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Can a noncurrent pilot log PIC time as an instrument safety pilot??

Question:

Subject says it all. I’m getting back into flying after almost a 10 year hiatus.  It’s going to take some real effort to pass a BFR at this point.  I wonder if I can get some useful insight/exposure/experience as a safety pilot for a hooded IFR student.  I want to use every kind of learning opportunity available (read: if someone else is paying, I want to do it!).  I am also considering purchasing a PA-28 sometime in the near future, so I am motivated to increase my logged time to reduce insurance costs.  I also have aspirations for the IFR rating after I feel more comfortable as a VFR pilot. BTW, this would be at a DC area airport (HEF or otherwise) sometime after July. Cheers!  Brandon

Response:

Oddly, this was a question on my CFI check ride for single-engine add-on. FAR 61.56 (c): …."no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which the person acts as pilot in command, that person has — (1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor; and (2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review." The idea is that the safety pilot should be competent to fly the plane in the event of trouble. So until you pass your BFR, you are out of luck. Bet you are surprised, though, by how quickly you pick it up again. Section 61.57 also comes into play: you cannot act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers unless you have had three takeoffs and landings within the last 90 days. The pilot you are acting as safety pilot for is not a passenger, but anyone else going along for the ride is.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Subject says it all. I’m getting back into flying after almost a 10 year hiatus.  It’s going to take some real effort to pass a BFR at this point.  I wonder if I can get some useful insight/exposure/experience as a safety pilot for a hooded IFR student.  I want to use every kind of learning opportunity available (read: if someone else is paying, I want to do it!).  I am also considering purchasing a PA-28 sometime in the near future, so I am motivated to increase my logged time to reduce insurance costs.  I also have aspirations for the IFR rating after I feel more comfortable as a VFR pilot. BTW, this would be at a DC area airport (HEF or otherwise) sometime after July. Cheers!  Brandon

Response:

Thanks for the help. I understand I can only log dual with a CFI until I pass the BFR, after which I’m fair game to be a safety pilot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oddly, this was a question on my CFI check ride for single-engine add-on. FAR 61.56 (c): …."no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which the person acts as pilot in command, that person has — (1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor; and (2) A logbook endorsed from an authorized instructor who gave the review certifying that the person has satisfactorily completed the review." The idea is that the safety pilot should be competent to fly the plane in the event of trouble. So until you pass your BFR, you are out of luck. Bet you are surprised, though, by how quickly you pick it up again. Section 61.57 also comes into play: you cannot act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers unless you have had three takeoffs and landings within the last 90 days. The pilot you are acting as safety pilot for is not a passenger, but anyone else going along for the ride is. Subject says it all. I’m getting back into flying after almost a 10 year hiatus.  It’s going to take some real effort to pass a BFR at this point.  I wonder if I can get some useful insight/exposure/experience as a safety pilot for a hooded IFR student.  I want to use every kind of learning opportunity available (read: if someone else is paying, I want to do it!).  I am also considering purchasing a PA-28 sometime in the near future, so I am motivated to increase my logged time to reduce insurance costs.  I also have aspirations for the IFR rating after I feel more comfortable as a VFR pilot. BTW, this would be at a DC area airport (HEF or otherwise) sometime after July. Cheers!  Brandon

Response:

I’d ask again, though.  Do you understand Lynch’s answer Rick?

It is confusing in my opinion. I think I understand it, and I think I understand what he told me, in person, the day before yesterday when I visited him. He’s going to revisit the issue and try to get something in Change 15 to the FAQs. Best Rick Cremer

| | can a sole manipulator of a high performance aircraft log PIC time (not act | as PIC) if he does not have a high perf signoff.  Lynch | said no, he can’t log the time.  < | | Based on my letter (and personal visit) to Mr. Lynch that answer was changed | in a subsequent FAQ. The sole manipulator of the controls on a 61.31 airplane | may, without an endorsement,  log PIC time if rated in category and class. | See FAQ #288 for the correct guidance. | | I know.  Perhaps I didn’t make it clear that I knew that | answer had been changed.  I don’t mean to attacck the FAQ or | Mr. Lynch.  I truly think it is an excellent aid to | understanding the FAR’s.  Too often those in charge of | enforcing regulations are afraid to tell you what they think | they mean for fear of being wrong.  They’d rather wait for a | situation, read the rules and only *then* tell you what they | think you should have known they meant. :-) | | I’d ask again, though.  Do you understand Lynch’s answer | Rick?  I couldn’t even tell for sure if Lynch thought there | were any passengers on board when you have a safety pilot. | | | | Todd Pattist

Response:

can a sole manipulator of a high performance aircraft log PIC time (not act

as PIC) if he does not have a high perf signoff.  Lynch said no, he can’t log the time.  < Based on my letter (and personal visit) to Mr. Lynch that answer was changed in a subsequent FAQ. The sole manipulator of the controls on a 61.31 airplane may, without an endorsement,  log PIC time if rated in category and class. See FAQ #288 for the correct guidance. — Best Regards Rick Cremer FAA Aviation Safety Inspector (Ops & Aws) ATP DC-9,MD-80/90 Flight Instructor Ground Instructor A&P Mechanic Aircraft Dispatcher Air Traffic Controller

| | He also says that if the flight is done under IFR (in VMC we assume) | that "one of the pilots" must be instrument rated and the legal PIC | must be instrument current. I believe this is wrong. In fact its | the legal PIC (not necessarily the flying pilot) that must be | both instrument rated and instrument current when operating | on an IFR flight plan (or in IMC in class G). | | I didn’t see that one, but 2 years ago I read Mr. Lynch’s | FAQ and found his answer to this question – can a sole | manipulator of a high performance aircraft log PIC time (not | act as PIC) if he does not have a high perf signoff.  Lynch | said no, he can’t log the time.  This was wrong, clearly | wrong to me, and it’s been wrong for years.  It’s one of | those basic FAR gotchas that I couldn’t believe the | "official" FAQ could be so wrong.  Someone else wrote the | FAA’s Chief Counsel,they confirmed this was wrong, and Mr. | Lynch changed his answer. | |  I’ve got two more where I think Mr. Lynch has interpreted | the "spirit" of the FAR’s rather than the letter, so that | they mean what he thinks they should mean, rather than what | they say.  His explanation on these two is just about as bad | as his reasoning on this one.  In these two cases, I agree | with him that they *should* mean what he says they mean, but | I don’t agree that’s what they actually say. | | Consequently,. I take what is in that FAQ with a grain of | salt.  You can rely on written interpretations of the FAR’s | by the FAA’s Chief Counsel.  You can’t really rely on | Lynch’s comments, despite the fact that he was principally | involved in the rewrite.  (In light of the really basic | interpretation error above, I find it kind of scary that he | did the last Part 61 rewrite.  It may be that he was trying | to assert the power of his branch of the FAA to interpret | the FAR’s) | | Todd Pattist

Response:

He also says that if the flight is done under IFR (in VMC we assume) that "one of the pilots" must be instrument rated and the legal PIC must be instrument current. I believe this is wrong. In fact its the legal PIC (not necessarily the flying pilot) that must be both instrument rated and instrument current when operating on an IFR flight plan (or in IMC in class G). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rick, Do you understand Answer 2 below?  I don’t.  It seems to agree that there are no passengers on this flight.  That makes a kind of sense, since the safety pilot is a required crewmember, so I cn believe he’s not a "passenger."  But if there are no passengers, then why does anyone have to be

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