Act Acting » Child Actors » A Feminist Lie Exposed
A Feminist Lie Exposed
Question:
Gina R12 wrote: > Men and women are equal….but someone has to > be in charge to determine the final word….and I believe it should be the man. > In that regard….the man is superior.
I must simply say that I am in total disagreement. Hugs, Jae — "Any connection between your reality and mine…. Is purely coincidental"
Response:
Dear Awen…. I know your response was to Mike….but I felt compelled to let you know that I read your response….and it does contain some valid points….but I respectfully have to disagree with you on some of them. Regardless of what the feminist movement in and of itself says….it does result in women competing with men….some with that anger and bitterness and some without. I "know" that I can do anything a man can do….but why would I want to ?! It is my opinion that those women that feel the need to "prove" their worth is equal to any man are those that suffer from insecurity to a certain degree. I’m living proof that a woman can enter the man’s world and make a decent living. I did it because I "had" to, though, not because I wanted to. Also….a child would not have to be sexually active to be rendered frigid by age 5. After all, a child’s personality for life is formed between ages 3 and 5, and only a conscious effort to change that personality can make a difference. It is common knowledge that a female child’s relationship with her Dad does indeed have an immense impact on her attitude towards men in general. I know this is true, for I have spent years making a conscious effort to change the damage done. I hope that you, too, have kept an open mind. We have different ideas about different things and I just simply cannot see wonderful benefits that feminism has supposedly reaped for women. Men and women are equal….but someone has to be in charge to determine the final word….and I believe it should be the man. In that regard….the man is superior. Now obviously, it goes without saying, that a man who beats and berates his wife is "not" the kind of man I’m talking about. No woman has to put up with being treated any way other than with utmost respect. I guess what I’m trying to say is that my thoughts and beliefs are based on the "ideal" situation….which doesn’t come along very often. Hugs and Smiles, Gina "Sometimes we live no particular way but our own…..And sometimes we visit your country and live in your home…..Sometimes we ride on your horses, sometimes we walk alone…..Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own…." — Grateful Dead
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gina R12 wrote: > Dear Awen…. I know your response was to Mike….but I felt compelled to let > you know that I read your response….and it does contain some valid > points….but I respectfully have to disagree with you on some of them. > Regardless of what the feminist movement in and of itself says….it does > result in women competing with men….some with that anger and bitterness and > some without. I "know" that I can do anything a man can do….but why would I > want to ?! > It is my opinion that those women that feel the need to "prove" > their worth is equal to any man are those that suffer from insecurity to a > certain degree. I’m living proof that a woman can enter the man’s world and > make a decent living. I did it because I "had" to, though, not because I > wanted to. > Also….a child would not have to be sexually active to be rendered frigid by > age 5. After all, a child’s personality for life is formed between ages 3 and > 5, and only a conscious effort to change that personality can make a > difference.
True, Gina. But "personality" and "sexual response" are two very diferent things, and are not necessarily connected. Frigidity is defined as the inability for a female to attain sexual arousal or satisfaction. It has little or nothing to do with personality. > It is common knowledge that a female child’s relationship with her > Dad does indeed have an immense impact on her attitude towards men in general. > I know this is true, for I have spent years making a conscious effort to change > the damage done.
True again. A girl’s relationship with her father is critical to her development. This has much more to do with her father’s attitude toward women then it has to do with her mother’s attitude toward men, however. > I hope that you, too, have kept an open mind.
I do have an open mind, Gina. But to ask me to accept sexist dogma is like asking a black person to accept racist dogma: sorry, I think it’s hogwash. > We have different ideas about > different things and I just simply cannot see wonderful benefits that feminism > has supposedly reaped for women. Men and women are equal….but someone has to > be in charge to determine the final word….and I believe it should be the man. > In that regard….the man is superior. Now obviously, it goes without saying, > that a man who beats and berates his wife is "not" the kind of man I’m talking > about. No woman has to put up with being treated any way other than with > utmost respect.
How can you be respected if you’re inferior? > I guess what I’m trying to say is that my thoughts and beliefs > are based on the "ideal" situation….which doesn’t come along very often.
I respect your right to believe what you want to believe, Gina. I just can not fathom how you can call such a belief system "ideal". I do not go around "comparing" myself to men. Men and women are very different in many ways, and very similar in many ways. We all bring different gifts to the table. My husband and I discuss our differences. We have no need to have one person have the "final word". We are both adults: we negotiate and compromise. I am sure we will not come to any resolution, Gina, as our opinions differ so greatly. I guess we must agree to disagree on this topic. Regards, Awen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hugs and Smiles, > Gina > "Sometimes we live no particular way but our own…..And sometimes we visit > your country and live in your home…..Sometimes we ride on your horses, > sometimes we walk alone…..Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of > our own…." > — Grateful Dead
Response:
Dear Awen, I am not going to mix in this thread, so I didn’t edit your original text. I do have an other question. Will you please switch off the HTML mode. If you look at the size (in kb) of your message, it’s four-times larger than Gina’s. As I have to pay phone costs by the minute, and some folks must pay the provider by the minute, every minute less is welcome. Thank you, Frans
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We certainly are in disagreement on many points. You have the right to try >to >attain what you consider a "good" life. What may seem good to you, does not >seem >so to me. I’ve had it both ways. I like having the choice. I believe my >place is >where I wish to be. I believe that I am responsible for the choices I make >in my >life. I do not place the blame on the feminist movement or on men or on >other >women. I do not believe any man superior to me except in physical strength. >Either men or other women may be superior to me in certain qualities or >traits, but >I do not render a person superior to me based on gender, race or religion. >It is >true that women have lost certain protections, but they have also gained the >right >to be judged on their own credit basis, to purchase homes and cars that they >were >not once allowed to do without having husbands or fathers co-sign. We have >been >able to work in fields previously close to us because of our gender. Our >ability >to do the job was not taken into consideration. We were bared because we >were >women. Our wages have increased so that we no longer have to work two jobs >to >support Children whose fathers do not wish to contribute to the support of. >There >are pros and cons to everything. I will keep my freedom to make my own >choices >above all. The femininist movement did not make men who wished to throw >their >wives and Children out of their lives any more than it made women who wished >to >throw their husbands and Children out of their lives. There have always been >these >men and women. Who made them before the feminist movement? The feminist >movement >has been a convenient scapegoat, in my opinion, for people who wish to place >blame >for things they disagree with. I find it amusing at the moment, that I am >put in a >position where I am defending a movement that I refused to be a part of. I >fought >alone for the things I wished to have, but I do not deny that those women who >fought together for the rights of all women helped me in my own fight. They >helped >to give us what we did not have before. Choice. > I fought for the right to be judged on my credit instead of the credit of >an >ex-husband. I fought for higher wages to support my Children when their >biological >parent abondened them. I know what liberation means. I know what it means >to be >dependent on a male and I know what it means not to have to be dependent on a >male. I will take a partnership anyday over "being taken care of". BTW, no >matter >how you regard Pat Robertson, it remains my opinion that the statement I >quoted by >him is still bullshit. <smile> Hugs, Jae
Dear Jae… Ouch !! Did ya have to punch so hard ?!! <laugh> Ah….yes we are most definitely on opposite sides in our thoughts and beliefs in this regard…..but then, the world would be a pretty dull place if we all thought alike, wouldn’t it ? I guess I’m just from the old school….and you can take the girl out of the old school, but you can’t take the old school out of the girl. <smile> Hugs and Smiles, Gina "She falls apart, no one there… Hold her hand, it seems to disappear… Falls apart, might as well… Day is long and nothing is wasted…" — Sugar Ray
Response:
Mike, I just saw this post tonight. I really wanted to respond, even though I’m fairly certain we will disagree nonetheless. Hope you will keep an open mind, though. Mike Brady wrote: > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:44:35 -0800, "Solo" <sm_pe…@yahoo.com> wrote: > >Every time I read here, I am surprised at the tenderness and vulnerability > >of men…somehow I got it in my head you were all ruthless, cold Datas just > >pretending to be charmers.:-) It just never would even have occurred to me > >that a man would not go to see this film because of fear of emotional > >pain…at the loss of that in his life. > This reminds me of the following passage: > The feminist movement tells women, "You can compete with men because > you are the superior sex."
No, the feminist movement tells women "You can compete with men because you are their equals." > Clinical studies show that a female child reared in the home of a dominant, > masculine mother will, because of the attitudes toward men instilled in her > mind and heart, be rendered frigid by the age of five.
Two things here: first of all, what does it mean for a woman to be "dominant" or "masculine"? Dr. Kennedy uses these words so lightly, and assumes his meaning is clear, but is it? Does he mean a strong, independent woman, or is he refering to a bitter, angry, dysfunctional woman? The two are not synonomous, and it’s quite possible for a woman to be the former without becoming the latter. Secondly, how can you call a five-year-old "frigid"? Five year old girls should not be sexually active, obviously, and if they are, I would think they would be frigid, since they are being assaulted! I guess Dr. Kennedy skipped the class on childhood sexual development. > Many girls are taught > that males are basically the enemy who seek to subjugate and dominate > females. For this reason men must be competed with and regarded as > animalistic beasts who take advantage of women for their own lustful > pleasure. > A woman who enters into competitiveness with her mate begins to view him as a threat. When this happens, she cannot respond to him sexually.
What planet does this guy live on? Girls and women are subjugated, dominated, sexually molested, and raped by men, every single day in this society. This is not something "girls are taught": this is a reality that girls learn by the time they reach puberty just by observing the world around them: * Four women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends every day in the US * Conservative estimates indicate that between two and four million women are battered by husbands or boyfriends each year * Every year in the US, approximately 132,000 women report that they have been raped. It is estimated that two to six times that number are raped, but do not report it due to social ostracism * Men are battered by women as well, but women are ten times more likely to be abused by an intimate than a man is —Source: "Violence Against Women: A National Crime Victim Survey Report", US Department of Justice, Washington, DC, January 1994 Furthermore: * White women still only earn $ .74 for every $1.00 a man earns * African American women earn $ .67 for every $1.00 a man earns and yet: * Two out of five women in the paid workforce are the sole providers for their families. —Source The US Census Bureau "No wonder so many women today grow up with feelings of rejection, anger, guilt, and envy toward their brothers, fathers, and mates." > Mike, esentially, all I can say is that the backlash against feminism is no diferent than the backlash against civil > rights. This country is dominated by white men. There are a disproportionate number of white men in Congress, in the Senate, on the Supreme Court, > and as the heads of all the major corporations and media in this nation. That means that African Americans, Asians, Native Americans, Hispanics, > all women, and all other minorites are underrepresented in every arena of power in the country. > The women’s movement, along with the equal rights movement, has attempted to obtain equality for the oppressed groups > mentioned above. What do the powers that be do when their power is threatened? They attempt to hold onto that power at all costs, by any means > necessary. This means by waging distortion campaigns in the media like the one you sited above. > Imagine blaming the African Americans in Alabama in the Sixties for the riots and lynchings that took place. That sounds > ludicrous, doesn’t it? It was the whites who did not want to let go of their power over blacks that caused the problem, not the blacks attepting > to gain their equality. By the same token, feminism is not the cause of the discord between men and women in this country, Mike, sexism is.
Awen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> From "Learning to Live with the People You Love" > D. James Kennedy, Ph.D > Hugs abounding and smile greatly, > Mike Brady > — > For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.
Response:
Caroline wrote: > PS: As far as I know, a married woman in the Netherlands still has to have > her husband co-sign any major purchase, like a house but also other things. > Jae, did I misinterpret your message or do we have different laws in > different countries?
You did not misinterpret, darlin’. Here in the U.S. we have many rights and recognitions that other countries do not have. Think of the rights that you have, Caro…..and then think of the plight of the women in some countries, like Iran. Here, I can purchase a home with no co-signer, if I have the credit and income to do so. States have additional laws also. I live in what is called a "community property state". What is acquired during a marriage belongs to both husband and wife, no matter who purchased it. My own sister was well off before she married. She owned her own business and purchased a building and opened another business during her marriage. Her husband contributed no money or work or effort in any way to that business. None of the business was in his name at all. Fifty percent of it still belonged to him. She sold the business during the marriage and was receiving payments on the sale of it. At her divorce, her husband was entitled to half of everything that was soley in her name and half of those payments for the sale of her business, too. Not to mention she had to make a settlement with him on her Keogh account, (personal retirement program) or she would have been forced to cash in that retirement account to provide him with half of it. A man or a woman can run up incredible amounts of debt that their spouse is not aware of, but remains responsible for. Even after divorce. With rights come responsibilities and "dangers", so to speak. Hugs, Jae — "Any connection between your reality and mine…. Is purely coincidental"
Response:
Gina R12 replies>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dear Frans…And, as usual, it’s worth more than can be imagined. <smile> >After being accustomed to a certain lifestyle, it is extremely difficult to >change it. But, being a single parent, I have no choice except to work. I do >not have to work to prove my intelligence or abilities….. I already know what >they are, and would love to be able to put them use at home. >Unfortunately….our needs dictate that I remain a working parent. Jeez..I >can’t even count on some rich relative leaving me a bundle. <smile> Now I do >have to admit that I have some feelings of pride in knowing that I can and have >worked and supported a family, and raised children….and I would be remiss if >I didn’t give my ex-husband credit for consistently paying a decent amount of >child support. But…I suppose I’ll always have these feelings of regret and >guilt that I wasn’t at home more for my children, and in the same breath, I am >thankful that I have been able to work, and that my children turned out pretty >special anyway. >Hugs and Smiles, >Gina >I don’t need no arms around me
Don’t I know where you talk about… 
When I lost my job, instantly we had to get ‘down’ to only 33% of our previous income. The first two years we couldn’t do it, so spend our savings. Now my boy lives on his own, with a 100.000+ income so no worries there. The wife works now 38 hours iso 28 before, has made two major promotions and a third is on her way. She earns now well enough to pay for all we need. So I work for keeping the car on the road (a lot of money in Holland) for bowling and for fun. We’ll manage with comfort. Your ‘burden’ is you have to pay for all on your own, including your daughter (Hi Mallory, how are you?) and she costs more by the year at her age. So yes, you have to work. But my statement was against the "absolutely must have newest microwave, fastest computer, sophisticated car, at least three weeks holiday far away" mentality. I enjoy a 2-hours walk in the park more than a 2-weeks holiday on the beach. But within 20 minutes, I can be on the beach, so I stick to ‘my park’. Thanks for your hugs, Gina. Needed them. I don’t agree with the Pink Floyd’s words. I love arms around me. Frans
Response:
Dear Gina, credo and Solo, I enjoyed this discussion because it was very worthy food for thought. Unfortunately, I now need to feel the need to jump in and *very* respectfully disagree with a *small* part of your wise words: :This of course, is the one major stumbling block to my belief that one 
f the parents should be staying home… cashflow. For a lot of people :its just impossible to survive without that second income… well… :maybe not impossible but it would mean having to live a life less :comfortable than you were accustomed to living. You shouldn’t have to :do that. :- credo I do not think it is the problem of having enough money to live a comfortable life. Though it is true that society teaches that we all need a microwave and other stupid inventions, because it’s impossible to live without all that stuff. However, I do believe that the primary concern is one of power. The one who has the paycheck, also has the power. And many people will misuse this power for emotional blackmail. And that is the reason that I won’t quit my job tomorrow morning, much as I am tempted to do so. Caroline PS: As far as I know, a married woman in the Netherlands still has to have her husband co-sign any major purchase, like a house but also other things. Jae, did I misinterpret your message or do we have different laws in different countries?
Response:
>I fully agree with you on this matter. Spendings on "how to look >wealthy" are wasted. And the world was a better place if people only >put in half their efforts to improve these matters you named here… >For what it’s worth… >Frans
Dear Frans…And, as usual, it’s worth more than can be imagined. <smile> After being accustomed to a certain lifestyle, it is extremely difficult to change it. But, being a single parent, I have no choice except to work. I do not have to work to prove my intelligence or abilities….. I already know what they are, and would love to be able to put them use at home. Unfortunately….our needs dictate that I remain a working parent. Jeez..I can’t even count on some rich relative leaving me a bundle. <smile> Now I do have to admit that I have some feelings of pride in knowing that I can and have worked and supported a family, and raised children….and I would be remiss if I didn’t give my ex-husband credit for consistently paying a decent amount of child support. But…I suppose I’ll always have these feelings of regret and guilt that I wasn’t at home more for my children, and in the same breath, I am thankful that I have been able to work, and that my children turned out pretty special anyway. Hugs and Smiles, Gina I don’t need no arms around me "I don’t need no drugs to calm me. I have seen the writing on the wall. Don’t think I need anything at all. All in all it was all just bricks in the wall." — Pink Floyd
Response:
On 27 Mar 1999 14:55:19 GMT, gina…@aol.com (Gina R12) wrote: >Now while I agree with certain aspects such as equal pay for equal >work…..deep down in my heart, I believe a woman’s place is in the home. I’ve >never been able to enjoy that, and it is my dream which I see quickly fading as >the years go by. I’ve had to work all my life….and I do take some pride and >satisfication in knowing that I have come a long way and have successfully >supported myself, but in the interim, I missed raising my children….I missed >so many special moments that are gone forever. I guess I resent that. Even >now, when I see a young woman that gets to stay home and be a wife and >mother….I feel that stab of envy.
Ok, I’m shooting from the hip on this one… this is not based in cold, hard facts… just my gut feelings, and of course, I’m not a woman either so perhaps my perspective is skewed. Anyway… having set my excuse for a potentially stupid statement… here I go. The feminist movement was needed. There was a gross inadequecy in our society. Women were far from being treated as equals… and sadly in some respects they still are. As a society we are working on it though… many more women are getting equal pay and working in all kinds of jobs. There is still that supposed "glass ceiling" thing in place but with time that will probably disappear as well. The movement made society… well… lets face it, made us men realise that women want the _opportunity_ to work in any job they see fit. This seems to have happened by breaking away from the "I’m just a housewife" mentality. Somewhere along the way I think that the word "opportunity" got lost and a lot of women thought they "deserved better" than to be housemakers and full-time mothers, or at least this is the impression I get as a guy. That is I think where perhaps things went wrong… we lost touch with the extreme importance and value of a woman (or a man) staying at home when raising a family. Being a housemaker shouldn’t be frowned upon… it should be rejoiced and praised! Those women that want active careers out in the business world should have nothing stopping them from doing just that. Those that wish to make a career of looking after the home and family should be free to do that as well. Its all about values I guess… we’ve just de-valued the role of a housemaker. It should be rated equal to the highest of paid jobs in terms of our respect. I think I’d rather be the Safety Officer at a nuclear power plant than be a parent… it sounds a lot less stressful <grin>. I’m not trying to suggest that women should "get back in their place" and stay at home. Heck, it could be the guy that stays at home while the woman works… once again, what I’m trying to stress is that I feel that it is important that at least one of the parents stays at home to raise the family. If you’re in a DINK (Double Income, No Kids) situation then of course there is nothing wrong with both working… tis only when trying to raise a family that its really important. Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter. – credo —–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– Version: 3.1 GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ G e h r– I* y++ ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——
Response:
On Sat, 27 Mar 1999 14:41:09 -0800, "Solo" <sm_pe…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Hi Again: >The day I find a man who’s willing to split his pay cheque with me 50/50 >right down the middle with my own buying privileges…and I’m not talking >groceries/household supplies…. I will gladly stay home and be the
This of course, is the one major stumbling block to my belief that one of the parents should be staying home… cashflow. For a lot of people its just impossible to survive without that second income… well… maybe not impossible but it would mean having to live a life less comfortable than you were accustomed to living. You shouldn’t have to do that. Thats something of a dreamy and unrealistic statement I made though. The real world doesn’t offer you more pay or more flexible working hours just because you have a family… and if it did there would probably be those that abuse the system anyway. I suppose I’ll just have to dream about that utopian society where working for a living is a thing of the past. A place where people work if they feel like it, not because they have to work to survive. >household manager, which includes: the child development specialist, the >financial planner and bill payer, the networking and catering hostess, the >gourmet cook, the child transportation and delivery service, the R+ACY-R >ticket purchaser, planner, and reservation maker, the laundry +ACY- drycleaning >service, the meal planner and grocery shopper, the childhood fighting >de-escalator/referee, the family counsellor/emotional supporter, the one >who looks after everyone who’s sick even when she’s sick herself, the >tigress in the bedroom, the good listener, the one who greats him naked with >a newspaper and beer, puts his feet up for him and massages his >temples…and listens to his all important day at the nuclear power >plant.:-)
Solo, after reading those last three lines I figure about 90 to 95% of the male readers out there are now totally in love with you <laughs>. – credo >…I’m looking for really big figures here…into the triple k’s I >think…I’ll stay home…I’ll even do it all pregnant.:-) >And you’re right, it is much less stressful in a nuclear power plant I’m >sure…there’s only one job to do…aren’t they all unionized?? At home, >those little ones…they can be a big distraction. >Tongue in cheek of course.:-) >Solo
—–BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK—– Version: 3.1 GO d–(++) s++: a– C+++ US P L W++ N++ o? K- w O- M V? PS+@ PE@ Y+ PGP- t++*@ 5+ X R+ !tv b+++ DI++ D++ G e h r– I* y++ ——END GEEK CODE BLOCK——
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ok, I’m shooting from the hip on this one… this is not based in >cold, hard facts… just my gut feelings, and of course, I’m not a >woman either so perhaps my perspective is skewed. Anyway… having set >my excuse for a potentially stupid statement… here I go. >The feminist movement was needed. There was a gross inadequecy in our >society. Women were far from being treated as equals… and sadly in >some respects they still are. As a society we are working on it >though… many more women are getting equal pay and working in all >kinds of jobs. There is still that supposed "glass ceiling" thing in >place but with time that will probably disappear as well. >The movement made society… well… lets face it, made us men realise >that women want the _opportunity_ to work in any job they see fit. >This seems to have happened by breaking away from the "I’m just a >housewife" mentality. >Somewhere along the way I think that the word "opportunity" got lost >and a lot of women thought they "deserved better" than to be >housemakers and full-time mothers, or at least this is the impression >I get as a guy. That is I think where perhaps things went wrong… we >lost touch with the extreme importance and value of a woman (or a man) >staying at home when raising a family. Being a housemaker shouldn’t be >frowned upon… it should be rejoiced and praised! >Those women that want active careers out in the business world should >have nothing stopping them from doing just that. Those that wish to >make a career of looking after the home and family should be free to >do that as well. Its all about values I guess… we’ve just de-valued >the role of a housemaker. It should be rated equal to the highest of >paid jobs in terms of our respect. I think I’d rather be the Safety >Officer at a nuclear power plant than be a parent… it sounds a lot >less stressful <grin>. >I’m not trying to suggest that women should "get back in their place" >and stay at home. Heck, it could be the guy that stays at home while >the woman works… once again, what I’m trying to stress is that I >feel that it is important that at least one of the parents stays at >home to raise the family. If you’re in a DINK (Double Income, No Kids) >situation then of course there is nothing wrong with both working… >tis only when trying to raise a family that its really important. >Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter. >- credo
Dear Credo…. Hey..for somebody shooting from the hip..you sure did an excellent job !! I agree with you on the basics….and how the priorities got all screwed up. I did enjoy reading your thoughts on the matter…. Thanks. Hugs and Smiles, Gina "She falls apart, no one there… Hold her hand, it seems to disappear… Falls apart, might as well… Day is long and nothing is wasted…" — Sugar Ray
Response:
Posted and mailed Welcome. And good points you’ve made, too. More and more of the larger companies are providing day care in the work place. It’s a trend that I hope continues. Though I don’t now require day care, I do remember a time when I did require it and it was not easy. When I needed to put The Child in day care for a few hours, three times a week, I investigated every day care in my area. I could not believe the conditions that I found. These companies that are providing it have taken into consideration the needs of both the Children and the parents and more and more are doing this because they found that there was more production and less absenteism from their employees with the doing of it. As both you and Solo have pointed out, women have always worked. It just wasn’t considered "working". It was "helping". I had read recently the cost today of hiring a person at minimum wage to perform all the jobs that a woman performs when she stays at home and "does not work". I don’t remember just what it was, but it was quite high. How old is the baby? <smile> Jae – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -brophy wrote: > Women have always worked. They gathered food with babies on their backs > while men hunted. They developed medicine in the Andes mountains from > herbs. The Incan decendents still spin wool by hand while selling potatoes > at market, after raising those potatoes and with babies on their backs. In > the U.S., all the way up until the 1940s and 50s the majority of women > worked — from Pilgrims to Pioneers to Immigrants. The post WWII economy > allowed enough prosperity for some, but by no stretch all, women to start > staying at home. We heard about those women in movies, consumer magazines > and refrigerator ads. But many, many women still worked — they had to — > and they couldn’t afford that refrigerator. Middle class women were the > ones who stayed home because that’s where the babies were, not because men > are superior in any way. Men are just more mobile. The problem with today is > that work is far from home, and men don’t want babies in the workplace. > That’s why babies have to go to daycare centers. And we all suffer. The > economy doesn’t allow one bread earner to support most households. It never > did. The cyber-revolution, contrary to predictions, failed to create more > leisure time. We all just have to produce more, faster. Most of the > country’s money goes to corporate CEOs, football players, actors and Wall > Street brokers. Feminism didn’t cause this, make it better, or make it > worse. I wish it were that simple. If you’ll excuse me, I have to go…the > baby’s crying.
– "Bad Karma loves mob tactics" Kevin Murphy
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Women have always worked. They gathered food with babies on their backs while men hunted. They developed medicine in the Andes mountains from herbs. The Incan decendents still spin wool by hand while selling potatoes at market, after raising those potatoes and with babies on their backs. In the U.S., all the way up until the 1940s and 50s the majority of women worked — from Pilgrims to Pioneers to Immigrants. The post WWII economy allowed enough prosperity for some, but by no stretch all, women to start staying at home. We heard about those women in movies, consumer magazines and refrigerator ads. But many, many women still worked — they had to — and they couldn’t afford that refrigerator. Middle class women were the ones who stayed home because that’s where the babies were, not because men are superior in any way. Men are just more mobile. The problem with today is that work is far from home, and men don’t want babies in the workplace. That’s why babies have to go to daycare centers. And we all suffer. The economy doesn’t allow one bread earner to support most households. It never did. The cyber-revolution, contrary to predictions, failed to create more leisure time. We all just have to produce more, faster. Most of the country’s money goes to corporate CEOs, football players, actors and Wall Street brokers. Feminism didn’t cause this, make it better, or make it worse. I wish it were that simple. If you’ll excuse me, I have to go…the baby’s crying. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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Hi Again: The day I find a man who’s willing to split his pay cheque with me 50/50 right down the middle with my own buying privileges…and I’m not talking groceries/household supplies…. I will gladly stay home and be the household manager, which includes: the child development specialist, the financial planner and bill payer, the networking and catering hostess, the gourmet cook, the child transportation and delivery service, the R+ACY-R ticket purchaser, planner, and reservation maker, the laundry +ACY- drycleaning service, the meal planner and grocery shopper, the childhood fighting de-escalator/referee, the family counsellor/emotional supporter, the one who looks after everyone who’s sick even when she’s sick herself, the tigress in the bedroom, the good listener, the one who greats him naked with a newspaper and beer, puts his feet up for him and massages his temples…and listens to his all important day at the nuclear power plant.:-) …I’m looking for really big figures here…into the triple k’s I think…I’ll stay home…I’ll even do it all pregnant.:-) And you’re right, it is much less stressful in a nuclear power plant I’m sure…there’s only one job to do…aren’t they all unionized?? At home, those little ones…they can be a big distraction. Tongue in cheek of course.:-) Solo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -credo wrote in message
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We certainly are in disagreement on many points. You have the right to try to attain what you consider a "good" life. What may seem good to you, does not seem so to me. I’ve had it both ways. I like having the choice. I believe my place is where I wish to be. I believe that I am responsible for the choices I make in my life. I do not place the blame on the feminist movement or on men or on other women. I do not believe any man superior to me except in physical strength. Either men or other women may be superior to me in certain qualities or traits, but I do not render a person superior to me based on gender, race or religion. It is true that women have lost certain protections, but they have also gained the right to be judged on their own credit basis, to purchase homes and cars that they were not once allowed to do without having husbands or fathers co-sign. We have been able to work in fields previously close to us because of our gender. Our ability to do the job was not taken into consideration. We were bared because we were women. Our wages have increased so that we no longer have to work two jobs to support Children whose fathers do not wish to contribute to the support of. There are pros and cons to everything. I will keep my freedom to make my own choices above all. The femininist movement did not make men who wished to throw their wives and Children out of their lives any more than it made women who wished to throw their husbands and Children out of their lives. There have always been these men and women. Who made them before the feminist movement? The feminist movement has been a convenient scapegoat, in my opinion, for people who wish to place blame for things they disagree with. I find it amusing at the moment, that I am put in a position where I am defending a movement that I refused to be a part of. I fought alone for the things I wished to have, but I do not deny that those women who fought together for the rights of all women helped me in my own fight. They helped to give us what we did not have before. Choice. I fought for the right to be judged on my credit instead of the credit of an ex-husband. I fought for higher wages to support my Children when their biological parent abondened them. I know what liberation means. I know what it means to be dependent on a male and I know what it means not to have to be dependent on a male. I will take a partnership anyday over "being taken care of". BTW, no matter how you regard Pat Robertson, it remains my opinion that the statement I quoted by him is still bullshit. <smile> Hugs, Jae – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gina R12 wrote: > >And your quote, Mike, reminds me of this one by Rev. Pat Robertson at the > >1992 G.O.P Convention: "Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, > >kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become > >lesbians." I consider it to be just as much bullshit as the one you posted. > Dear Jae… > Uh oh….our great minds are in opposition on this one. Pat Robertson is one > of my favorite people. Of course, this doesn’t dictate that he’s always right, > and maybe his statement was a bit extreme…..but the bottom line is….the > commencement of the feminist movement started the decline in the family. I’ve > also seen a lot of women loose a lot because of the feminist movement. An > example would be that there once was a time when a woman would, with certainty, > receive alimony and most of the assets of a marriage when there was a divorce. > This no longer applies…and, at best, alimony is temporary for a given period > of time. This has been devastating to some women that have come through our > office….having been married for 20 or 25 years….and having stayed home > being a housewife all those years. Now…because of the insistence that women > are equal to men….those women, who have no skills to launch a career, and who > may be beyond the age to even be able launch a career, are left out in the cold > — thanks to the feminist movement. The man can throw away his wife and not > fear losing too much. Maybe I just see too much of the "down" side of it. > Now while I agree with certain aspects such as equal pay for equal > work…..deep down in my heart, I believe a woman’s place is in the home. I’ve > never been able to enjoy that, and it is my dream which I see quickly fading as > the years go by. I’ve had to work all my life….and I do take some pride and > satisfication in knowing that I have come a long way and have successfully > supported myself, but in the interim, I missed raising my children….I missed > so many special moments that are gone forever. I guess I resent that. Even > now, when I see a young woman that gets to stay home and be a wife and > mother….I feel that stab of envy. Also…a woman gets pregnant and can get > an abortion without the father of the child even knowing !! Something is wrong > with that picture. I think somewhere between the start of this message up to > this point, I got off the subject. <laugh> Anyway…women had it made until > the feminist movement….now they get to go out and work with the men and make > their mark, while someone else raises their children and cleans their > home….they get to go to war with the men, etc. I just can’t see all that > liberation as improvement. Okay….see what you did ?! You got the > "Conservative" in me to babbling. :-) > Hugs and Smiles, > Gina > "She falls apart, no one there… > Hold her hand, it seems to disappear… > Falls apart, might as well… > Day is long and nothing is wasted…" > — Sugar Ray
– "Bad Karma loves mob tactics" Kevin Murphy
Response:
>And your quote, Mike, reminds me of this one by Rev. Pat Robertson at the >1992 G.O.P Convention: "Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, >kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become >lesbians." I consider it to be just as much bullshit as the one you posted.
Dear Jae… Uh oh….our great minds are in opposition on this one. Pat Robertson is one of my favorite people. Of course, this doesn’t dictate that he’s always right, and maybe his statement was a bit extreme…..but the bottom line is….the commencement of the feminist movement started the decline in the family. I’ve also seen a lot of women loose a lot because of the feminist movement. An example would be that there once was a time when a woman would, with certainty, receive alimony and most of the assets of a marriage when there was a divorce. This no longer applies…and, at best, alimony is temporary for a given period of time. This has been devastating to some women that have come through our office….having been married for 20 or 25 years….and having stayed home being a housewife all those years. Now…because of the insistence that women are equal to men….those women, who have no skills to launch a career, and who may be beyond the age to even be able launch a career, are left out in the cold — thanks to the feminist movement. The man can throw away his wife and not fear losing too much. Maybe I just see too much of the "down" side of it. Now while I agree with certain aspects such as equal pay for equal work…..deep down in my heart, I believe a woman’s place is in the home. I’ve never been able to enjoy that, and it is my dream which I see quickly fading as the years go by. I’ve had to work all my life….and I do take some pride and satisfication in knowing that I have come a long way and have successfully supported myself, but in the interim, I missed raising my children….I missed so many special moments that are gone forever. I guess I resent that. Even now, when I see a young woman that gets to stay home and be a wife and mother….I feel that stab of envy. Also…a woman gets pregnant and can get an abortion without the father of the child even knowing !! Something is wrong with that picture. I think somewhere between the start of this message up to this point, I got off the subject. <laugh> Anyway…women had it made until the feminist movement….now they get to go out and work with the men and make their mark, while someone else raises their children and cleans their home….they get to go to war with the men, etc. I just can’t see all that liberation as improvement. Okay….see what you did ?! You got the "Conservative" in me to babbling. :-) Hugs and Smiles, Gina "She falls apart, no one there… Hold her hand, it seems to disappear… Falls apart, might as well… Day is long and nothing is wasted…" — Sugar Ray
Response:
Dear Mike…. Yes…I have to agree with the good doctor. However, it should be noted that a conscious effort can be made to "break the chain" and these problems caused by environment in childhood can be overcome successfully. I’m a bit old-fashioned when it comes to the "man/woman" roles. The man is superior….but he has to earn my respect. The respect part seems to be one of those ever elusive things. Perhaps because I can believe that man is superior….my expectations are too high. Another one of those vicious circles. Hugs and Smiles, Gina "She falls apart, no one there… Hold her hand, it seems to disappear… Falls apart, might as well… Day is long and nothing is wasted…" — Sugar Ray
Response:
Mike Brady wrote: > I’ve finally stumbled on an issue where you and I are definitely on different > sides. For the sake of friendship, I’m not going to respond to your message > since defending my position will seem as if I’m attacking yours. > Hugs abunding and smile greatly, > Mike Brady > — > For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.
<laughing softly> We shall have to agree to disagree. I appreciate your gesture. I do not think this forum needs the two of us at each other’s throats and I would not wish to argue vehemently with you. Especially since I figure you could possibly be more vehement than I. <grin> Hugs to you, darlin’…..Jae — "Bad Karma loves mob tactics" Kevin Murphy
Response:
Jae <Lady…@ccms.net> wrote in message news:36FC6CC5.85BD23C0@ccms.net… > But, you see…..I don’t agree that feminism teaches women that. Not that I’m a card carrying member or anything. I was "liberated" long before it > became fashionable. It’s my opinion that feminism doesn’t teach women to think as Solo did, but some men teach us to think that way and it takes a > different breed of men to help us learn different. Hugs, Jae > "Bad Karma loves mob tactics" > Kevin Murphy
I’ve finally stumbled on an issue where you and I are definitely on different sides. For the sake of friendship, I’m not going to respond to your message since defending my position will seem as if I’m attacking yours. Hugs abunding and smile greatly, Mike Brady — For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.
Response:
Dear Jae, the point I was making in my message was that feminism does teach women to think as Solo had thought: that men are "all ruthless, cold Datas just pretending to be charmers". That’s a feminist lie. I’m glad that it’s been exposed and that Solo is learning the truth about "the tenderness and vulnerability of men" from the men on this group. Hugs abounding and smile greatly, Mike Brady — For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jae <Lady…@ccms.net> wrote in message news:36FC5E95.B72D006A@ccms.net… > And your quote, Mike, reminds me of this one by Rev. Pat Robertson at the 1992 G.O.P Convention: "Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, > kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." I consider it to be just as much bullshit as the one you posted. > Smiles and hugs, Jae > Mike Brady wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:44:35 -0800, "Solo" <sm_pe…@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >Every time I read here, I am surprised at the tenderness and vulnerability > > >of men…somehow I got it in my head you were all ruthless, cold Datas just > > >pretending to be charmers.:-) It just never would even have occurred to me > > >that a man would not go to see this film because of fear of emotional > > >pain…at the loss of that in his life. > > This reminds me of the following passage: > > The feminist movement tells women, "You can compete with men because > > you are the superior sex." > > Clinical studies show that a female child reared in the home of a dominant, > > masculine mother will, because of the attitudes toward men instilled in her > > mind and heart, be rendered frigid by the age of five. Many girls are taught > > that males are basically the enemy who seek to subjugate and dominate > > females. For this reason men must be competed with and regarded as > > animalistic beasts who take advantage of women for their own lustful > > pleasure. > > A woman who enters into competitiveness with her mate begins to view him as a threat. When this happens, she cannot respond to him sexually. > > No wonder so many women today grow up with feelings of rejection, anger, > > guilt, and envy toward their brothers, fathers, and mates. > > From "Learning to Live with the People You Love" > > D. James Kennedy, Ph.D > > Hugs abounding and smile greatly, > > Mike Brady > > — > > For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism. > — > "Bad Karma loves mob tactics" > Kevin Murphy
Response:
Mike Brady wrote: > Dear Jae, the point I was making in my message was that feminism does > teach women to think as Solo had thought: that men are "all ruthless, cold > Datas just pretending to be charmers". > That’s a feminist lie. I’m glad that it’s been exposed and that Solo is learning > the truth about "the tenderness and vulnerability of men" from the men on this > group.
But, you see…..I don’t agree that feminism teaches women that. Not that I’m a card carrying member or anything. I was "liberated" long before it became fashionable. It’s my opinion that feminism doesn’t teach women to think as Solo did, but some men teach us to think that way and it takes a different breed of men to help us learn different. Hugs, Jae "Bad Karma loves mob tactics" Kevin Murphy
Response:
And your quote, Mike, reminds me of this one by Rev. Pat Robertson at the 1992 G.O.P Convention: "Feminism encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." I consider it to be just as much bullshit as the one you posted. Smiles and hugs, Jae – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mike Brady wrote: > On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:44:35 -0800, "Solo" <sm_pe…@yahoo.com> wrote: > >Every time I read here, I am surprised at the tenderness and vulnerability > >of men…somehow I got it in my head you were all ruthless, cold Datas just > >pretending to be charmers.:-) It just never would even have occurred to me > >that a man would not go to see this film because of fear of emotional > >pain…at the loss of that in his life. > This reminds me of the following passage: > The feminist movement tells women, "You can compete with men because > you are the superior sex." > Clinical studies show that a female child reared in the home of a dominant, > masculine mother will, because of the attitudes toward men instilled in her > mind and heart, be rendered frigid by the age of five. Many girls are taught > that males are basically the enemy who seek to subjugate and dominate > females. For this reason men must be competed with and regarded as > animalistic beasts who take advantage of women for their own lustful > pleasure. > A woman who enters into competitiveness with her mate begins to view him as a threat. When this happens, she cannot respond to him sexually. > No wonder so many women today grow up with feelings of rejection, anger, > guilt, and envy toward their brothers, fathers, and mates. > From "Learning to Live with the People You Love" > D. James Kennedy, Ph.D > Hugs abounding and smile greatly, > Mike Brady > — > For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.
– "Bad Karma loves mob tactics" Kevin Murphy
Response:
On Fri, 26 Mar 1999 10:44:35 -0800, "Solo" <sm_pe…@yahoo.com> wrote: >Every time I read here, I am surprised at the tenderness and vulnerability >of men…somehow I got it in my head you were all ruthless, cold Datas just >pretending to be charmers.:-) It just never would even have occurred to me >that a man would not go to see this film because of fear of emotional >pain…at the loss of that in his life.
This reminds me of the following passage: The feminist movement tells women, "You can compete with men because you are the superior sex." Clinical studies show that a female child reared in the home of a dominant, masculine mother will, because of the attitudes toward men instilled in her mind and heart, be rendered frigid by the age of five. Many girls are taught that males are basically the enemy who seek to subjugate and dominate females. For this reason men must be competed with and regarded as animalistic beasts who take advantage of women for their own lustful pleasure. A woman who enters into competitiveness with her mate begins to view him as a threat. When this happens, she cannot respond to him sexually. No wonder so many women today grow up with feelings of rejection, anger, guilt, and envy toward their brothers, fathers, and mates. From "Learning to Live with the People You Love" D. James Kennedy, Ph.D Hugs abounding and smile greatly, Mike Brady — For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism.
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