Act Acting » Method Acting » Arrogance or Confidence. The Difference ?

Arrogance or Confidence. The Difference ?

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > mark.gr…@reading.ac.uk (Mark Green) wrote in > news:88139ee2.0303240746.3526ed56@posting.google.com: > > William P <d…@email.me> wrote in message > > <news:Xns9343EEEDDF1B8williamp@206.172.150.13>… > >> The classic party line is that there is no difference.  I see a bit > >> of a difference, and would say that to me:  Confidence means you > >> perceive yourself to be very capable.  Arrogance means you are very > >> interested in having other people seeing you as capable (maybe this > >> is much more important than actually being capable), and also an > >> element of showing contempt for other people who aren’t as capable. > >   The problem with this is that, not so long ago, there was a very > > long thread between me, Marc Meunier, and Allen Cybluskie about how > > the word ‘confidence’, as used in ‘confidence is attractive’, doesn’t > > actually mean much about your perception of yourself.  If it did, you > > could attract by being confident that you’d be approached by women. > >   The contention was that the confidence had to be visible to others > > in order to be attractive.  In other words, it had to be obvious to > > others that you were confident.  In other words, it would be arrogance > > by your definition above. > If you want to convince me that "arrogance is attractive", I’m sold! > Claims: > 1.  Internal mental state can influence external behaviour in subtle ways > that we are not consciously aware of. > 2.  The instinctive way that feeling "confident" changes behaviour and > mannerisms is a way that is generally attractive to women.  (And the way > that feeling insecure and lacking self confidences generally makes us > appear is very unattractive.) > 3.  This feedback is pretty universal in human beings, even the ones who > want to believe they are very logical creatures.  It’s almost impossible > to separate the internal from external parts.  (Even good actors need to > use techniques of getting themselves to feel the emotions they’re > portraying, either by "method acting", which is imagining themselves in a > situation where they feel the right emotion, or invoking that emotion > more directly.)

Actually there are many, many acting methods, not just method acting to convey emotion. It could even be claimed that method acting isn’t as effective as other methods because the emotions are too internalized and do not affect the audience as much or just leave them confused.

Response:

poppytar <poppy…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:h5Jfa.17838$jA2.1592957@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net: >> 3.  This feedback is pretty universal in human beings, even the ones >> who want to believe they are very logical creatures.  It’s almost >> impossible to separate the internal from external parts.  (Even good >> actors need to use techniques of getting themselves to feel the >> emotions they’re portraying, either by "method acting", which is >> imagining themselves in a situation where they feel the right >> emotion, or invoking that emotion more directly.) > Actually there are many, many acting methods, not just method acting > to convey emotion.

Of course.  But I’ll bet you that the vast majority of actors who are able to convey emotion actually feel that emotion while acting.  "An actor laughs and weeps and all the while he is watching himself do it."   I don’t know if it is possible to very effectively separate the emotion from the physical reactions, because so much of our body’s control is subconscious.  (E.g. all of the muscles used to smile which don’t get used when a person tries to fake one.)  I’d say such an ability is certainly not common. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It could even be claimed that method acting isn’t > as effective as other methods because the emotions are too > internalized and do not affect the audience as much or just leave them > confused.

Response:

MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in news:7cfd37d2.0303231111.f9afe9e@posting.google.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> William P. I think that is a pretty good characterization. > I would add that most confident people are also confident enough to > know that they don’t have all the answers to every little thing in > life. > What I mean by that is, they are very confident in themselves, and > also confident in realizing their own limitations. And they don’t see > the fact that they don’t know " everything " as something that takes > away from their confidence. > Arrogant people on the other hand, see themselves as perfect in every > way, and without any deficiencies whatsoever. They are also more > likely to brag about themselves. A confident person, has enough faith > in their own abilities that they don’t go out and try to prove their > greatness to everyone they meet. > But then that begs another question. Are all arrogant people > necesarily > " confident " people ?

Just because I wasn’t cynical enough in that last post, there isn’t any question in my mind that in the real world, arrogance is almost always more useful than confidence.   (It usually doesn’t matter as much whether you are actually good at something and know it, if you are able to demonstrate to other people that you are…  and enjoy going it frequently!)  This is certainly true with attracting women as well as getting employment and being successful at many jobs, for instance.

Response:

On 23 Mar 2003 11:18:24 -0800, MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote: >Brian said >" An arrogant person knows they can do it well but also feels the need >to flaunt that fact. It’s not enough that they know they are better >than you in some regard but they are not content unless you fully >realize this as well. " >That begs another question. Is the arrogant person truly a confident person ?

some of them thinks about some actors who are really good at what they do and they know it and they flaunt it. Then again some people tend to get ticked off at any self horn tooting like it is somehow wrong to be proud of yourself and express that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->baboo…@hotmail.com (Brian Thompson) wrote in message <news:7d36358a.0303201119.6da747f6@posting.google.com>… >> MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in message <news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739@posting.google.com>… >> > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or >> > confident. >> > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the >> > other. >> > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a >> > confident person ? >> > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? >> > What kinds of behaviors or actions ? >> I don’t think it is all that hard to tell them apart. >> A confident person knows they are capable of doing something well >> (job, social interactions etc). >> An arrogant person knows they can do it well but also feels the need >> to flaunt that fact. It’s not enough that they know they are better >> than you in some regard but they are not content unless you fully >> realize this as well. >> In the world of boxing… >> Confident – Evander Holyfield >> Arrogant –  Muhammad Ali (during his in-ring days) >> An arrogant person has to have confidence but a confident person is >> not always arrogant.

Response:

mark.gr…@reading.ac.uk (Mark Green) wrote in news:88139ee2.0303240746.3526ed56@posting.google.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> William P <d…@email.me> wrote in message > <news:Xns9343EEEDDF1B8williamp@206.172.150.13>… >> The classic party line is that there is no difference.  I see a bit >> of a difference, and would say that to me:  Confidence means you >> perceive yourself to be very capable.  Arrogance means you are very >> interested in having other people seeing you as capable (maybe this >> is much more important than actually being capable), and also an >> element of showing contempt for other people who aren’t as capable. >   The problem with this is that, not so long ago, there was a very > long thread between me, Marc Meunier, and Allen Cybluskie about how > the word ‘confidence’, as used in ‘confidence is attractive’, doesn’t > actually mean much about your perception of yourself.  If it did, you > could attract by being confident that you’d be approached by women. >   The contention was that the confidence had to be visible to others > in order to be attractive.  In other words, it had to be obvious to > others that you were confident.  In other words, it would be arrogance > by your definition above.

If you want to convince me that "arrogance is attractive", I’m sold! Claims: 1.  Internal mental state can influence external behaviour in subtle ways that we are not consciously aware of. 2.  The instinctive way that feeling "confident" changes behaviour and mannerisms is a way that is generally attractive to women.  (And the way that feeling insecure and lacking self confidences generally makes us appear is very unattractive.) 3.  This feedback is pretty universal in human beings, even the ones who want to believe they are very logical creatures.  It’s almost impossible to separate the internal from external parts.  (Even good actors need to use techniques of getting themselves to feel the emotions they’re portraying, either by "method acting", which is imagining themselves in a situation where they feel the right emotion, or invoking that emotion more directly.)

Response:

Sorry, bald-faced liar. I’m still in shock having seen all those celebs without makeup!

Response:

William P <d…@email.me> wrote in message <news:Xns9343EEEDDF1B8williamp@206.172.150.13>… > The classic party line is that there is no difference.  I see a bit of a > difference, and would say that to me:  Confidence means you perceive > yourself to be very capable.  Arrogance means you are very interested in > having other people seeing you as capable (maybe this is much more > important than actually being capable), and also an element of showing > contempt for other people who aren’t as capable.

  The problem with this is that, not so long ago, there was a very long thread between me, Marc Meunier, and Allen Cybluskie about how the word ‘confidence’, as used in ‘confidence is attractive’, doesn’t actually mean much about your perception of yourself.  If it did, you could attract by being confident that you’d be approached by women.   The contention was that the confidence had to be visible to others in order to be attractive.  In other words, it had to be obvious to others that you were confident.  In other words, it would be arrogance by your definition above.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P wrote: > MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in > news:7cfd37d2.0303231111.f9afe9e@posting.google.com: > > William P. I think that is a pretty good characterization. > > I would add that most confident people are also confident enough to > > know that they don’t have all the answers to every little thing in > > life. > > What I mean by that is, they are very confident in themselves, and > > also confident in realizing their own limitations. And they don’t see > > the fact that they don’t know " everything " as something that takes > > away from their confidence. > > Arrogant people on the other hand, see themselves as perfect in every > > way, and without any deficiencies whatsoever. They are also more > > likely to brag about themselves. A confident person, has enough faith > > in their own abilities that they don’t go out and try to prove their > > greatness to everyone they meet. > > But then that begs another question. Are all arrogant people > > necesarily > > " confident " people ? > Just because I wasn’t cynical enough in that last post, there isn’t any question in my > mind that in the real world, arrogance is almost always more useful than confidence.   > (It usually doesn’t matter as much whether you are actually good at something and know > it, if you are able to demonstrate to other people that you are…  and enjoy going it > frequently!)  This is certainly true with attracting women as well as getting > employment and being successful at many jobs, for instance.

Of course when your arrogance leads the company into financial disaster, you must also know how to deflect the blame. So being a bold faced liar helps too.

Response:

"Mike" <MrStron…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739@posting.google.com… > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > confident. > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > other. > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > confident person ? > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? > What kinds of behaviors or actions ?

Confidence is arrogance with better marketing.

Response:

MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in message <news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739@posting.google.com>… > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > confident person ?

It depends on whether one is looking at another person or oneself. For a shy person, confidence will feel, at least at first, like arrogance.

Response:

I think when somebody’s confidence crosses into intruding on or disrespecting other people, it’s arrogant. Constantly butting in, trying to claim more than their share, talking down to people, poking fun (unprovoked) at someone’s flaws with or without (but especially with) an audience present. Also Arrogant people EXPECT things to go how they want them to. If their "confidence" doesn’t pan them the gold they’re looking for, they get more upset and act immature about it, possibly upping their aggressiveness on the matter.  They don’t know how to concede. Confident people are optimistic, but don’t really expect everything to be (made) how they want them. I think I was gonna say something else, but I don’t know what.

Response:

MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in message <news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739@posting.google.com>… > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > confident. > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > other. > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > confident person ? > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? > What kinds of behaviors or actions ?

I don’t think it is all that hard to tell them apart. A confident person knows they are capable of doing something well (job, social interactions etc). An arrogant person knows they can do it well but also feels the need to flaunt that fact. It’s not enough that they know they are better than you in some regard but they are not content unless you fully realize this as well. In the world of boxing… Confident – Evander Holyfield Arrogant –  Muhammad Ali (during his in-ring days) An arrogant person has to have confidence but a confident person is not always arrogant.

Response:

baboonjr: >In the world of boxing… >Confident – Evander Holyfield >Arrogant –  Muhammad Ali (during his in-ring days)

Interesting example, in that the opinion of most boxing historians, Muhammed Ali was a much better fighter than Holyfield… does this relate to your opinion, or is it merely coincidence? Curious, Smoo

Response:

On 20 Mar 2003 11:19:21 -0800, baboo…@hotmail.com (Brian Thompson) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in message <news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739@posting.google.com>… >> I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or >> confident. >> Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the >> other. >> How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a >> confident person ? >> What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? >> What kinds of behaviors or actions ? >I don’t think it is all that hard to tell them apart. >A confident person knows they are capable of doing something well >(job, social interactions etc). >An arrogant person knows they can do it well but also feels the need >to flaunt that fact. It’s not enough that they know they are better >than you in some regard but they are not content unless you fully >realize this as well. >In the world of boxing… >Confident – Evander Holyfield >Arrogant –  Muhammad Ali (during his in-ring days) >An arrogant person has to have confidence but a confident person is >not always arrogant.

 webster gave this definition for arrogance. a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims

Response:

vanillasm00…@aol.com (VanillaSm00thy) wrote in message <news:20030321022507.16191.00000400@mb-mo.aol.com>… > baboonjr: > >In the world of boxing… > >Confident – Evander Holyfield > >Arrogant –  Muhammad Ali (during his in-ring days) > Interesting example, in that the opinion of most boxing historians, Muhammed > Ali was a much better fighter than Holyfield… does this relate to your > opinion, or is it merely coincidence? > Curious, > Smoo

No it does not. Thats part of the reason I chose fighters from two different eras. The only thing I saw they had in common was they were two great fighters. One was confident and dominated his opposition and the other was confident and arrogant but also dominated his competition. With all of this boxing talk I feel like getting one of those Muhammad Ali "First Round, First Minute" posters. Where he’s standing over a knocked out Sonny Liston. http://www.gdaysport.com.au/gday_extended_paginator.php?zproduct_id=m…

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baboo…@hotmail.com (Brian Thompson) wrote in news:7d36358a.0303201119.6da747f6@posting.google.com: > An arrogant person knows they can do it well but also feels the need > to flaunt that fact. It’s not enough that they know they are better > than you in some regard but they are not content unless you fully > realize this as well. > In the world of boxing… > Confident – Evander Holyfield > Arrogant –  Muhammad Ali (during his in-ring days)

You have to be kidding me!  Remember that first Holyfield-Lewis fight where he was swearing up and down that God told him he’d score a knockout in round three (and seemed genuinely surprised when it didn’t happen), and he came into the ring singing some kind of Christian music and acting like he was the shit, while Lewis was totally stone cold and concentrated.

Response:

William P. I think that is a pretty good characterization. I would add that most confident people are also confident enough to know that they don’t have all the answers to every little thing in life. What I mean by that is, they are very confident in themselves, and also confident in realizing their own limitations. And they don’t see the fact that they don’t know " everything " as something that takes away from their confidence. Arrogant people on the other hand, see themselves as perfect in every way, and without any deficiencies whatsoever. They are also more likely to brag about themselves. A confident person, has enough faith in their own abilities that they don’t go out and try to prove their greatness to everyone they meet. But then that begs another question. Are all arrogant people necesarily " confident " people ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P <d…@email.me> wrote in message <news:Xns9343EEEDDF1B8williamp@206.172.150.13>… > MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739 > @posting.google.com: > > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > > confident. > > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > > other. > > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > > confident person ? > > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? > > What kinds of behaviors or actions ? > The classic party line is that there is no difference.  I see a bit of a > difference, and would say that to me:  Confidence means you perceive > yourself to be very capable.  Arrogance means you are very interested in > having other people seeing you as capable (maybe this is much more > important than actually being capable), and also an element of showing > contempt for other people who aren’t as capable.

Response:

Hotep, your definition is a very good one I think. Of the people I’ve known in my life that I considered arrogant, they acted pretty close to how you described the arrogant quality. I think a confident person will have faith in their own abilities without showing disdain for the abilities of others. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hotep <nospamdavepfs…@spamBigfooTspammyspam.com> wrote in message <news:b5cdgo$g0n$1@news.hawaii.edu>… > I think when somebody’s confidence crosses into intruding on or > disrespecting other people, it’s arrogant. > Constantly butting in, trying to claim more than their share, > talking down to people, poking fun (unprovoked) at someone’s > flaws with or without (but especially with) an audience present. > Also > Arrogant people EXPECT things to go how they want them to. > If their "confidence" doesn’t pan them the gold they’re looking > for, they get more upset and act immature about it, possibly > upping their aggressiveness on the matter.  They don’t know how > to concede. > Confident people are optimistic, but don’t really expect > everything to be (made) how they want them. > I think I was gonna say something else, but I don’t know what.

Response:

Brian said " An arrogant person knows they can do it well but also feels the need to flaunt that fact. It’s not enough that they know they are better than you in some regard but they are not content unless you fully realize this as well. " That begs another question. Is the arrogant person truly a confident person ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -baboo…@hotmail.com (Brian Thompson) wrote in message <news:7d36358a.0303201119.6da747f6@posting.google.com>… > MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in message <news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739@posting.google.com>… > > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > > confident. > > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > > other. > > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > > confident person ? > > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? > > What kinds of behaviors or actions ? > I don’t think it is all that hard to tell them apart. > A confident person knows they are capable of doing something well > (job, social interactions etc). > An arrogant person knows they can do it well but also feels the need > to flaunt that fact. It’s not enough that they know they are better > than you in some regard but they are not content unless you fully > realize this as well. > In the world of boxing… > Confident – Evander Holyfield > Arrogant –  Muhammad Ali (during his in-ring days) > An arrogant person has to have confidence but a confident person is > not always arrogant.

Response:

I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or confident. Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the other. How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a confident person ? What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? What kinds of behaviors or actions ?

Response:

Mike wrote: > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > confident. > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > other. > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > confident person ? > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? > What kinds of behaviors or actions ?

they are basically the same thing. If you like the person you label it confidence, if you don’t you label it arrogance. -M

Response:

"Mike" <MrStron…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739@posting.google.com… > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > confident. > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > other.

You have to think like a woman then: A good looking guy she actually wants to date = CONFIDENT An unattractive guy she needs a "non shallow" reason to reject = ARROGANT I hate how women talk about lack of confidence as though its the most unattractive thing possible. It’s a total smokescreen for being shallow and nothing else. The way they crap on about it, they’d rather some abusive drug dealing jerk who’s confident than the sweetest guy on earth with self esteem problems. No matter how nice a guy is, you can’t expect him to be "confident" when he always gets rejected and put down by women – and there’s their loophole, because "confident" guys are the ones women are nice to and have plenty of girlfriends, because they are good looking or rich or both. Any time a girl starts crapping on about "confidence" just realise that she’s shallow and deceitful, nothing else.

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MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739 @posting.google.com: > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > confident. > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > other. > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > confident person ? > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? > What kinds of behaviors or actions ?

The classic party line is that there is no difference.  I see a bit of a difference, and would say that to me:  Confidence means you perceive yourself to be very capable.  Arrogance means you are very interested in having other people seeing you as capable (maybe this is much more important than actually being capable), and also an element of showing contempt for other people who aren’t as capable.

Response:

William P <d…@email.me> wrote in message

news:Xns9343EEEDDF1B8williamp@206.172.150.13… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> MrStron…@hotmail.com (Mike) wrote in news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739 > @posting.google.com: > > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > > confident. > > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > > other. > > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > > confident person ? > > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? > > What kinds of behaviors or actions ? > The classic party line is that there is no difference.  I see a bit of a > difference, and would say that to me:  Confidence means you perceive > yourself to be very capable.  Arrogance means you are very interested in > having other people seeing you as capable (maybe this is much more > important than actually being capable), and also an element of showing > contempt for other people who aren’t as capable.

wow…(Worthy Of Webster).

Response:

"Mike" <MrStron…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:7cfd37d2.0303191701.61c06739@posting.google.com… > I’m sure we’ve all known people we thought of as arrogant or > confident. > Sometimes though, I think some of us have trouble telling one from the > other. > How do you guys tell the difference between an arrogant person or a > confident person ? > What kinds of things are usually evident in an arrogant person ? > What kinds of behaviors or actions ?

Confidence is arrogance with compassionate limits.

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