Act Acting » Method Acting » Last night…

Last night…

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If only life were so simple. I’ve got this working theory going right now (I came up with it while I was waiting for this e-mail to load in my composition window).  Mathematically speaking, it’d be something like this:  ce=l — where complexity is c, easiness is e, and life is l.  It could be stated in another way that the complexity of life is inversely proportional to the easiness of life.  That is, life can be simple if it is hard, and it can be easy if it’s complicated. It may not work, but it was fun figuring out how to say it. Anyhow, I do think that many times we try to make things more complicated than they really are — frequently, like Dorothy, we find our answers in our own back yard. First I do not like ignoring people. Nor do I.  But I dislike getting into unsafe places even more. Second I do not like being ignored. I don’t either, but I do prefer it to some things. Third what is wrong with us, is the majority of us have been abused in some way, causes a few problems don’t you know. A few problems that none of us know.  We’re all broken — I’ve never met a person who wasn’t broken at least a little bit somewhere for some reason. Fourth we have lives, we have fought for many years to get what we have now. Which is a good thing. Fifth my abuse began when I began elementary school, so sometimes I feel like I am, and allow myself to behave and react in that manner. Which is a choice you can make — one option, as one of my co-facilitators would say. And finally, triggers are there whatever you do, we cannot hide from things, it is not the real world if we do. Right.  But triggers really are our friends — they tell us more about ourselves than almost anything.  Big digging in to a good trigger, you can get to some really meaty stuff pretty quickly. Thanks for you words, it made me think. They were good words.  And thinking is good. Yours were too.  They made me think about expressing a philosophical point mathematically. Well, they were good anyhow. Sera Take care, Blain —

This is to two people I really like to listen to. This probably doesn’t make sense to anyone but me. But….When I went to the last family gathering I came away without anger and tears. For the first time I felt like I was "okey".  Why? Because the attitudes, comments to me or about me did not "trigger" me. How did this happen? I looked at my family from a sociological viewpoint. The family dynamics, the roles, the psych-social views were very obvious for the first time. It wasn’t about "me" it was about how they viewed the world. I didn’t fit into what they considered "proper". This probably sounds like "Huh" or Duh or what is she talking about? What it meant to me was I was free and I really did feel like doing cartwheels for the whole week I got back. And when I talk to my 87 year old mother there is no strain. I just talk aboout the weather which is the only safe and proper topic for her. Mary

Response:

Non destructive to who?  Child, you need to grow up alot, anfd you are both too young and too…green…for me to continue arguning with. Bye.

Please do not refer to me as ‘child.’  I am not your child, or even -a- child, and I haven’t been one for quite some time.  And you don’t know me or Taz well enough to know if we’re too young or too green for anything.  As I’m still trying to undo the effects of growing up too fast, ‘growing up a lot’ is not on my agenda.  Besides, ‘green’ is Alan’s special word for flames and it’s already been used on me, try a new color.. ;) Ansel ~~~~~ Tell me why you want to be blind I don’t want to be normal like you

Response:

If only life were so simple.

I’ve got this working theory going right now (I came up with it while I was waiting for this e-mail to load in my composition window).  Mathematically speaking, it’d be something like this:  ce=l — where complexity is c, easiness is e, and life is l.  It could be stated in another way that the complexity of life is inversely proportional to the easiness of life.  That is, life can be simple if it is hard, and it can be easy if it’s complicated. It may not work, but it was fun figuring out how to say it. Anyhow, I do think that many times we try to make things more complicated than they really are — frequently, like Dorothy, we find our answers in our own back yard. First I do not like ignoring people.

Nor do I.  But I dislike getting into unsafe places even more. Second I do not like being ignored.

I don’t either, but I do prefer it to some things. Third what is wrong with us, is the majority of us have been abused in some way, causes a few problems don’t you know.

A few problems that none of us know.  We’re all broken — I’ve never met a person who wasn’t broken at least a little bit somewhere for some reason.   Fourth we have lives, we have fought for many years to get what we have now.

Which is a good thing. Fifth my abuse began when I began elementary school, so sometimes I feel like I am, and allow myself to behave and react in that manner.

Which is a choice you can make — one option, as one of my co-facilitators would say. And finally, triggers are there whatever you do, we cannot hide from things, it is not the real world if we do.

Right.  But triggers really are our friends — they tell us more about ourselves than almost anything.  Big digging in to a good trigger, you can get to some really meaty stuff pretty quickly. Thanks for you words, it made me think.

They were good words.  And thinking is good. Yours were too.  They made me think about expressing a philosophical point mathematically. Well, they were good anyhow. Sera

Take care, Blain —                http://home.att.net/~blainn/abuse/

Response:

Ok, pardon me, el~neno. WHAT IS WRONG!

As fair a fight as this would be, Julia my crazy pal, ah let it go. Gees the mail i sent you was returned, something about you beating up the aol postmaster? Wants a matter, don’t like me any more? Anyway that was very sweet and my niece is getting well thank you!! Do you do snow hugs? Season’s greetings spike

Response:

If only life were so simple. First I do not like ignoring people. Second I do not like being ignored. Third what is wrong with us, is the majority of us have been abused in some way, causes a few problems don’t you know. Fourth we have lives, we have fought for many years to get what we have now. Fifth my abuse began when I began elementary school, so sometimes I feel like I am, and allow myself to behave and react in that manner. And finally, triggers are there whatever you do, we cannot hide from things, it is not the real world if we do. Thanks for you words, it made me think. Sera – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, pardon me.  I’m really sorry if this sounds unlike my usual banter, but if I don’t say it, I’m going to explode. You’re fighting over a CHAT ROOM.  HEEEEELLLLOOOOOOO!!!!!!  I feel like I’m in elementary school all over again.  "Suzy wouldn’t let us play, so we went and played by ourselves, and then Suzy and her friends came and bothered us! Tell them to STOP!" GET LIVES!  There’s no recess here, there’s no potty breaks, you can wipe your own noses.  When you start getting this petty and this stupid, NO ONE IS TRIGGERING YOU!  YOU ARE TRIGGERING *YOURSELVES* BY ALLOWING YOURSELF TO GET SO DEEPLY INVOLVED IN SOMETHING SO AMAZINGLY CHILDISH. You know, that’s the great thing about the internet.  Don’t like someone? Fine, put them on killfile.  Don’t like people in a chatroom?   Go to another one and put your "enemies" on ignore.  So instead of sitting around "triggering" each other all the time, why don’t you ignore each other?  If it’s not there to read, it’s not there to hurt you.  Pretty simple math, if you ask me.  There’s people on the internet who *I* can’t stand.  Ok, fine, so I don’t waste my time with them.  Once I learned that, my life got so much better, you’d be amazed.  Tenacity- what are you?  Six years old?  Please, please, PLEASE, I am BEGGING YOU….GO GET A LIFE! -Julie I’m going crazy a little everyday And everything I wanted is now driving me away…             -Sheryl Crow

Response:

Ok I have one more thing to say:<

NO!  I for one, am just shocked….*wry g* I did try, and I’m done trying.<

Crap, and let’s hope so. We were screwing around and having a bit of fun, at your expense.  We blew off

some steam, in a mostly nondestructive manner.  Sue me.  I apologized, what do you want?  A gold plated certificate?< Non destructive to who?  Child, you need to grow up alot, anfd you are both too young and too…green…for me to continue arguning with. Bye.

Response:

Ok, pardon me.  I’m really sorry if this sounds unlike my usual banter, but if I don’t say it, I’m going to explode. You’re fighting over a CHAT ROOM.  HEEEEELLLLOOOOOOO!!!!!!  I feel like I’m in elementary school all over again.  "Suzy wouldn’t let us play, so we went and played by ourselves, and then Suzy and her friends came and bothered us!  Tell them to STOP!"   GET LIVES!  There’s no recess here, there’s no potty breaks, you can wipe your own noses.  When you start getting this petty and this stupid, NO ONE IS TRIGGERING YOU!  YOU ARE TRIGGERING *YOURSELVES* BY ALLOWING YOURSELF TO GET SO DEEPLY INVOLVED IN SOMETHING SO AMAZINGLY CHILDISH. You know, that’s the great thing about the internet.  Don’t like someone? Fine, put them on killfile.  Don’t like people in a chatroom?   Go to another one and put your "enemies" on ignore.  So instead of sitting around "triggering" each other all the time, why don’t you ignore each other?  If it’s not there to read, it’s not there to hurt you.  Pretty simple math, if you ask me.  There’s people on the internet who *I* can’t stand.  Ok, fine, so I don’t waste my time with them.  Once I learned that, my life got so much better, you’d be amazed.  Tenacity- what are you?  Six years old?  Please, please, PLEASE, I am BEGGING YOU….GO GET A LIFE!   -Julie I’m going crazy a little everyday And everything I wanted is now driving me away…              -Sheryl Crow

Response:

OH I have done it now!!!!!! Ok I shall give it a go… if I write something up and send it through somehow, you can tell me or someone can…. how useless I am at doing this kind of thing… I want to do this, so I shall… but as I have little knowlege of doing web pages…..  I am not sure how it will turn out, I shall keep it simple as I know space is tight….  Thanks for letting me do this Panther.. I shall try and get it done, but don’t want to rush myself at the moment with the holidays coming… Sera. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s not a bad idea sera :-) We could but the instructions up at our Asarian-host.org server. Mark and I added the irc server a few months ago but haven’t had the time to let anyone know about it. Would you like to write up a page for it?  We could also put a link to the mirc download site.  Any other ideas? Panther Panther I think it depends on the irc Client used. with Mirc the best thing to do is to just add a new server with asarian-host.org being the name of it. Maybe we should get some step by step help pages together…… Sera. Panther, thank you very much for letting us use your server. I did what you said, and typed /asarian-host.org, but it tells me it can’t resolve the irc server…what am I doing wrong? — hummmmmmm, not sure.  how about I’ll meet you over in aar on efnet for a few minutes and we’ll msg in a box and try to see what you need to do.  Sera was able to get it up and running and I was over there for a while. I’ll log on to #aar Efnet and see what we can do ok? Panther C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN — C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

That’s not a bad idea sera :-)         We could but the instructions up at our Asarian-host.org server.         Mark and I added the irc server a few months ago but haven’t had the time to let anyone know about it.         Would you like to write up a page for it?  We could also put a link to the mirc download site.  Any other ideas?         Panther – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Panther I think it depends on the irc Client used. with Mirc the best thing to do is to just add a new server with asarian-host.org being the name of it. Maybe we should get some step by step help pages together…… Sera. Panther, thank you very much for letting us use your server. I did what you said, and typed /asarian-host.org, but it tells me it can’t resolve the irc server…what am I doing wrong? — hummmmmmm, not sure.  how about I’ll meet you over in aar on efnet for a few minutes and we’ll msg in a box and try to see what you need to do.  Sera was able to get it up and running and I was over there for a while. I’ll log on to #aar Efnet and see what we can do ok? Panther C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

– C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

Ok I have one more thing to say: Jean and I were talking in the channel, #aar, and Pat started her usual crap. Then Taz came to me privately and started HERS. Jean and I were told, directly and indirectly, that we were not welcome in #aar and we should find another place to talk.  Pat took away our ability to speak in the ng (Carey gave it back) and when we did not leave on our own, Taz

kicked Actually I gave it back once too, interesting how that gets forgotten. Interesting how one of the very few people that night who -tried- to understand and tried to settle things down is now made to be the guilty party.  I did try, and I’m done trying. [snip] But ok…you do that, so Jean and I have another channel where WE will feel safe posting, and you come there TOO and not only relate every word we write, but then make it absolutely impossible for any conversation to go on?  And you want to convince people YOU have been wronged, that YOU are on the defensive? By coming to the channel WE started?  That’s defending?  What?  Taz and Ansel changed nicks no fewer than twenty times, and yes, I was livid.  And I got nasty, at #aar-free, defending the channel, our right to have it, and their NON right to ruin it.  Remember, we DID what was asked repeatedly.  We walked away from it all, and started our own channel which should have been safe for us and anyone who felt like we did.  They followed us.  They kept it going when we walked away.

And like the big girl that I am, I apologized for acting my age.  And no, that’s not a typo.. I was acting my age.  However I find it quite sickening that one of the youngest people in that room at the time had to ask the entire channel to act their age.  No one here is innocent, not even me.  And no one here is winning.  The least we could do is act like adults. Cause I’m tired of hearing the "She started it" bullshit.  (And yes, that’s a direct quote from that night) It doesn’t matter who started it, the most important thing is who decides to act mature and ends it. I learned alot last night about these people.  I learned about liars, and sneaks..people who lie to you about who they are to glean information they could not get honestly, people who have been using Jean and I as scapegoats for thier own sick and troubled behavior because THEY clearly followed us, I learned that Jean and I do not even have to be in the room for the shit to start.  What is pissing these people off is our *existence* and that’s too bad.  Neither Jean nor I intend to kill ourselves to salve your wounded fannies, folks.

We were screwing around and having a bit of fun, at your expense.  We blew off some steam, in a mostly nondestructive manner.  Sue me.  I apologized, what do you want?  A gold plated certificate? I know now, unequivocally, that neither Jean nor I are the problem.  Pat, Crisis, Buff…and sadly, very sadly Taz, the only person here who has really managed to hurt me, you are all very sick people, and in need of intensive therapy.  You need alot of help or alot of meds or something to help you control youro bsessive stalking behavior that has made you decide that Jean and I are open targets for you to do with as you wish and will.  I urge you all to get help…alot of help, befopre this incredible sinckness spills out into your real lives, assuming it hasn’t already, and you do real damage.

What you see and find so distasteful in someone else, you may often find within yourself. Lastly, I had been thinking about whether or not it was possible for me to simply walk away from all of this, let them make their snide remarks and yada yada yada…but youshowed me last night that it is NOT possible for me to simply walk away.  You intend to follow, and to keep it going even when we are not in your channel.  So you will have to deal with me, and you can explain to everyone in this ng and on channel why when Jean and I DID try to walk away, you made it impossible for us, and why you kept it all going.  YOU.  Not us.

I will not follow you any longer. And I will not be swayed, and I don’t believe alot of other people will anymore either about how your anger or pain caused you to do this.  That’s bullshit. You don’t get to use it as your excuse anymore.

Ok, so what’s your excuse.  I don’t have one and I readily admit that. Ansel – who is done with this for good.

Response:

Type /server asarian-host.org         Sorry about that :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Panther, thank you very much for letting us use your server. I did what you said, and typed /asarian-host.org, but it tells me it can’t resolve the irc server…what am I doing wrong? —         hummmmmmm, not sure.  how about I’ll meet you over in aar on efnet for a few minutes and we’ll msg in a box and try to see what you need to do.  Sera was able to get it up and running and I was over there for a while. I’ll log on to #aar Efnet and see what we can do ok?         Panther C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

– C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

Panther, thank you very much for letting us use your server. I did what you said, and typed /asarian-host.org, but it tells me it can’t resolve the irc server…what am I doing wrong?

Response:

Panther I think it depends on the irc Client used. with Mirc the best thing to do is to just add a new server with asarian-host.org being the name of it. Maybe we should get some step by step help pages together…… Sera. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Panther, thank you very much for letting us use your server. I did what you said, and typed /asarian-host.org, but it tells me it can’t resolve the irc server…what am I doing wrong? — hummmmmmm, not sure.  how about I’ll meet you over in aar on efnet for a few minutes and we’ll msg in a box and try to see what you need to do.  Sera was able to get it up and running and I was over there for a while. I’ll log on to #aar Efnet and see what we can do ok? Panther C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

Panther, thank you very much for letting us use your server. I did what you said, and typed /asarian-host.org, but it tells me it can’t resolve the irc server…what am I doing wrong?

–         hummmmmmm, not sure.  how about I’ll meet you over in aar on efnet for a few minutes and we’ll msg in a box and try to see what you need to do.  Sera was able to get it up and running and I was over there for a while. I’ll log on to #aar Efnet and see what we can do ok?         Panther C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

Hayley… come and chat with me!  icq or #asarian!!!! Sera. giggles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – me thinks i am going to start up my own channel as well :-) howsabout #ilovexmasshopping. anyone feel free to join it is not maodertaed and has no rules no bans no anything :-) perhaps no people in there but it will be there if you want it to be lol bored hayley  Never forget your secrets safe with me  Just look at all the wonderful people  Trying to forget they had to pay for what you see Star people- George Micheal

Response:

me thinks i am going to start up my own channel as well :-) howsabout #ilovexmasshopping. anyone feel free to join it is not maodertaed and has no rules no bans no anything :-) perhaps no people in there but it will be there if you want it to be lol bored hayley   Never forget your secrets safe with me   Just look at all the wonderful people   Trying to forget they had to pay for what you see Star people- George Micheal

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sorry this happened to you and Jean last night.         I’m sorry you and Jean were not able to have a good time on the channel you had set up.         I can offer you a safe channel for those you would like to get to know better, where things can be a more sedate if you want it.         If you want than instead of logging onto an Efnet server type the following:    /asarian-host.org         You can then set up a channel name for yourself and password it.  Only give the password to ppl you know and respect.  You can also limit the number of people who can get into your channel.  I’ll have Mark talk to you about some of the other features you can use to feel safe.         I hope that you are able to have a calmer holiday season than what is occuring now.         Panther Panther and Tenacity and Jean…please let me know about any new talk channel if you do what Panther says. Mary

–Hi Mary,         It looks like Sera would like to start one up.  It’s really only just a matter of deciding when you want to talk and then just showing up under the channel name that Sera decides on.         Hope to see you there too. (I’m still pretty much of an evening person though when it comes to irc chat <g) Panther C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

Hi Sera,         Yes I think it would be very pleasant if you did that.         I’ll let mark know also by copying this to him.  If you need any help you can email me and I’ll walk you through it.  You can pick any name you like :-)         And yes I most assuredly will visit you there :-) My pleasure. I hope you get get lots of friends and newbies to use it :-)         Panther – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Panther. And all, due to many problems I am having logging onto an efnet server, I have decided if it is ok.  To start a chat on asarain. I am looking for a name, at the moment it is simply asarian. I hope some join me……  my friends, anyone. Panther, Mark…. any advice…. or anything would be most welcome. Sera. I’m sorry this happened to you and Jean last night. I’m sorry you and Jean were not able to have a good time on the channel you had set up. I can offer you a safe channel for those you would like to get to know better, where things can be a more sedate if you want it. If you want than instead of logging onto an Efnet server type the following:    /asarian-host.org You can then set up a channel name for yourself and password it.  Only give the password to ppl you know and respect.  You can also limit the number of people who can get into your channel.  I’ll have Mark talk to you about some of the other features you can use to feel safe. I hope that you are able to have a calmer holiday season than what is occuring now. Panther Jean and I were talking in the channel, #aar, and Pat started her usual crap. Then Taz came to me privately and started HERS. Jean and I were told, directly and indirectly, that we were not welcome in #aar and we should find another place to talk.  Pat took away our ability to speak in the ng (Carey gave it back) and when we did not leave on our own, Taz kicked us and banned us.  The rationale for this was that they believed we were ruinging THEIR channel for everyone, and they did not want to fight, and that if Jean and I were gone, the fighting would stop. Ok.  We started our own channel, and the minute we did, they came over there and started fighting with us.  Taz and Ansel, and at one point at least two other members of the ‘clique that time forgot’ crashed our ng, at first posting in new nicks and acting like they weren’t anyone we knew (we asked them directly and they lied), and then when I kicked and banned them both, because someone in the new channel was relating info from there to the other channel, they began to come back again and again and again, refusing to go away, making it impossible for a conversation to take place at all.  I moderated the channel, and they reduced to tryiong to communicate with me in nine letter nicks, someof which were kind of really…well….sickly obsessive and sad. They then went back to #aar and began to relate the story there, laughing. This infuriates me.  IF what these people wanted was for the fighting to stop, and IF all that needed to occur was getting rid of Jean and I, WHY both follow us back to the new channel and relate every word we said in the old one? HOW is that ridding the old channel of our presence or calming things down or stopping a fight, or in taz’s words, making the old channel safe for the other posters?  Why ban me because you think I am causing all this trouble if, when I leave and start a new channel, you are going to follow me and post every word I write to all the old people you were saying you were protecting by shutting me and Jean up? And how dare you make it impossible for jean and I to have a channel where WE would feel safe?  When rosee started #aar-haven, she said the point was NOT to be rid of me, but to create a place where anyone who wanted to be free of the abusiveness in #aar could be and feel safe.  She told me yesterday that included me and Jean.  Yet in #aar-haven, Crisis called me sick and obsessive, even though i did not say a word to her or about her there, asked why anyone would be so sick as to want to be where they are not welcome (aar-haven), etc. that abusiveness was neither stopped nor remarked upon, and *I* was banned from the channel, and then the channel was set up so you could only enter with a key.  Pat did this. But ok…you do that, so Jean and I have another channel where WE will feel safe posting, and you come there TOO and not only relate every word we write, but then make it absolutely impossible for any conversation to go on? And you want to convince people YOU have been wronged, that YOU are on the defensive? By coming to the channel WE started?  That’s defending?  What?  Taz and Ansel changed nicks no fewer than twenty times, and yes, I was livid.  And I got nasty, at #aar-free, defending the channel, our right to have it, and their NON right to ruin it.  Remember, we DID what was asked repeatedly.  We walked away from it all, and started our own channel which should have been safe for us and anyone who felt like we did.  They followed us.  They kept it going when we walked away. I learned alot last night about these people.  I learned about liars, and sneaks..people who lie to you about who they are to glean information they could not get honestly, people who have been using Jean and I as scapegoats for thier own sick and troubled behavior because THEY clearly followed us, I learned that Jean and I do not even have to be in the room for the shit to start.  What is pissing these people off is our *existence* and that’s too bad.  Neither Jean nor I intend to kill ourselves to salve your wounded fannies, folks. I know now, unequivocally, that neither Jean nor I are the problem.  Pat, Crisis, Buff…and sadly, very sadly Taz, the only person here who has really managed to hurt me, you are all very sick people, and in need of intensive therapy.  You need alot of help or alot of meds or something to help you control youro bsessive stalking behavior that has made you decide that Jean and I are open targets for you to do with as you wish and will.  I urge you all to get help…alot of help, befopre this incredible sinckness spills out into your real lives, assuming it hasn’t already, and you do real damage. Lastly, I had been thinking about whether or not it was possible for me to simply walk away from all of this, let them make their snide remarks and yada yada yada…but youshowed me last night that it is NOT possible for me to simply walk away.  You intend to follow, and to keep it going even when we are not in your channel.  So you will have to deal with me, and you can explain to everyone in this ng and on channel why when Jean and I DID try to walk away, you made it impossible for us, and why you kept it all going.  YOU.  Not us. And I will not be swayed, and I don’t believe alot of other people will anymore either about how your anger or pain caused you to do this.  That’s bullshit. You don’t get to use it as your excuse anymore. — C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

– C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sorry this happened to you and Jean last night.         I’m sorry you and Jean were not able to have a good time on the channel you had set up.         I can offer you a safe channel for those you would like to get to know better, where things can be a more sedate if you want it.         If you want than instead of logging onto an Efnet server type the following:    /asarian-host.org         You can then set up a channel name for yourself and password it.  Only give the password to ppl you know and respect.  You can also limit the number of people who can get into your channel.  I’ll have Mark talk to you about some of the other features you can use to feel safe.         I hope that you are able to have a calmer holiday season than what is occuring now.         Panther

Panther and Tenacity and Jean…please let me know about any new talk channel if you do what Panther says. Mary

Response:

(Tenacity9) writes: So you will have to deal with me,

No I don’t and wont.  For me it is truly over.  Please hear that. Crisis

Response:

Panther. And all, due to many problems I am having logging onto an efnet server, I have decided if it is ok.  To start a chat on asarain. I am looking for a name, at the moment it is simply asarian. I hope some join me……  my friends, anyone. Panther, Mark…. any advice…. or anything would be most welcome. Sera. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sorry this happened to you and Jean last night. I’m sorry you and Jean were not able to have a good time on the channel you had set up. I can offer you a safe channel for those you would like to get to know better, where things can be a more sedate if you want it. If you want than instead of logging onto an Efnet server type the following:    /asarian-host.org You can then set up a channel name for yourself and password it.  Only give the password to ppl you know and respect.  You can also limit the number of people who can get into your channel.  I’ll have Mark talk to you about some of the other features you can use to feel safe. I hope that you are able to have a calmer holiday season than what is occuring now. Panther Jean and I were talking in the channel, #aar, and Pat started her usual crap. Then Taz came to me privately and started HERS. Jean and I were told, directly and indirectly, that we were not welcome in #aar and we should find another place to talk.  Pat took away our ability to speak in the ng (Carey gave it back) and when we did not leave on our own, Taz kicked us and banned us.  The rationale for this was that they believed we were ruinging THEIR channel for everyone, and they did not want to fight, and that if Jean and I were gone, the fighting would stop. Ok.  We started our own channel, and the minute we did, they came over there and started fighting with us.  Taz and Ansel, and at one point at least two other members of the ‘clique that time forgot’ crashed our ng, at first posting in new nicks and acting like they weren’t anyone we knew (we asked them directly and they lied), and then when I kicked and banned them both, because someone in the new channel was relating info from there to the other channel, they began to come back again and again and again, refusing to go away, making it impossible for a conversation to take place at all.  I moderated the channel, and they reduced to tryiong to communicate with me in nine letter nicks, someof which were kind of really…well….sickly obsessive and sad. They then went back to #aar and began to relate the story there, laughing. This infuriates me.  IF what these people wanted was for the fighting to stop, and IF all that needed to occur was getting rid of Jean and I, WHY both follow us back to the new channel and relate every word we said in the old one? HOW is that ridding the old channel of our presence or calming things down or stopping a fight, or in taz’s words, making the old channel safe for the other posters?  Why ban me because you think I am causing all this trouble if, when I leave and start a new channel, you are going to follow me and post every word I write to all the old people you were saying you were protecting by shutting me and Jean up? And how dare you make it impossible for jean and I to have a channel where WE would feel safe?  When rosee started #aar-haven, she said the point was NOT to be rid of me, but to create a place where anyone who wanted to be free of the abusiveness in #aar could be and feel safe.  She told me yesterday that included me and Jean.  Yet in #aar-haven, Crisis called me sick and obsessive, even though i did not say a word to her or about her there, asked why anyone would be so sick as to want to be where they are not welcome (aar-haven), etc. that abusiveness was neither stopped nor remarked upon, and *I* was banned from the channel, and then the channel was set up so you could only enter with a key.  Pat did this. But ok…you do that, so Jean and I have another channel where WE will feel safe posting, and you come there TOO and not only relate every word we write, but then make it absolutely impossible for any conversation to go on? And you want to convince people YOU have been wronged, that YOU are on the defensive? By coming to the channel WE started?  That’s defending?  What?  Taz and Ansel changed nicks no fewer than twenty times, and yes, I was livid.  And I got nasty, at #aar-free, defending the channel, our right to have it, and their NON right to ruin it.  Remember, we DID what was asked repeatedly.  We walked away from it all, and started our own channel which should have been safe for us and anyone who felt like we did.  They followed us.  They kept it going when we walked away. I learned alot last night about these people.  I learned about liars, and sneaks..people who lie to you about who they are to glean information they could not get honestly, people who have been using Jean and I as scapegoats for thier own sick and troubled behavior because THEY clearly followed us, I learned that Jean and I do not even have to be in the room for the shit to start.  What is pissing these people off is our *existence* and that’s too bad.  Neither Jean nor I intend to kill ourselves to salve your wounded fannies, folks. I know now, unequivocally, that neither Jean nor I are the problem.  Pat, Crisis, Buff…and sadly, very sadly Taz, the only person here who has really managed to hurt me, you are all very sick people, and in need of intensive therapy.  You need alot of help or alot of meds or something to help you control youro bsessive stalking behavior that has made you decide that Jean and I are open targets for you to do with as you wish and will.  I urge you all to get help…alot of help, befopre this incredible sinckness spills out into your real lives, assuming it hasn’t already, and you do real damage. Lastly, I had been thinking about whether or not it was possible for me to simply walk away from all of this, let them make their snide remarks and yada yada yada…but youshowed me last night that it is NOT possible for me to simply walk away.  You intend to follow, and to keep it going even when we are not in your channel.  So you will have to deal with me, and you can explain to everyone in this ng and on channel why when Jean and I DID try to walk away, you made it impossible for us, and why you kept it all going.  YOU.  Not us. And I will not be swayed, and I don’t believe alot of other people will anymore either about how your anger or pain caused you to do this.  That’s bullshit. You don’t get to use it as your excuse anymore. — C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

I’m sorry this happened to you and Jean last night.         I’m sorry you and Jean were not able to have a good time on the channel you had set up.           I can offer you a safe channel for those you would like to get to know better, where things can be a more sedate if you want it.         If you want than instead of logging onto an Efnet server type the following:    /asarian-host.org         You can then set up a channel name for yourself and password it.  Only give the password to ppl you know and respect.  You can also limit the number of people who can get into your channel.  I’ll have Mark talk to you about some of the other features you can use to feel safe.         I hope that you are able to have a calmer holiday season than what is occuring now.           Panther – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jean and I were talking in the channel, #aar, and Pat started her usual crap. Then Taz came to me privately and started HERS. Jean and I were told, directly and indirectly, that we were not welcome in #aar and we should find another place to talk.  Pat took away our ability to speak in the ng (Carey gave it back) and when we did not leave on our own, Taz kicked us and banned us.  The rationale for this was that they believed we were ruinging THEIR channel for everyone, and they did not want to fight, and that if Jean and I were gone, the fighting would stop. Ok.  We started our own channel, and the minute we did, they came over there and started fighting with us.  Taz and Ansel, and at one point at least two other members of the ‘clique that time forgot’ crashed our ng, at first posting in new nicks and acting like they weren’t anyone we knew (we asked them directly and they lied), and then when I kicked and banned them both, because someone in the new channel was relating info from there to the other channel, they began to come back again and again and again, refusing to go away, making it impossible for a conversation to take place at all.  I moderated the channel, and they reduced to tryiong to communicate with me in nine letter nicks, someof which were kind of really…well….sickly obsessive and sad. They then went back to #aar and began to relate the story there, laughing. This infuriates me.  IF what these people wanted was for the fighting to stop, and IF all that needed to occur was getting rid of Jean and I, WHY both follow us back to the new channel and relate every word we said in the old one?  HOW is that ridding the old channel of our presence or calming things down or stopping a fight, or in taz’s words, making the old channel safe for the other posters?  Why ban me because you think I am causing all this trouble if, when I leave and start a new channel, you are going to follow me and post every word I write to all the old people you were saying you were protecting by shutting me and Jean up? And how dare you make it impossible for jean and I to have a channel where WE would feel safe?  When rosee started #aar-haven, she said the point was NOT to be rid of me, but to create a place where anyone who wanted to be free of the abusiveness in #aar could be and feel safe.  She told me yesterday that included me and Jean.  Yet in #aar-haven, Crisis called me sick and obsessive, even though i did not say a word to her or about her there, asked why anyone would be so sick as to want to be where they are not welcome (aar-haven), etc. that abusiveness was neither stopped nor remarked upon, and *I* was banned from the channel, and then the channel was set up so you could only enter with a key.  Pat did this. But ok…you do that, so Jean and I have another channel where WE will feel safe posting, and you come there TOO and not only relate every word we write, but then make it absolutely impossible for any conversation to go on?  And you want to convince people YOU have been wronged, that YOU are on the defensive? By coming to the channel WE started?  That’s defending?  What?  Taz and Ansel changed nicks no fewer than twenty times, and yes, I was livid.  And I got nasty, at #aar-free, defending the channel, our right to have it, and their NON right to ruin it.  Remember, we DID what was asked repeatedly.  We walked away from it all, and started our own channel which should have been safe for us and anyone who felt like we did.  They followed us.  They kept it going when we walked away. I learned alot last night about these people.  I learned about liars, and sneaks..people who lie to you about who they are to glean information they could not get honestly, people who have been using Jean and I as scapegoats for thier own sick and troubled behavior because THEY clearly followed us, I learned that Jean and I do not even have to be in the room for the shit to start.  What is pissing these people off is our *existence* and that’s too bad.  Neither Jean nor I intend to kill ourselves to salve your wounded fannies, folks. I know now, unequivocally, that neither Jean nor I are the problem.  Pat, Crisis, Buff…and sadly, very sadly Taz, the only person here who has really managed to hurt me, you are all very sick people, and in need of intensive therapy.  You need alot of help or alot of meds or something to help you control youro bsessive stalking behavior that has made you decide that Jean and I are open targets for you to do with as you wish and will.  I urge you all to get help…alot of help, befopre this incredible sinckness spills out into your real lives, assuming it hasn’t already, and you do real damage. Lastly, I had been thinking about whether or not it was possible for me to simply walk away from all of this, let them make their snide remarks and yada yada yada…but youshowed me last night that it is NOT possible for me to simply walk away.  You intend to follow, and to keep it going even when we are not in your channel.  So you will have to deal with me, and you can explain to everyone in this ng and on channel why when Jean and I DID try to walk away, you made it impossible for us, and why you kept it all going.  YOU.  Not us. And I will not be swayed, and I don’t believe alot of other people will anymore either about how your anger or pain caused you to do this.  That’s bullshit. You don’t get to use it as your excuse anymore.

– C:DOS C:DOSRUN RUNDOSRUN

Response:

Correction: Pat took away our ability to speak

in the ng (Carey gave it back)< I meant in channel.

Response:

Hi Tenacity…    Shimon here… I’m sorry for this painful experience you related in your post; I can appreciate how frustrating that was, how morally outraged you felt, and how you feel unable to walk away from fighting. How you conduct yourself given the situation you perceive and the feelings you experience is in your hands, and I’m not about to present you any advice on how to proceed. But I did want to share my personal experience. (You just knew *something* was coming, eh?!) There have been times, many times, when I look to the newsgroups and I don’t see what I want.  I don’t read what I want to read [it's not there].  I see people wasting an inordinate amount of time on "stupid" things, "off-topic" things, "can’t-you-see-that’s-a-waste-of-time" things, etc etc etc. I have come to appreciate that for me there are two ways of responding to that state of affairs. One is to talk about it.  To engage people in the conversation, "I think that’s not the thing to talk about [or do]; rather, I think we should start doing what *I* want to do, namely the grand exchanges over X!". This approach has the merit of airing my feelings and may appeal to the logical or rational theory of interaction ("Let’s all agree on what we’re going to do and then do it.").  It suffers, however, from being ineffective, time-consuming, and ultimately self-defeating.  I end up in discussions (or arguments, I’ve seen others end up in flame wars) which are all meta-discussions about what the discussion should be about! Heh.  It’s ironic, except too sad and frustrating. The other method is to start *engaging* in the discussion I want to have.  If I want others to talk about trust, I start posting on it and ask for responses.  If I need to carry forth in rage about my mother, I just do it.  If I want to talk about G-d or ethics or the holidays, I post. Usually that is effective, in that I get to actually *do* what I want. I don’t need to have a discussion about "who wants to talk with me about X"; I just start talking about it. If others don’t respond…  well, then, the method of talking about "we oughta discuss X" wouldn’t have worked anyway, if you see what I mean. If people really don’t want to talk about something– they won’t. Sometimes if what I want to do is simply *connect* with people (like when people are fighting), I’ll just start a thread on something people enjoy talking about:  favorite movies, sayings, names, etc.  Or start a virtual event like a picnic or party. I have found that this active method of simply manifesting what it is I want has a satisfying appeal as well.  Much less intellectual and cerebral and more just doing. Anyway, that’s been my experience.  It may be of little use to you.  But included with it is my heartfelt wish for you to find what you need here. And IF the best way for you to do that is to think deeply on what you want and start making it happen here, well then maybe this post will have been doubly helpful. Shimon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jean and I were talking in the channel, #aar, and Pat started her usual crap. Then Taz came to me privately and started HERS. Jean and I were told, directly and indirectly, that we were not welcome in #aar and we should find another place to talk.  Pat took away our ability to speak in the ng (Carey gave it back) and when we did not leave on our own, Taz kicked us and banned us.  The rationale for this was that they believed we were ruinging THEIR channel for everyone, and they did not want to fight, and that if Jean and I were gone, the fighting would stop. Ok.  We started our own channel, and the minute we did, they came over there and started fighting with us.  Taz and Ansel, and at one point at least two other members of the ‘clique that time forgot’ crashed our ng, at first posting in new nicks and acting like they weren’t anyone we knew (we asked them directly and they lied), and then when I kicked and banned them both, because someone in the new channel was relating info from there to the other channel, they began to come back again and again and again, refusing to go away, making it impossible for a conversation to take place at all.  I moderated the channel, and they reduced to tryiong to communicate with me in nine letter nicks, someof which were kind of really…well….sickly obsessive and sad. They then went back to #aar and began to relate the story there, laughing. This infuriates me.  IF what these people wanted was for the fighting to stop, and IF all that needed to occur was getting rid of Jean and I, WHY both follow us back to the new channel and relate every word we said in the old one?  HOW is that ridding the old channel of our presence or calming things down or stopping a fight, or in taz’s words, making the old channel safe for the other posters?  Why ban me because you think I am causing all this trouble if, when I leave and start a new channel, you are going to follow me and post every word I write to all the old people you were saying you were protecting by shutting me and Jean up? And how dare you make it impossible for jean and I to have a channel where WE would feel safe?  When rosee started #aar-haven, she said the point was NOT to be rid of me, but to create a place where anyone who wanted to be free of the abusiveness in #aar could be and feel safe.  She told me yesterday that included me and Jean.  Yet in #aar-haven, Crisis called me sick and obsessive, even though i did not say a word to her or about her there, asked why anyone would be so sick as to want to be where they are not welcome (aar-haven), etc. that abusiveness was neither stopped nor remarked upon, and *I* was banned from the channel, and then the channel was set up so you could only enter with a key.  Pat did this. But ok…you do that, so Jean and I have another channel where WE will feel safe posting, and you come there TOO and not only relate every word we write, but then make it absolutely impossible for any conversation to go on?  And you want to convince people YOU have been wronged, that YOU are on the defensive? By coming to the channel WE started?  That’s defending?  What?  Taz and Ansel changed nicks no fewer than twenty times, and yes, I was livid.  And I got nasty, at #aar-free, defending the channel, our right to have it, and their NON right to ruin it.  Remember, we DID what was asked repeatedly.  We walked away from it all, and started our own channel which should have been safe for us and anyone who felt like we did.  They followed us.  They kept it going when we walked away. I learned alot last night about these people.  I learned about liars, and sneaks..people who lie to you about who they are to glean information they could not get honestly, people who have been using Jean and I as scapegoats for thier own sick and troubled behavior because THEY clearly followed us, I learned that Jean and I do not even have to be in the room for the shit to start.  What is pissing these people off is our *existence* and that’s too bad.  Neither Jean nor I intend to kill ourselves to salve your wounded fannies, folks. I know now, unequivocally, that neither Jean nor I are the problem.  Pat, Crisis, Buff…and sadly, very sadly Taz, the only person here who has really managed to hurt me, you are all very sick people, and in need of intensive therapy.  You need alot of help or alot of meds or something to help you control youro bsessive stalking behavior that has made you decide that Jean and I are open targets for you to do with as you wish and will.  I urge you all to get help…alot of help, befopre this incredible sinckness spills out into your real lives, assuming it hasn’t already, and you do real damage. Lastly, I had been thinking about whether or not it was possible for me to simply walk away from all of this, let them make their snide remarks and yada yada yada…but youshowed me last night that it is NOT possible for me to simply walk away.  You intend to follow, and to keep it going even when we are not in your channel.  So you will have to deal with me, and you can explain to everyone in this ng and on channel why when Jean and I DID try to walk away, you made it impossible for us, and why you kept it all going.  YOU.  Not us. And I will not be swayed, and I don’t believe alot of other people will anymore either about how your anger or pain caused you to do this.  That’s bullshit. You don’t get to use it as your excuse anymore.

Response:

Jean and I were talking in the channel, #aar, and Pat started her usual crap. Then Taz came to me privately and started HERS. Jean and I were told, directly and indirectly, that we were not welcome in #aar and we should find another place to talk.  Pat took away our ability to speak in the ng (Carey gave it back) and when we did not leave on our own, Taz kicked us and banned us.  The rationale for this was that they believed we were ruinging THEIR channel for everyone, and they did not want to fight, and that if Jean and I were gone, the fighting would stop. Ok.  We started our own channel, and the minute we did, they came over there and started fighting with us.  Taz and Ansel, and at one point at least two other members of the ‘clique that time forgot’ crashed our ng, at first posting in new nicks and acting like they weren’t anyone we knew (we asked them directly and they lied), and then when I kicked and banned them both, because someone in the new channel was relating info from there to the other channel, they began to come back again and again and again, refusing to go away, making it impossible for a conversation to take place at all.  I moderated the channel, and they reduced to tryiong to communicate with me in nine letter nicks, someof which were kind of really…well….sickly obsessive and sad. They then went back to #aar and began to relate the story there, laughing. This infuriates me.  IF what these people wanted was for the fighting to stop, and IF all that needed to occur was getting rid of Jean and I, WHY both follow us back to the new channel and relate every word we said in the old one?  HOW is that ridding the old channel of our presence or calming things down or stopping a fight, or in taz’s words, making the old channel safe for the other posters?  Why ban me because you think I am causing all this trouble if, when I leave and start a new channel, you are going to follow me and post every word I write to all the old people you were saying you were protecting by shutting me and Jean up? And how dare you make it impossible for jean and I to have a channel where WE would feel safe?  When rosee started #aar-haven, she said the point was NOT to be rid of me, but to create a place where anyone who wanted to be free of the abusiveness in #aar could be and feel safe.  She told me yesterday that included me and Jean.  Yet in #aar-haven, Crisis called me sick and obsessive, even though i did not say a word to her or about her there, asked why anyone would be so sick as to want to be where they are not welcome (aar-haven), etc. that abusiveness was neither stopped nor remarked upon, and *I* was banned from the channel, and then the channel was set up so you could only enter with a key.  Pat did this. But ok…you do that, so Jean and I have another channel where WE will feel safe posting, and you come there TOO and not only relate every word we write, but then make it absolutely impossible for any conversation to go on?  And you want to convince people YOU have been wronged, that YOU are on the defensive? By coming to the channel WE started?  That’s defending?  What?  Taz and Ansel changed nicks no fewer than twenty times, and yes, I was livid.  And I got nasty, at #aar-free, defending the channel, our right to have it, and their NON right to ruin it.  Remember, we DID what was asked repeatedly.  We walked away from it all, and started our own channel which should have been safe for us and anyone who felt like we did.  They followed us.  They kept it going when we walked away. I learned alot last night about these people.  I learned about liars, and sneaks..people who lie to you about who they are to glean information they could not get honestly, people who have been using Jean and I as scapegoats for thier own sick and troubled behavior because THEY clearly followed us, I learned that Jean and I do not even have to be in the room for the shit to start.  What is pissing these people off is our *existence* and that’s too bad.  Neither Jean nor I intend to kill ourselves to salve your wounded fannies, folks. I know now, unequivocally, that neither Jean nor I are the problem.  Pat, Crisis, Buff…and sadly, very sadly Taz, the only person here who has really managed to hurt me, you are all very sick people, and in need of intensive therapy.  You need alot of help or alot of meds or something to help you control youro bsessive stalking behavior that has made you decide that Jean and I are open targets for you to do with as you wish and will.  I urge you all to get help…alot of help, befopre this incredible sinckness spills out into your real lives, assuming it hasn’t already, and you do real damage. Lastly, I had been thinking about whether or not it was possible for me to simply walk away from all of this, let them make their snide remarks and yada yada yada…but youshowed me last night that it is NOT possible for me to simply walk away.  You intend to follow, and to keep it going even when we are not in your channel.  So you will have to deal with me, and you can explain to everyone in this ng and on channel why when Jean and I DID try to walk away, you made it impossible for us, and why you kept it all going.  YOU.  Not us. And I will not be swayed, and I don’t believe alot of other people will anymore either about how your anger or pain caused you to do this.  That’s bullshit. You don’t get to use it as your excuse anymore.

Response:

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