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Menendez stuff

Question:

AWOKE THIS MORNING, TO FIND YOUR RESPONSE. THANK YOU SO MUCH!: TO TELL THE TRUTH, MY ONLY DILLEMA WAS BEING CAUGHT BY SUPRISE IN MY CAREFULLY LAID PLANS TO CONFRONT MY FATHER. THE PLANS I HAVE BEEN MAKING HAVE BEEN ON GOING FOR 11 YEARS, BUT I HAD NO IDEA THAT MY STEP-MOTHER WOULD STILL BE AROUND (HOPEFULLY BURNING IN HELL!) ANYWAY I SUPPOSE I WAS FANTISIZING THAT ONE DAY HE HAD GOTTEN UP AND CONFRONTED HER, DEFENDING ME AT LAST. WELL SO MUCH FOR CHILDHOOD FANTASY, SHE IS STILL THERE. I ONLY HOPE IT DOSEN’T TAKE ANOTHER 11 YEARS TO ADJUST TO THIS ENLIGHTENING INFORMATION. I WILL NOT SPEAK WITH THAT WOMAN, EVEN IF MY LIFE DEPENDED ON IT.(WHICH AT ONE TIME, IT DID.) I HAVE NO INTENTIONS OF OFFERING HER THE SLIGHTEST OPPORTUNITY TO HURT ME AGAIN IN ANY WAY. SO, JUST WHEN I THOUGHT I’D ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS, MORE QUESTIONS. I MUST ADMIT I RESENT ALL THIS SURFACING NOW, JUST WHEN I THOUGHT I WAS READY TO PUT THE PAST ONCE AND FOR ALL, BEHIND ME.

Response:

You seem incapable of feeling any remorse for Katy, their mother, who was also abused.  What she did was wrong – but it was probably all she knew.  At least, she didn’t kill anyone.  And although what she did was wrong, she did not deserve the death sentence which both Lyle and Erik executed upon her.

Peter…me too.  My husband only knew abuse, but that doesn’t give him the right to abuse me or my daughter (which he hasn’t done, by the way).   When confronted with why he abuses me, his answer was, "It’s all I know"…well that’s no excuse to hurt me, it’s a cop out and I have no compassion for that attitude.  If he were to die, I would have no remorse…because he has no remorse for the pain he has inflicted on me.   Perhaps this is a bad attitude to have toward him, but it’s how I feel right now. For the record Peter, I agree with you that the boys were wrong in doing what they did and deserve to be punished.  Perhaps I took the above comment out of context and for that I apologize, but it hit a nerve. Hugs…Clueless

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (AlfaRomeo1) writes:  People just believe it cuz the family was rich…and its easy to believe.  It doesn’t mean it is the truth.  Spending money is not mutually exclusive with greed.  There are many reasons, emotional reasons, someone would spend huge amounts of money. I agree the boys were abused.  You forget one major thing.   THEY AREN’T THE ONLY CHILDREN TO SUFFER THIS ABUSE!! There are thousands of walking wounded and NONE of them killed anyone.  To say the money was not important is also NOT true. Both boys could have as other survivors have walked away.  BUT doing that would have left them destitute.  You’re saying most support the Menendez brother on this echo is pure BS.  Besides yourself, I haven’t counted one who did not believe the brothers quilty and deserving of some punishment.   I believe the abuse should be considered in their sentencing and pray that they are not given the death sentence.  These young men had many other options than killing their parents.  They plotted it and they were not insane.  They could have just as easily plotted stealing money and running away. No one should be permitted to blame their abuse for their actions. So they were abused, so was I.  I did wrong and faced it.  I didn’t even lie when 1st confronted.   I figfure their remorse is at coming to realize what they did.  I hope they are given 20 years to sit and think about their actions – which makes them exactly what they despise.  20 years incareceration to think about what they did, to recall the pain on their parents and to know they inflicted it and not be allowed to use their parents fortune to distract them from those thoughts – I think that’s fair.  Probably more than fair. Perhaps with good therapy, they could help other survivors come to understand that killing is not a solution – talking about it – reporting it but not stalking and murdering.  Perhaps in 20 years if they are truly remorseful, they will be able to make amends for their actions. You seem incapable of feeling any remorse for Katy, their mother, who was also abused.  What she did was wrong – but it was probably all she knew.  At least, she didn’t kill anyone.  And although what she did was wrong, she did not deserve the death sentence which both Lyle and Erik executed upon her. The abuse defense should be used in the parents behalf which you fail to see.   If these young men are remorseful about this they will find the means to make amends to society for their actions.  I don’t see it yet. O,yes, I believe the night of the murders, they truly were hysterical – just like my oldest was when confronted with the fact her baby sister was sexually molested – it wasn’t over the fact her sister had been sexually abused but withthe inner gut reaction that she was the one who did it and now she’d have to live with that fact for the rest of her life. Sadness that you mistake compassion for forgiveness and for support…           Peter B — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

said: outcome for me has often been bad.  My advice (since you asked for it) is to go over very carefully what you are going to do, what you want to accomplish, what could go wrong – what will you do in that event.  I would do this with a therapist and cover everything that could happpen before I did it and I would get past being overwhelmed and very clear on how I felt before I did it.   Preparation is important for us.   Surprises tend to take the rug out from under us.  Be prepared.  Don’t act on impulse.

I would also add: Figure out what the best (but realistic) result could be, and what the worst (but also realistic) result could be.  Decide what it is you _need_ from them/him and decide how harmed you would be if the worst case scenario happened.  If you feel you truly could not cope with the worst case, then wait.  Don’t set yourself up for more abuse (in any form).  I’m working on a similar, though not identical, problem.  Good luck, Suzanne! — Valerie

Response:

ow what do I do? I’m filled with conflicting emotions coupled with my desire to confront my father. Finding that he is still living with my abuser has created more issues for me to deal with. I’m overwhelmed with the whole situation, and any advise, or ideas are greatly appreciated. lee

You said something very important  here, that you are overwhelmed.   I normally would ask in this instance. What do you want to do.  However this one word "overwhelmed" is just blocking the way here.  I can only say that from my experience when I make moves when I am overwhelmed, the outcome for me has often been bad.  My advice (since you asked for it) is to go over very carefully what you are going to do, what you want to accomplish, what could go wrong – what will you do in that event.  I would do this with a therapist and cover everything that could happpen before I did it and I would get past being overwhelmed and very clear on how I felt before I did it.   Preparation is important for us.  Surprises tend to take the rug out from under us.  Be prepared.  Don’t act on impulse. Take care, Crisis

Response:

well, i’ve stayed out of this. but i don’t feel like it today. i was horribly horribly abused by both my parents. i really have a lot of sympathy for the menendez brothers. it hurts my heart to know that they went through what they did. i can understand the pain that would drive them to kill. but i still think murder is wrong. if i had killed my parents, despite the incredibly terrible things they did to me, it would still be wrong. and i think it’s wrong for the menendez brothers to have killed. yes, there were circumstances that led them to kill. but the same can be said of anyone who commits any crime. murder is still murder. my father raped, molested and beat me for any number of reasons. he was mentally unstable, he was abused himself. but he still went to jail for what he did. if abuse can be used as a defence for murder then why not for further abuse? i don’t believe abuse is a good enough excuse. i do feel that the circumstances should be considered when setting the penalty, but if they are guilty, then they are *guilty* no matter what the mitigating circumstances. these are my thoughts. you don’t have to agree, but i’d really appreciate not being flamed. in peace, silverleaf — — "You can’t fight evil with a macaroni duck!" "I’ll be the judge of that!"  -Arthur and the Tick

Response:

Hello, Suzanne. I’ve been lurking in the shadows of this ng and I have a question for you (and the girls, Valerie, Clueless, Alis, you can chime in at any time.) I’m constantly flooded with fantasies, and feelings of all sorts of emotional reactions. My most strong reaction was to the religious issues. I too abhore religious fanatisam as I suffered at the hands of a step monster. (as I call her) I was told when I sought help from the Fairbanks Alaska Women In Crisis Center, that this was known as ritual abuse. This woman was and still is with the same church group, and worst of all she is still with my father. Here is where your help is needed most of all. In the past few days I’ve felt compelled to talk with my father, just to try and resolve some of the feelings I’ve had over the years. You see I’m filled with anger because he sat passively while this woman damn near destroyed my life (as a matter of fact she did try to take my life at one time.) I contacted his sister Elizabeth,and she willingly passed his phone # on to me. Now comes the hard choice, many members of his family witnessed the signs of abuse (ie. the ambulance, the bruses, and my change in personality), not to mention the school, and child protective service intervention. But none chose to believe me, or was able to prove anything by interviewing the family. My father and step mother only sent me away fearing if I stayed in the state, they would be prosocuted. This was only after I was hospitalized for poisoning.(Her concotion of vinegar and dishwashing soap "to purify my soul" only served to make me very ill, THANK GOD.) Now what do I do? I’m filled with conflicting emotions coupled with my desire to confront my father. Finding that he is still living with my abuser has created more issues for me to deal with. I’m overwhelmed with the whole situation, and any advise, or ideas are greatly appreciated. lee

Response:

Clueless spoke: Peter…me too.  My husband only knew abuse, but that doesn’t give him the right to abuse me or my daughter (which he hasn’t done, by the way).   When confronted with why he abuses me, his answer was, "It’s all I know"…well that’s no excuse to hurt me, it’s a cop out and I have no compassion for that attitude.  If he were to die, I would have no remorse…because he has no remorse for the pain he has inflicted on me.  

Hi Clueless, We agree but there is a difference between your husband and the Menendez boys.  Your husband is misdirect his anger or upbringing upon you whereas the Menendez brothers directed their rage at their abusers. My point is that BOTH are wrong – both equally wrong.  Primarily because both use the same excuse, "I had NO other choice."  All of that is bunk.  Everyone here (I believe) can think of a half a dozen other choices the Menendez boys could have made. I can have compassion for their inability to make a better choice – just like I can have compassion for your husband’s inability to see his abusive action as a choice – a choice he can make to stop.  I believe the Menendez boys need lots of therapy and plenty of time to consider what they did. Just as your husband needs more help than you can provide.  I do not hate either your husband nor the Menendez boys – I do hate what they did and what your husband still does. There is no excuse for what they did – there is mitigating circumstances.  I wish the charge would have been less or that the jury would have been given the alternative to select a lesser charge.  I think life sentence and the death penalty is probably too harsh.  But having to choose between letting them off scot-free or finding them guilty, I think I’d have to find them guilty. FWIW,      Peter B — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

(AlfaRomeo1) writes:  People just believe it cuz the family was rich…and its easy to believe.  It doesn’t mean it is the truth.  Spending money is not mutually exclusive with greed.  There are many reasons, emotional reasons, someone would spend huge amounts of money.

I agree the boys were abused.  You forget one major thing.   THEY AREN’T THE ONLY CHILDREN TO SUFFER THIS ABUSE!! There are thousands of walking wounded and NONE of them killed anyone.  To say the money was not important is also NOT true. Both boys could have as other survivors have walked away.  BUT doing that would have left them destitute.  You’re saying most support the Menendez brother on this echo is pure BS.  Besides yourself, I haven’t counted one who did not believe the brothers quilty and deserving of some punishment.   I believe the abuse should be considered in their sentencing and pray that they are not given the death sentence.  These young men had many other options than killing their parents.  They plotted it and they were not insane.  They could have just as easily plotted stealing money and running away. No one should be permitted to blame their abuse for their actions. So they were abused, so was I.  I did wrong and faced it.  I didn’t even lie when 1st confronted.   I figfure their remorse is at coming to realize what they did.  I hope they are given 20 years to sit and think about their actions – which makes them exactly what they despise.  20 years incareceration to think about what they did, to recall the pain on their parents and to know they inflicted it and not be allowed to use their parents fortune to distract them from those thoughts – I think that’s fair.  Probably more than fair. Perhaps with good therapy, they could help other survivors come to understand that killing is not a solution – talking about it – reporting it but not stalking and murdering.  Perhaps in 20 years if they are truly remorseful, they will be able to make amends for their actions. You seem incapable of feeling any remorse for Katy, their mother, who was also abused.  What she did was wrong – but it was probably all she knew.  At least, she didn’t kill anyone.  And although what she did was wrong, she did not deserve the death sentence which both Lyle and Erik executed upon her. The abuse defense should be used in the parents behalf which you fail to see.   If these young men are remorseful about this they will find the means to make amends to society for their actions.  I don’t see it yet. O,yes, I believe the night of the murders, they truly were hysterical – just like my oldest was when confronted with the fact her baby sister was sexually molested – it wasn’t over the fact her sister had been sexually abused but withthe inner gut reaction that she was the one who did it and now she’d have to live with that fact for the rest of her life. Sadness that you mistake compassion for forgiveness and for support…            Peter B — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

First of all….I commend you all for your insight into child abuse and the way it continues to affect your lives as you live as adults

Thank you there are many of us that wish it hadn’t happened that we have such a unique insight into child abuse.  But we do and we heal here with each other.   I wish to commend you for being such a good friend to two men who very obviously at this point in their lives need friends.  I do know that they went through hell, that I do not doubt.  All that I have heard of Jose and Kitty has troubled me greatly.   I have read the transcripts, interviews, motions and such from the second trial and I watched the first trial every day for six months.  (I taped it, I do have a life Ya’ll.)  :-) It troubles me greatly to read of letters, and witnesses and telephone calls, that involve Lyle.  It showed a different face than he presented in court and I understand that this was why he was not called as a witness.  I am a paralegal and do trial work and I know that it was not because he was "not needed".  They didn’t "need" for him to be cross- examined. However, that is moot now and we are at the penalty phase.  I hope that you continue to stand by the brothers.  They will need you in the months ahead.  I also will be pulling for a life sentence instead of death, if that is what they want. Again, thank you for being a very brave and special person.  A friend when it is not fair weather. Take care, Crisis

Response:

First of all….I commend you all for your insight into child abuse and the way it continues to affect your lives as you live as adults.  As a supporter of the Menendez brothers, I’m glad and relieved that most of you acknowledge the abuse that Lyle & Erik lived through at the hands of their parents.  I think this kind of acknowledgement would mean the world to them, in a world that sees them as a national joke.  I have found Jay Leno’s jokes about them crying and being otherwise emotional, to be truly offensive.  With that kind of reaction, and others very similar, I have proof of why people want to keep the abuse a secret.  What if they don’t believe me?  What if they think I’m making it all up?  While I understand that people are justified in their skepticism at first, due to the way Lyle & Erik’s abuse was revealed to the world, once one sits down and goes through the statements from the teachers, coaches, friends and family members, it becomes apparent that abuse occurred.  And to the people who scoff at the abuse, saying its made up or exaggerated, I can only say, READ THE WITNESS STATEMENTS in the testimony and appended to motions to the court.   As far as the not-showing-remorse laments I’ve seen, I’ve seen and heard the remorse they have. While the 911 call was being made, Lyle is crying and Erik can be heard in the background, wailing loudly.  Lyle is obviously lying when he neglected to offer up the fact that he’d done the deed himself.  But the emotions on the tape are real. Most of the words themselves are real.  Lyle, while talking to 911, is screaming at Erik to stay out of the room where the parents are at.  Erik is wailing.  When the police get there, Erik curls up in a ball on the front lawn, sobbing uncontrollably.  The scene was hysterical. The police on the scene that night, believe they were genuinely hysterical, TO THIS DAY.  There is the 17 page letter, that was taken from Erik’s cell 3 months after they were arrested.  It is a letter from Lyle to Erik. Lyle mentions that what they had done was a mistake and wrong.  He also mentions that only he and Erik know the secrets of their family’s past.  Lyle also laments that he’d rather go to prison for life or to the gas chamber than reveal these secrets to the whole world.  He also said that he struggles constantly with the notion of revealing the abuse, "I believe that a man should take responsibility for his actions and abuse is not taking responsiblity…".  The prosecution would NEVER allow this letter into evidence.  I heard mention of conversations Lyle had with others about the killings….but what is ALWAYS not mentioned are the things he DOES say that would cause one to believe that 1.) he was abused, and 2.) he does have a lot of guilt about what he did.  There is also the testimony of both brothers in trial #1 and Erik in trial #2.  The other side always says…."Wow, what fantastic actors!"  I don’t know about any of you, but Lyle especially, (who wasn’t the actor of the family, BTW) was compelling and consistent.  He showed extreme remorse over what happened.  He admitted things that the prosecution could NOT prove without his admission.  He told the stories of abuse….and cried about it.  He cried when he was telling stories of his brother’s abuse…he could hardly speak when he was telling what happened during the reload….and this is a man with no remorse? It is extremely easy to say they had no remorse….so easy, because it makes it easier to believe they are horrible, spoiled brats who only wanted the money.  In reality, they are terribly guilty feeling and have dreams and nightmares about their parents, TO THIS DAY.  They are suicidal and have been since the end of the first trial. Dr. William Vicary, a noted forensic phychologist, has staked his 20 year career and a superb reputation in coming out in support of these brothers.  He sees hundred of jail inmates every week….he’s an expert in malingering and the like.  He believes the remorse they’ve shown in court and out of court, is genuine. Concerning their mother’s abuse….many times, here and in the media, I’ve seen people say that their mother didn’t abuse them.  Anyone who saw the first trial, KNOWS this is not true.  In fact, in most instances, it was the mother’s abuse, both physical and emotional, that caused the most harm.  Kitty Menendez wasn’t a bad person.  She was a mentally unstable person who was herself a victim of childhood abuse, AND abuse from her husband.  She wasn’t stable before she got involved with Jose Menendez, her involvement with him was just icing on the cake.  She was so absorbed in her own pain, which she never seemed to get any comfort or assistance for, that she could not stand up to Jose, or be a real mother.  Her own pain and mental instability made her a person who was susceptible to rages, uncontrollable, frequent rages brought on for no apparent reason.  In these rages, she’d do the most abuse. These rages usually happened during the day while Jose was at work, and Lyle & Erik were home with her.  This continued to happen until she died.  Even though Lyle didn’t live with her 12 months/year….but the little child inside (which all of us DO have) who was scared and beaten and pulled around by the hair and chased with knives and screamed at and ridiculed and put in closets and kicked and slapped and denigrated almost daily…. HE remembers. On the other hand, she’d let them both get lost in shopping malls and airports.  She’d continue her business, and pick them up 2 or 3 hours later at the security area (having been turned in by some adult who noticed 2 little boys, alone and crying).  This abuse their mother dished out is overlooked.  It is a common misconception the media perpetrates. Another common belief is that they killed for money…I don’t think they HAD to kill for money.  They HAD money. Lyle’s life was going great…his dad was buying him a condo, clothes, and a college education.  Witnesses say the parents and Lyle were getting along beautifully before the killings.  The only thing was that Erik was miserable. But killing for money doesn’t hold up when you consider the fact that it was common knowledge that Jose was going to be worth around $5 M more in just 2 weeks, when he took a physical for a "key man" policy LIVE Entertainment has set up for him.  What is their hurry?  Wait 2 weeks…get $5M more.  Plus…not even their ex-friends who testified against them said they EVER said or acted like they wanted huge amounts of money.  It is the standard thing–someone kills someone, the prosecutors always say it was for money.  It isn’t ALWAYS.  People just believe it cuz the family was rich…and its easy to believe.  It doesn’t mean it is the truth.  Spending money is not mutually exclusive with greed.  There are many reasons, emotional reasons, someone would spend huge amounts of money.

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