Act Acting » Method Acting » "MY GOD"

"MY GOD"

Question:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!!

Please explain to us what is impossible about doing so. One only needs to be reminded that Jesus has two natures. Phil. 2:7  Then there is no problem at all in "making sense."   It was His human nature that was being crucified–that was calling out to God. The human nature is what bore our sins, and needed divine strength to bear the wrath of God. The really perplexing question is:  If Jesus is NOT God,  who held the world together for the three days He was dead, since Heb. 1:3 tells us that it is the Son that upholds all things? (The explanation that the Father took over for three days is very shaky, since it is in the very context of Christ’s death that Hebrews declares that the SON upholds all things.) John C. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!!

This is a commonly asked question of those who do not understand what we Christians believe. This is no insult to you, but if one understands that we, in fact, do not teach that Jesus and the Father are the same exact person, then this apparent contradiction is removed. I would refer you to the Athanasian Creed. The WTBTS has misrepresented us for many years on this issue, though I am now told that they no longer use the publications that used to misrepresent us. Simple put We not not believe in Three Gods in one. They are distinct persons though, so this is really a misnomer. Edward

Response:

What do think happened to him when he died? Do you think his soul died? Are you that when the heberws said" the son holds all things together" they meant he hold the world together in his hand or figuritively * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! Please explain to us what is impossible about doing so.

He didn’t say it was impossible. Instead, it’s merely inconsistent. One only needs to be reminded that Jesus has two natures.

Ah. I see. Jesus was schizophrenic. — Wayne Delia, Atheist #61, MSTie #37634 "That remark would hurt, if I had any feelings." (Richard Fish, on "Ally McBeal")

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!!

These are good questions and deserve a serious reply. I can only hope that the questioner is serious and will seriously engage in discussion. Jesus is fully human and fully divine. He has two natures, but only one person. There are not "parts" in Jesus; not a "human part" and a "divine part". He was crying out to his father. His Father, though united with the Son, is nonetheless a separate person. Jesus had assumed the fullness of humanity and taken on himself the fullness of sin. His despair was real enough; he was not play acting. He had indeed taken on all the impurities of human nature, though guiltless himself. What your question really asks is how does Jesus know he is God? By "infusion", or by faith. That is an interesting topic. John

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! This is a commonly asked question of those who do not understand what we Christians believe.

Interesting idea, I say that if you believe in the Trinity, then you are NOT Christians, but Churchians. This is no insult to you, but if one understands that we, in fact, do not teach that Jesus and the Father are the same exact person, then this apparent contradiction is removed.

Read the doctrine that explains your trinitarian belief, you might change you idea on what you said above, for the doctrine does indeed claim they are the same. I would refer you to the Athanasian Creed.

I would refer you back to it :-) ) The WTBTS has misrepresented us for many years on this issue, though I am now told that they no longer use the publications that used to misrepresent us. Simple put We not not believe in Three Gods in one. They are distinct persons though, so this is really a misnomer.

If they are distinct persons, then they are not Yahweh are they, therefore Jesus can not be Yahweh. S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! Please explain to us what is impossible about doing so. One only needs to be reminded that Jesus has two natures. Phil. 2:7  Then there is no problem at all in "making sense."   It was His human nature that was being crucified–that was calling out to God.

You have 2 natures as well, do you cry out when one of your natures deserts you??   The human nature is what bore our sins, and needed divine strength to bear the wrath of God.

Really, this is interesting to know, therefore Jesus’s death on the stake was completely meaningless, as only his physical body died it meant nothing because millions and trillions of human physical bodies have died sense Adam and Eve chose to sin against Yahweh and none of their deaths have saved us. The really perplexing question is:  If Jesus is NOT God,  who held the world together for the three days He was dead, since Heb. 1:3 tells us that it is the Son that upholds all things?

Yahweh did it.  If Jesus WAS God, then who held everything together and how did he resurrect himself?? (The explanation that the Father took over for three days is very shaky, since it is in the very context of Christ’s death that Hebrews declares that the SON upholds all things.)

You mean to tell me your whole idea of your theology is based on one verse in the Bible?? S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! Please explain to us what is impossible about doing so. He didn’t say it was impossible. Instead, it’s merely inconsistent. One only needs to be reminded that Jesus has two natures. Ah. I see. Jesus was schizophrenic.

Looks that way doesn’t it, and if Jesus isn’t, then Yahweh would certainly have to be. S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! These are good questions and deserve a serious reply. I can only hope that the questioner is serious and will seriously engage in discussion. Jesus is fully human and fully divine. He has two natures, but only one person. There are not "parts" in Jesus; not a "human part" and a "divine part". He was crying out to his father. His Father, though united with the Son, is nonetheless a separate person. Jesus had assumed the fullness of humanity and taken on himself the fullness of sin. His despair was real enough; he was not play acting. He had indeed taken on all the impurities of human nature, though guiltless himself.

This is interesting, I accept the same theology, yet it doesn’t lead me to the conclusion that Jesus was in fact Yahweh.  For Christ Jesus to have been fully Human and Fully Divine, he had to have had a pre-human existence, thereby lowering himself to become a Human being on Earth as we are.  At that point, there was had to be no trace of his original Divine being remaining in Heaven, otherwise he could not be fully Human.  Does this make sense to you?? If the above thought process is followed that means that it is impossible for Jesus to be Yahweh, as he could not have left his Divine existence completely to become fully Human.  Had that divine existence remained to any degree in Heaven while he was on Earth, he would not have been fully Human.   If you accept that Christ Jesus was in fact a human body with Yahweh incorporated within him, then when Jesus died on the stake, it was in fact only his Human Physical body which died, this in itself would have been pointless, as Millions of Trillions of Human bodies have died since Adam and Eve sinned, none of these deaths either individually or grouped has been enough to Save humanity, so why would another simple human body do it?? What your question really asks is how does Jesus know he is God? By "infusion", or by faith. That is an interesting topic.

Actually, the question was specific.  Did Christ Jesus know he was Yahweh??  The answer of course is NO, for at no point did he even insinuate this. S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! Please explain to us what is impossible about doing so. He didn’t say it was impossible. Instead, it’s merely inconsistent. One only needs to be reminded that Jesus has two natures. Ah. I see. Jesus was schizophrenic. Looks that way doesn’t it, and if Jesus isn’t, then Yahweh would certainly have to be.

I agree; I’m not trying to make a childish taunt of "Oh, look, Jesus is a basket case" with my observation. Rather, I’m trying to figure out why it supposedly is OK for Jesus to be schizophrenic but anyone else exhibiting split personalities is diagnosed as mentally ill. — Wayne Delia, Atheist #61, MSTie #37634 "That remark would hurt, if I had any feelings." (Richard Fish, on "Ally McBeal")

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out?

There was not, is not nor will there ever be  a person named jesus(help) christ(anoint.) "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me and art  so far from saving me, from heeding my groans?"       P22 The "new testament" is a remake of the "old testament" which is a remake of even older fairy tales.  My thinking is that there is no need for mankind for he is to shallow, but, "I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world."    ben   8)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! These are good questions and deserve a serious reply. I can only hope that the questioner is serious and will seriously engage in discussion. Jesus is fully human and fully divine.

This somewhat begs the question of how anything can be fully (100%) one quality and simultaneously fully (100%) a different, mutually exclusive quality, and I’m going under the assumption that no ordinary human has any divine qualities at all, i.e. "fully human" makes no implication of possessing any divine abilities. He has two natures, but only one person.

Sounds like Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. There are not "parts" in Jesus; not a "human part" and a "divine part". He was crying out to his father. His Father, though united with the Son, is nonetheless a separate person. Jesus had assumed the fullness of humanity and taken on himself the fullness of sin. His despair was real enough; he was not play acting. He had indeed taken on all the impurities of human nature, though guiltless himself.

So He’s different from God when you need Him to be, and He’s God when that happens to be convenient. It really doesn’t much answer the question. What your question really asks is how does Jesus know he is God? By "infusion", or by faith. That is an interesting topic.

Another method by which people know they’re God is by "mental illness." — Wayne Delia, Atheist #61, MSTie #37634 "That remark would hurt, if I had any feelings." (Richard Fish, on "Ally McBeal")

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!! This is a commonly asked question of those who do not understand what we Christians believe. Interesting idea, I say that if you believe in the Trinity, then you are NOT Christians, but Churchians.

Hey I didn’t invent the name :-) This is no insult to you, but if one understands that we, in fact, do not teach that Jesus and the Father are the same exact person, then this apparent contradiction is removed. Read the doctrine that explains your trinitarian belief, you might change you idea on what you said above, for the doctrine does indeed claim they are the same.

The Creed reads in part: "The Father eternal: the Son eternal: the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are NOT three eternals: but ONE eternal." "the Father is Almighty: the Son is Almighty:the Holy Spirit is Almighty. And yet they are NOT three Almighties: but ONE Almighty." "So the Father is God: the Son is God: the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are NOT three Gods: but ONE God." "the Father is Lord:the Son is Lord: the Holy Spirit is Lord. And yet NOT three Lords: but ONE Lord." But when we come to the part about the personage of God it is very different in form. "there is one Person of the Father:another of the Son: and another of the Holy Spirit." If you note it doesn’t say "And yet NOT three persons: but ONE person." Because that is not what it teaches! The Creed recognizes that we worship "one God in Trinity, and trinity in Unity." I know you don’t believe the creed necesarily, but I forward that it does not teach that three persons are one. You may understand it that way, but it was written with the intent of saying three seperate and distinct persons in one God. Edward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would refer you to the Athanasian Creed. I would refer you back to it :-) ) The WTBTS has misrepresented us for many years on this issue, though I am now told that they no longer use the publications that used to misrepresent us. Simple put We not not believe in Three Gods in one. They are distinct persons though, so this is really a misnomer. If they are distinct persons, then they are not Yahweh are they, therefore Jesus can not be Yahweh. S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

If they are distinct persons, then they are not Yahweh are they, therefore Jesus can not be Yahweh. S

This is an interesting point, but it too may preoceeed from a faulty notion. We teach that all three persons are YHWH, not just the Father. And if we are right about that then your point carries no validity. But in respect to your belief and the fact that some scripture seems to suggest this, I fall short of saying you are wrong. But I would see this issue as a proponerance of evidence case. It is not blcak and white but a shade of Gray. First of all both of us must assume somewhat to get here, for I know of no scripture that says "The Father is YHWH." But just because it isn’t explict does not mean it isn’t true. We can reason through scripture fairly quickly to see that the Father is, in fact, YHWH. But we Christians would also forward that Jesus is YHWH too from John 1:1, 8:58; 20:28; Tit. 2:13; Hebs. 1:8, to name a few. We would cite various old testament citations in the New Testament as further evidence, (Mk. 1:2-4, cf. Isa. 40:3, Jn. 12:41, cf. Isa. 6:1-5, just to name a few places where we find that. I know of course you could disagree on some of these verse. Edward

Response:

This is an interesting point, but it too may preoceeed from a faulty notion. We teach that all three persons are YHWH, not just the Father. And if we are right about that then your point carries no validity. But in respect to your belief and the fact that some scripture seems to suggest this, I fall short of saying you are wrong. But I would see this issue as a proponerance of evidence case. It is not blcak and white but a shade of Gray.

It is, in other words, a "proponerance" of what a given observer considers to *be* evidence case…. — The words are mine; the meaning is you. ~ ~ "Steven R. Champagne" 1 line, 40 characters Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is an interesting point, but it too may preoceeed from a faulty notion. We teach that all three persons are YHWH, not just the Father. And if we are right about that then your point carries no validity. But in respect to your belief and the fact that some scripture seems to suggest this, I fall short of saying you are wrong. But I would see this issue as a proponerance of evidence case. It is not blcak and white but a shade of Gray. It is, in other words, a "proponerance" of what a given observer considers to *be* evidence case…. — The words are mine; the meaning is you.

As I see it that what this forum is all about. Some argue from the WTBTS point of view, and put there argument out there. I on the other hand argue thw Trinitarian perspective. When it is all said and done, hopefully we view the argument and learn form it. On side will have more "evidence" or rational to the "lurkers" here. And yes, this forum is more for the undecided than us. Proponderance of evidence is a nice way of me saying that even though I disagree with some in here, I can see that they too have an argument. Whether I am *wrong* or *right* is subjective to the lurkers, and ultimately known by true God. Edward

Response:

This is a commonly asked question of those who do not understand what we Christians believe. Interesting idea, I say that if you believe in the Trinity, then you are NOT Christians, but Churchians. Hey I didn’t invent the name :-)

No, you didn’t invent the doctrine of the trinity either, yet you follow it and claim it to be true. Read the doctrine that explains your trinitarian belief, you might change you idea on what you said above, for the doctrine does indeed claim they are the same. The Creed reads in part: "The Father eternal: the Son eternal: the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are NOT three eternals: but ONE eternal."

Guess what, that’s 3 eternals, you can’t make 3 = 1 "the Father is Almighty: the Son is Almighty:the Holy Spirit is Almighty. And yet they are NOT three Almighties: but ONE Almighty."

again 3 almightys, guess what, Christ Jesus NEVER EVER claimed to be the ALMIGHTLY "So the Father is God: the Son is God: the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are NOT three Gods: but ONE God."

again, 3 can not equal 1 "the Father is Lord:the Son is Lord: the Holy Spirit is Lord. And yet NOT three Lords: but ONE Lord."

Interesting, except that Christ Jesus is the Lord, not Yahweh.  Yahweh is the God, our Father.   But when we come to the part about the personage of God it is very different in form. "there is one Person of the Father:another of the Son: and another of the Holy Spirit." If you note it doesn’t say "And yet NOT three persons: but ONE person." Because that is not what it teaches! The Creed recognizes that we worship "one God in Trinity, and trinity in Unity." I know you don’t believe the creed necesarily, but I forward that it does not teach that three persons are one. You may understand it that way, but it was written with the intent of saying three seperate and distinct persons in one God.

Why not just say "3 separate persons in one Purpose"  That would have been closer to being accurate than the trinity doctrine. S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!!

Simply a case of premature ejaculation. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Every single tear shed by a theist for the dead is in its own little way a failure of theism @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Response:

Ah. I see. Jesus was schizophrenic. Looks that way doesn’t it, and if Jesus isn’t, then Yahweh would certainly have to be. I agree; I’m not trying to make a childish taunt of "Oh, look, Jesus is a basket case" with my observation. Rather, I’m trying to figure out why it supposedly is OK for Jesus to be schizophrenic but anyone else exhibiting split personalities is diagnosed as mentally ill.

Because the churches prefer it that way.  Its ok for Yahweh and Christ Jesus to be schozo, because they will save us.  Guess what, it wont happen unless people come to understand that the doctrine the Catholic Church has given them is in error. S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? There was not, is not nor will there ever be  a person named jesus(help) christ(anoint.) "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me and art so far from saving me, from heeding my groans?"       P22 The "new testament" is a remake of the "old testament" which is a remake of even older fairy tales.  My thinking is that there is no need for mankind for he is to shallow, but, "I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world."

Thank you for you atheistic input ben.  You really do however show lack of understanding, which doesn’t surprise me.  All of Life is a fairy tale lad.  You are right though, mankind is shallow, so guess what, that means all of us including you :-) )) S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

If they are distinct persons, then they are not Yahweh are they, therefore Jesus can not be Yahweh. S This is an interesting point, but it too may preoceeed from a faulty notion. We teach that all three persons are YHWH, not just the Father. And if we are right about that then your point carries no validity. But in respect to your belief and the fact that some scripture seems to suggest this, I fall short of saying you are wrong. But I would see this issue as a proponerance of evidence case. It is not blcak and white but a shade of Gray.

Actually, it leans much closer to being black or white than the shade of gray that the trinity stands in. :-)  There is much less evidence to prove this point and I WOULD go so far as to say the doctrine of the trinity is wrong.  Why?? Because a belief in the trinity degrades the sacrifice that both Christ Jesus himself made and Yahweh himself when Christ Jesus (Yahweh’s Son) was crucified on the stake for OUR sins. First of all both of us must assume somewhat to get here, for I know of no scripture that says "The Father is YHWH." But just because it isn’t explict does not mean it isn’t true. We can reason through scripture fairly quickly to see that the Father is, in fact, YHWH. But we Christians would also forward that Jesus is YHWH too from John 1:1, 8:58; 20:28; Tit. 2:13; Hebs. 1:8, to name a few. We would cite various old testament citations in the New Testament as further evidence, (Mk. 1:2-4, cf. Isa. 40:3, Jn. 12:41, cf. Isa. 6:1-5, just to name a few places where we find that. I know of course you could disagree on some of these verse.

John 1:1 is the only proof text the doctrine of the trinity has, and as I have said before, it is a mistranslation.  That therefore, leaves NO proof texts at all.  You also fall into the problem of Christ Jesus saying that he is lower than his Father, also that he does nothing that he hasn’t seen the Father do.  How do you explain this with the theology of the doctrine so ingrained??  You can’t really, if you do, you end up confusing yourself, you degrade the sacrifice that Christ Jesus suffered for us, or you run into a major scriptural problem with the fact that Yahweh can’t die. S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is, in other words, a "proponerance" of what a given observer considers to *be* evidence case…. — The words are mine; the meaning is you. As I see it that what this forum is all about. Some argue from the WTBTS point of view, and put there argument out there. I on the other hand argue thw Trinitarian perspective. When it is all said and done, hopefully we view the argument and learn form it. On side will have more "evidence" or rational to the "lurkers" here. And yes, this forum is more for the undecided than us. Proponderance of evidence is a nice way of me saying that even though I disagree with some in here, I can see that they too have an argument. Whether I am *wrong* or *right* is subjective to the lurkers, and ultimately known by true God.

Actually, I would hope that also those caught in their churches doctrines once seeing Yahweh’s Truth would change as well.  Yes, there is an amount of fear in changing, but surely the Truth is better than the untruth.  I am not saying that one should leave their church and become a JW, although I agree with the information that church teaches about Yahweh and his Son, it doesn’t necessarily mean that I agree with the way the church is run.  The information is correct however, well most of it :-) ) S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

I will keep you in my prayers — Pax Christus, Br. Todd "M&M" Ricker, CFP

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? There was not, is not nor will there ever be  a person named jesus(help) christ(anoint.) "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me and art so far from saving me, from heeding my groans?"       P22 The "new testament" is a remake of the "old testament" which is a remake of even older fairy tales.  My thinking is that there is no need for mankind for he is to shallow, but, "I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world." Thank you for you atheistic input ben.  You really do however show lack of understanding, which doesn’t surprise me.  All of Life is a fairy tale lad.  You are right though, mankind is shallow, so guess what, that means all of us including you :-) )) S http://truth.tsx.org/ Or visit our Forum at http://www.delphi.com/white_wolf/start/

Response:

Mark 15:34 (JB) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" to whom was Jesus Crying out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry " MY GOD" was not from some one who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then whom was he deserted? Himself? that would not make sense!!

When Jesus said that, he was suffering because of his separation from God because of the sin. When dying, Jesus didn’t commit any sin, but became a sin for us, in our place. Then he felt the separation from God (that was our destiny, if he didn’t took our place). And then died because of it. The human part of Jesus died. The sheeps cerimony in the Old testament was a prelude to this event. Men’s sins were transfered to the sheep (Jesus) and the sheep was killed (sins forgiven). In Isa. 48:16 says Jesus is our judge. But when he died for us he was like a lawyer. If he is our judge and lawyer, and the acusation is Satan, then if we trust our lives to Jesus we will surely be saved. (I’m really sorry, my english is very terrible. i hope you can understand) AngeloB

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