carriers long before they stormed Tokyo, well, that simply is not true.  The first time B25’s were flown from a carrier was off the coast of Virginia in February of ‘42 and was done for the sole purpose of practicing for the raid of Tokyo. — Jim Fisher Cherokee 180 www.EAAChapter615.org (remove "X" to email)

Response:

If you want a hokey, made up tearjerker B movie using "actors" that couldn’t find subtlty in a dictionary and that bears little relationship to reality, press on, but don’t insult those who were there by calling it _Pearl Harbor_. To counter your statement that B25’s had already been flying from carriers long before they stormed Tokyo, well, that simply is not true.  The first time B25’s were flown from a carrier was off the coast of Virginia in February of ‘42 and was done for the sole purpose of practicing for the raid of Tokyo.

 Jim, you might want to reread Ricks post. I don’t think he was saying anything about how long they had been flying off of carriers, only that the crews were experienced bomber crews, not converted fighter crews. — Alex Make the obvious change in the return address to reply by email.

Response:

Yeah, decent movie. One of my favorite scenes was at the beach where you get a great shot of the female lead in a swimsuit. Hey, my tastes are simple ! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Remember Pearl Harbor!  Rent the DVD! To heck with that.  BUY the DVD! Agree 100%. While it’s got some pretty stupid story lines (Does anyone REALLY think that one pilot could participate in the Battle of Britain, Pearl Harbor, AND Doolittle’s Raid?   Does anyone REALLY believe that a hot-shot fighter pilot would be "volunteered" to fly a BOMBER?   Off an aircraft carrier?) — the flying action scenes are the best ever filmed. We bought the DVD (and a 51" TV — GREAT for this movie) for Xmas, and it’s a gas — you can skip right over all that mushy stuff, and jump directly into the mayhem!

Response:

Jim, As one who’s uncle was the senior officer aboard the U.S.S. Argonne on December 7, 1941, I attended the movie hoping to see a story that was at least somewhat historically accurate. It was so bad it was insulting to the memory of those who actually served.  Jimmy Doolittle was played poorly, (he was never assigned to a base in New York, among other things, he wasn’t some sort of a hot dog, he had a Ph.D. in aeronautics for crying out loud, yet he’d raced the very fastest airplanes in the world) the bomber pilots were already flying B-25s and had been for some time when they were trained for the raid, the broom handle bit was actually set up during training in Florida intentionally because they had removed guns to save weight, there were no U.S. Army pilots who went to the UK to fight for the RAF (all of the Americans who fought for the RAF went on their own and joined up, none had previous military experience).  The list of creative liberties is beyond belief.  (The problem is that there are people who believe the movie is historically accurate.) If you want a hokey, made up tearjerker B movie using "actors" that couldn’t find subtlty in a dictionary and that bears little relationship to reality, press on, but don’t insult those who were there by calling it _Pearl Harbor_. All the best, Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ya’ know what?  I’ve decided that most of you folks don’t know what the hell you are talking about.  That’s what. I rented Pearl Harbor over the weekend.  I wasn’t in too much of a hurry to watch the stupid movie because the majority of the comments about it back during the summer, in this very newsgroup, were pretty negative.  "Fighting part is good but the rest of it sucks" y’all said. Well, it was raining here today so the wife and I popped the DVD in and settled down for a viewing of this silly movie in my home "thea-tah." My review?  Well, this is pretty hard for a low-wing type of guy to admit but I slung snot and cried my ass off for damn near three hours!  That’s right, I have no ass now.  Neither does the wife.  We took turns getting up to get more tissue.  Best damn movie I’ve ever seen.  I g-g-get all teared up j-j-just typing about it.  I’m terribly sorry I missed the big screen viewing thanks to all the movie-critic-wannabes here (‘cept for you, Jay–I should have listened to you, buddy). Remember Pearl Harbor!  Rent the DVD!

Response:

If you want a hokey, made up tearjerker B movie using "actors" that couldn’t find subtlty in a dictionary and that bears little relationship to reality, press on, but don’t insult those who were there by calling it _Pearl Harbor_.

I can dig your point Rick.  But on the other hand, this movie brought to life the events of that fateful day for a whole new generation of people who, until now, had no appreciation for the terror and mayhem that went on for those few hours.  There *was* enough historical accuracy to make the story at least believeable. To counter your statement that B25’s had already been flying from carriers long before they stormed Tokyo, well, that simply is not true.  The first time B25’s were flown from a carrier was off the coast of Virginia in February of ‘42 and was done for the sole purpose of practicing for the raid of Tokyo. — Jim Fisher Cherokee 180 www.EAAChapter615.org (remove "X" to email)

Response:

Ya’ know what?  I’ve decided that most of you folks don’t know what the hell you are talking about.  That’s what. I rented Pearl Harbor over the weekend.  I wasn’t in too much of a hurry to watch the stupid movie because the majority of the comments about it back during the summer, in this very newsgroup, were pretty negative.  "Fighting part is good but the rest of it sucks" y’all said. Well, it was raining here today so the wife and I popped the DVD in and settled down for a viewing of this silly movie in my home "thea-tah." My review?  Well, this is pretty hard for a low-wing type of guy to admit but I slung snot and cried my ass off for damn near three hours!  That’s right, I have no ass now.  Neither does the wife.  We took turns getting up to get more tissue.  Best damn movie I’ve ever seen.  I g-g-get all teared up j-j-just typing about it.  I’m terribly sorry I missed the big screen viewing thanks to all the movie-critic-wannabes here (‘cept for you, Jay–I should have listened to you, buddy). Remember Pearl Harbor!  Rent the DVD! — Jim Fisher Cherokee 180 www.EAAChapter615.org (remove "X" to email)

Response:

Remember Pearl Harbor!  Rent the DVD!

To heck with that.  BUY the DVD! That way (with careful use of bookmarks) you can create two complete movies out of it, which is what I’ve pretty much done.  A tear jerker one for me and the wife and death and destruction one for me and my buddies. Besides the bonus material on the DVD is pretty much worth the purchase price. — Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B Hood River, OR

Response:

Remember Pearl Harbor!  Rent the DVD! To heck with that.  BUY the DVD!

Agree 100%. While it’s got some pretty stupid story lines (Does anyone REALLY think that one pilot could participate in the Battle of Britain, Pearl Harbor, AND Doolittle’s Raid?   Does anyone REALLY believe that a hot-shot fighter pilot would be "volunteered" to fly a BOMBER?   Off an aircraft carrier?) — the flying action scenes are the best ever filmed. We bought the DVD (and a 51" TV — GREAT for this movie) for Xmas, and it’s a gas — you can skip right over all that mushy stuff, and jump directly into the mayhem! — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

Remember Pearl Harbor!  Rent the DVD! To heck with that.  BUY the DVD! Agree 100%. While it’s got some pretty stupid story lines (Does anyone REALLY think that one pilot could participate in the Battle of Britain, Pearl Harbor, AND Doolittle’s Raid?   Does anyone REALLY believe that a hot-shot fighter pilot would be "volunteered" to fly a BOMBER?   Off an aircraft carrier?) — the flying action scenes are the best ever filmed.

Quite a bit of that "flying action" was faked. The aircraft went through many of the manoevers well away from the ground, and the images were dubbed in, over, and through the ground based scenery & buildings.  very few, if any, if the Japanese planes flew knife-edge turns less than 20 feet off the ground between the trees and buildings at Hickam.  And neither did the two US planes featured in the scene. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We bought the DVD (and a 51" TV — GREAT for this movie) for Xmas, and it’s a gas — you can skip right over all that mushy stuff, and jump directly into the mayhem!

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