Act Acting » Method Acting » THANK YOU….

THANK YOU….

Question:

If anyone would know, Nathalie, it would be Karen… ask her…in private of course, as it is OT…. Kristal

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Had anyone else made the connection that a prime trait of alcoholics is "denial" and our troll seems to be very good at denying that her actions are at the root of all evil?  Perhaps it’s time for another visit to AA, Troll! Psssssst  Pssssssst  Psssssst <spraying heavy-duty anti-troll spray Does someone know if there is such thing as the Troll Anomynous…?? <VBG — :-) )))) Nathalie — Who is celebrating her 7th wedding anniversary on the 8th of January 2001 and her birthday on the 9th of January — http://nathaliesdesigns.homestead.com/index.html – "I got Something for Everyone!" Home of Criss Cross Connexion – check on the website for more about it…

Response:

OIC now!! It is VICTORIA’s fault!! No wonder…. Tia Mary – I have enjoyed your posts, and most others here on the newsgroup. What I don’t want to read – I just skip over.  My ISP is not bandwidth based (is anyone’s now a day?), so I don’t care how many I down load – I look for topics I am interested in and don’t read the ones I am not.  I don’t care about the dog, the chocolate orange, or someones DGD.  Sorry – don’t mean to sound rude, but if I wanted to learn more about that, I would go to alt.peopleandotherlivingthings. I come here to read about needlework.  I am relatively new to needlework and am obsessed with learning as much as I can about it. However, I come here, read a topic and it disenigrates into this from Karen C (who professes to want peace, but then sticks ugly, uncalled for things inbetween her honey breaded postings): Snippet: Can’t wait to see Tia Mary’s post on the subject, since she minces words even less than I do! Had anyone else made the connection that a prime trait of alcoholics is "denial" and our troll seems to be very good at denying that her actions are at the root of all evil?  Perhaps it’s time for another visit to AA, Troll! Psssssst  Pssssssst  Psssssst <spraying heavy-duty anti-troll spray End Snippet…. As I said in a previous post – Karen is the epitimy of the definition of troll.  Don’t beleive me, go look it up yourself in any technical dictionary.  Don’t like my opinion… that is fine – don’t read it, and shortly I will keep it to myself.  I am just amazed that somehow this has turned into VICTORIA’s fault.  So she posts something, and it turns the newsgroup into a tub o’ crap?  I think not.  Like any conversation, IT TAKES TWO.  I am sure that IF Victoria ‘ruined’ this newsgroup (and I use someone’s words, not mine – I like the newsgroup just fine – suits my purpose – I have a life outside of my home and computer), she did it on her own – she was the only one with a shart tongue – I am sure all the responses to her were sweet and lovely and friendly as we are all known to be here. As to Victoria posting about OT – perhaps she saw that she was CONTRIBUTING to the downfall (not the CAUSE) of the newsgroup, stepped back, and decided to keep her side of the street clean?  Perhaps, as SOME of us are apt to do, she decided, for the good of the group or whatever reason, that she didn’t like all HER OT posts and that she wanted to state that.  I get it!! Everyone can confess or blame or change or WHATEVER, EXCEPT Victoria. What a bunch of BULL this is… how on earth can it all be ONE PERSON’S FAULT.  It takes two to tangle.  If Victoria is not the type to sit by and let all you wonderful people be so ’sweet’ to her, then so be it.  If you dish it out – TAKE it.  If she has said some things and then tried to come back and say – hey, I was wrong to post so many off topic things (in the way only SHE can say :-) , so be it. Damn…. Kristal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can’t wait to see Tia Mary’s post on the subject, since she minces words even less than I do!    Well, I am sitting here absolutely aghast at all that has occured while I was busy entertaining Brigitte from Germany!  Lordy, I leave you guys alone for a few days and really GOOD posters are taking  temporary leave of us left and right!  And Karen’s correct, my word mincing days are long gone but I *hope* I can have my say without setting too many teeth on edge. So, for what it’s worth, here’s my "take" on the situation.     First off, I missed the beginning of the whole Dr. Laura thing so I have *no idea* how or why it got started.  I came back into the middle of the fray and so just stayed out of it.  By the time I took a few tentative looks at the posts, they were predominately between Victoria and Joi who were gaily and venomously whacking each other about the head & body over religion, sexual preferences and who knows what else.  ALL of which had degenerated into garbage by the time I saw it — from BOTH sides.  Name calling and cursing and absolutely horrid behaviour by just about everyone who was posting to the topic!  I have no idea how it had all sunk to the level that it did but it made me quite ashamed to say I posted to RCTN!  It made my tyrannical rant to Karen several months ago seem like a walk in the freaking park!    I am in an unusual position here because I didn’t see all of what took place.  I posted a few times and got *civil* responses from Victoria.  She sent me the darling walrii which was not necessary but a very kind and generous thing to do.   I don’t know Joi at all and have never answered any of her posts that I know of and don’t remember if she has ever commented to any of my posts.  But I will have to say that to me it seems that Victoria has done a 180 here — sorry about that Victoria but it is true.  There were numerous daily OT posts arguing about all of that religion & sex stuff, and I mean A LOT of them, from both Joi and Victoria.  But now we are getting posts from Victoria saying that there are way too many OT posts and they are on topics that are offensive or whatever.  When and for what reason did THAT U-turn take place???     I don’t know who was the first to get nasty and at this point I don’t care.  All I know is that, other than the copyright hullabaloo, things were going along about as they normally do and WHAM, Victoria shows up sort of out of the blue and the whole ng goes to hell in a handbasket!  So what is everyone to think but that Victoria and her method of posting is at the heart of the problem?  Victoria did post several times saying she was making an effort not to post inflammatory stuff and that she wanted to make friends in the ng. And then the complete turn around and the posts by Victoria denouncing OT posts and almost *any* discussion of a personal nature here like posting about our pets or illnesses, etc.  And all of this after the endless days of an overwhelming number of horrid OT posts that just went on ad nauseum!  But I also want to say that if Joi was to post a similar opinion about the number & content of OT posts, I would be just as upset with her.  I don’t care what anyone believes as long as they don’t use this ng to argue and proselytize!  Someone involved in that shameful display of juvenile behaviour last month should have had the sense to say "I am sorry, but I don’t agree with you" and leave it at that or take it to e-mail.   Now, I hope that the idea of not posting about our OT difficulties just won’t fly at RCTN.  As I said several times in previous posts, it’s not the number of OT posts that has people up in arms it is the tenor of the OT posts.  I hope that our people NEVER quit posting when they need our prayers or support; our encouragement and insight; our love and understanding!  And you can bet I hope people never quit posting, talking about their "babies" and any problems they have with them, be they human babies or animal babies!   I will be VERY happy to see us get back to normal, whatever that may be and to have the opportunity to read more Boring Stories!!    I hope that Trish and Nan Evelyn don’t lurk for too long because they are both part of the backbone of RCTN.  Trish and I have always had friendly interractions but  Nan Evelyn & I do sort of "have a go" at each other from time to time because we don’t view a number of topics the same way but that’s good for the group dynamics. If they aren’t here it just won’t be the same.  It is a shame that a relative newcomer to RCTN (as far as frequent postings go) has made them feel the only recourse they have is to take a break!    So, I am sorry to say it, but I too think that Victoria is at the root of the problem.  It looks to me like she began posting before she fully understood the "feel" of RCTN and it’s "unspoken" rules.  Seems she initially made a few sort of out of kilter posts and got taken to task for it.  Perhaps in self defense, she did what I tend to do — post in a kneejerk fashion, upsetting others who in turn post while angry or upset and the snowball is on it’s downhill slide!  I am sure this sounds ungrateful and two-faced after receiving the darling walrii from Victoria but that’s what it looks like to me.    So, that’s it in a relly BIG nutshell.  But please — let’s not start yet another flame war OK?  If you don’t agree with me that’s fine — GOOD actuallly!  But try to be civil in your disagreement posts.  I am trying to be polite and mature in airing my opinions and I hope that others will try to do the same.  If Victoria or anyone else wants to disagree then please do so. But just saying I am being unfair or acting like an ostrich with my head in the sand or something similar does no one any good.  Tell me WHY you disagree, give me logical, reasonable, adult foundations for your beliefs.  I will listen to that because I want to understand your viewpoint on THIS topic and THIS topic only.  This post is not about anything else!   Ok — that should be it for now.  If this starts another round of bovine scatology then I will gratefully ignore it!  I bought into the trouble that the Pattern Piggies were stirring but I WILL NOT get into a fray over this. It feels as if RCTN is finally levelling out and I might have stirred the fire again but I sincerely hope not.  Of course, it won’t be the first time I have done that and if it does happen, then I heartily apologize to all of you ahead of time.  It is not really necessary to have the absolute last word so hopefully, this will be my last word on this topic.  CiaoMeow ^;;^< . PAX, Tia Mary   ^;;^< Angels can’t show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their WHISKERS!! Nothing is

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Response:

It’s no fun to see that weeks after I kill-filed her to keep my blood pressure under control, our favorite troll is still at it. It’s also no surprise. (Notice no one mentioned her name but I’m quite sure who it is!) Assuming she sticks to her pattern, she will now go all "nicey-nice"; she will insist that she is misunderstood; or, MY PERSONAL FAVORITE: she will announce that she is not going to sink to others’ level and will no longer discuss whatever topic it is she started all the trouble with in the first place. (Whenever the little "darling" gets backed into a corner she’s suddenly too genteel to discuss something- amazing, isn’t it?) Then shortly she will attack someone else here- slamming anything that does not fit into her personal little ego-system. This person is clearly a sicko. There have been more fights and flame wars here since she started her personal attack program in July, than in all the almost 7 years I’ve been here before that. I can only recommend that we do like the old Amish and shun her. Ignore her. Pretend she does not exist. No matter WHAT she says, let her talk only to herself. Shunning is an extreme action but there are times when it is the only way for a community to protect itself. The anger, pain and loss that this one person has single-handedly inflicted on this group are staggering. The people we have lost are many- and allowing her to continue to hurt, revile, ridicule and slam people will only mean more will disappear. Is she worth more than the years of friendship, camaraderie and sharing that this group has built? I am BEGGING every member of RCTN to take the only action that will prevent this person from continuing to be a source of trouble and pain. Please use your kill-file if you have one. If not, please resist all temptations to even read her posts. Under NO circumstances reply to her no matter what she writes. After 7 years here, it is amazing to me that I am writing this. If I did not feel SOOOOO strongly that this person is a serious threat to the continued success and harmony of this group, I would never take such an action. There are times when only extreme measures can effect a cure- and this, I think, is such a time. With great sadness that such a day could ever come to RCTN, I ask you to make her, for the sake of all the rest of the group, to make her an outsider. Teresa/LadyDoc

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just wanted to say thank you to so many of you out here (namely Trish, Nan Evelyn, Pat P, Joyce, Katrina, Arliss, Emerald, Kay, Sue, Karen C., Elizabeth, Jeri, Donna, and Vickie…..to name a few :-p) who had the gumption to speak up and say what I had been thinking and feeling for so long.  THANK YOU ALL!!!!!   I was beginning to wonder what was wrong with me to be having such thoughts of antipathy, especially towards only one person. I now know that I am not alone in my misery of where this group has been taken, and in that, I take great comfort. Christy (who will immediately revert back to her lurker-only status until RCTN becomes a kinder, more gentler place to be)

Response:

I beg to differ with you.  Personally, Karen – these are fighting words. Untreated alcoholics may suffer from denial – not ALL alcoholics.  Not EVERY man is like your exhusband – neither is every alcoholic. Not only is the last half of your post offensive to those that don’t even know you – it makes you sound vindictive, bitter and non-orgasmic (excuse me if anyone is offended).  I am sick of your sweeter than saccharine (sp?) posting with the jabs.  You have absolutely no excuse for posting the below post – except to throw torches at your paranoia-induced troll.  If you knew ANYTHING at all about alcoholism and its treatment, you would know that you are NOT keeping your side of the street clean.  You deserve ANYTHING you get as the result of your postings.  No one needs ANYTHING stirred up… you are starting to look like a troll yourself.  In fact, according to the definition at whatis.com, YOU are a troll…       troll       As used on the Internet:       1) As a verb, the practice of trying to lure other Internet users into sending responses to carefully-designed incorrect statements or similar "bait." In a real example, a Usenet newsgroup contributor mentions the discovery of an ancient African carving containing a list of prime numbers. The contributor further lists some of the prime numbers found and includes some numbers that, in fact, are not prime numbers. Other contributors then send serious replies, correcting the list of prime numbers cited. The originator of the troll then announces that so-and-so has been "hooked." Why don’t you obey your pledge, keep your mouth shut about things you don’t know and stick to needlepoint, cross stitch or whatever your fancy is at the moment. And thanks for letting me share… Kristal – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Karen C., Elizabeth, Jeri, Donna, and Vickie…..to name a few :-p) who had the gumption to speak up I appreciate the "applause", since sometimes I wonder if I’m being too offensive. Can’t wait to see Tia Mary’s post on the subject, since she minces words even less than I do! Had anyone else made the connection that a prime trait of alcoholics is "denial" and our troll seems to be very good at denying that her actions are at the root of all evil?  Perhaps it’s time for another visit to AA, Troll! Psssssst  Pssssssst  Psssssst <spraying heavy-duty anti-troll spray — Finished 9/30/00 – Dumbo (Disney) WIP: #1 – getting my health back California Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, America the Beautiful (Nimble Needle), antique green doll (Vervaco), Xmas cactus Don’t risk your on-line privileges!  I report all Spam.

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Response:

Lady, may you never have a drinking problem to beat.

I’ve beaten many problems in my life, and I know what it takes to do it.  The first step is taking responsibility for your own contribution to the problem. Insisting that you’re the innocent victim of all these nasty people on RCTN who pick on your sig lines when, in fact, you’ve contributed to the arguments and insisted on having the last word, is a clear denial of responsibility.   All the twelve-step groups start by teaching responsibility, and it is clear that the troll has forgotten that part of what she learned and needs a refresher course. I hope none of you have to go through the hell that I’ve gone through in my life.  I’ve come back from places where angels fear to tread.  But I don’t use that as an excuse for being holier than thou, constantly waving it in everyone’s fact that I’m a survivor, etc.  Maybe you should check your facts before you make snide remarks about hoping people never have a problem they need to beat, because I wouldn’t wish my past on any of you. Including the troll. — Finished 9/30/00 – Dumbo (Disney) WIP: #1 – getting my health back California Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, America the Beautiful (Nimble Needle), antique green doll (Vervaco), Xmas cactus Don’t risk your on-line privileges!  I report all Spam.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Had anyone else made the connection that a prime trait of alcoholics is "denial" and our troll seems to be very good at denying that her actions are at the root of all evil?  Perhaps it’s time for another visit to AA, Troll! Psssssst  Pssssssst  Psssssst <spraying heavy-duty anti-troll spray — Finished 9/30/00 – Dumbo (Disney) WIP: #1 – getting my health back California Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, America the Beautiful (Nimble Needle), antique green doll (Vervaco), Xmas cactus Don’t risk your on-line privileges!  I report all Spam.

My God, I don’t believe this… Lady, may you never have a drinking problem to beat.  And may you please find a life somewhere, since you’re sadly in need of one. Goodbye all. Before you buy.

Response:

Quick note- "troll" has nothing to do with drinking or any other disease or problem like that. I used it in the usegroup connotation of someone who sets out to stir up trouble with their posts.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that those remarks are unnecessarily cruel, girls – someone who`s confessed to having beaten a drink problem shouldn`t be mocked or put down in that way, do you think? Actually… it does come over cruel, reading it retrospectively… I should not make fun of the AA… as I helped a friend beat her drinking problem… no person I deserved to be called a troll… I don’t even know why people would do such a thing really… calling people names probably shows the worst of what human nature can do… and it can lead to pain, suffering and anguish on the part of the victim… I should have joined in with the news message thread… I realise now that I misread the intent of it and that it is no better then schoolground bullying… and I thought we were all adults who would and could teach children we may have (I don’t yet!!!) that bullying is not an activity any person should persue… We will end up here with a group of bullies and a group of the bullied… and that I find unacceptable… I still suffer painful memories from my schoolyears when I was taunted day in day out by the other kids… where I was called names… where I was beaten up by them… and resulted in me losing a much self-confidence and self-worth… (I got clinically depressed because of it as well)… It has taken 20 years of battling to overcome the effects of this bullying… I do not think that any person should be going through bullying in their adult years… I think that many people should be bow their heads and feel extremely ashamed about any words they may have said (in certain cases myself included)… But I would never ever call any person a troll… and I think that the word should be consigned to the history books… Why don’t we all look to the better part of human nature… togetherness… friendship… love… caring… happiness… joy… kindness… fun… birthdays… wedding anniversaries… births… S.E.X. discussions… MLI worship (sorry… couldn’t help that one…<VBG)… Those are what the qualities that should conveyed in the newsgroup…. Let’s now end all nasty news threads by killfilling… setting them as read… whatever… all at once… and start afresh… It is 12 weeks until Christmas… I am sure we can do better things with that time then bullying each other… (A plea from a victim of bullying…) — :-) )))) Nathalie — Who is celebrating her 7th wedding anniversary on the 8th of January 2001 and her birthday on the 9th of January — http://nathaliesdesigns.homestead.com/index.html – "I got Something for Everyone!" Home of Criss Cross Connexion – check on the website for more about it…

Response:

Tia Mary has hit the nail on the head,… Karen C – California

LOLOL — I’m used to it by now Nathalie.  You haven’t been here long enough to have seen some of the dumb things I have posted — and been called to task over :-) )).  But I’m trying — VERY trying some times — LOLOL!  Sorry if that doesn’t make it thru the ESL translation :-) — if you can’t understand it, e-mail & I will explain as it describes me to a "T" — LOL.  CiaoMeow ^;;^< . PAX, Tia Mary   ^;;^<     Angels can’t show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their WHISKERS!!   Nothing is complete without a few cat hairs! No husband was ever shot doing dishes! Visit my photo album  http://www.photopoint.com

Response:

Tia Mary has hit the nail on the head,… Karen C – California LOLOL — I’m used to it by now Nathalie.  You haven’t been here long enough to have seen some of the dumb things I have posted — and been called to task

over it was meant as a joke this end… Actually… if I believe the personal emails I have receive from some people, I have also posted dumb things… I wonder if there is a corner for the "dumb thing posters group" somewhere as I for sure belong to it… <VBG — :-) )))) Nathalie — Who is celebrating her 7th wedding anniversary on the 8th of January 2001 and her birthday on the 9th of January — http://nathaliesdesigns.homestead.com/index.html – "I got Something for Everyone!" Home of Criss Cross Connexion – check on the website for more about it…

Response:

I started reading these threads in the middle so I really had no idea who you were talking about. Now that I do, I am horrified. This person is not a troll. Go read some other newsgroups if you truly don’t believe me. Trolls like to start fights. They "bait" the NG with some dumb statement, guaranteed to make peoples’ blood boil. Then they sit back and watch the NG tie itself into knots. I haven’t seen anything like that here. What I have seen are people who feel passionate about needlework as well as other subjects. I’ve seen people who feel so passionate they forget to re-read their posts before sending to think about how others might interpret what they write. I see people who sometimes (perhaps taking their cue from other NGs where this is common?) like to be a little arrogant or rude to overstate a point. I see people who start posting before lurking long enough to get a sense of the NG. I don’t think any of these traits are mortal sins :-) . I for one am willing to skip the posts that offend. As a result, what I am seeing now is a lot more on-topic posts and some great interchange of ideas. I’ve learned so much about laying tools, for example, or how to make my doodle cloths useful. This is the type of thread that really makes RCTN great. If somebody posts something I don’t like, I skip it. And if somebody does a 180 in their attitude, I’ll accept it at face value until I have any reason to doubt that person’s word. Yeah, sometimes people are jerks on this NG. But I think that means most of us — what makes us jerks is not just what we say but how we react to what others say. — Beth  (who really wasn’t going to post this — but I guess I feel passionate about some things too) WIP: Millennium Cutwork Sampler (Sharon Cohen); Tallit (huck); Challah cloth (based on some charts of Beth Russell’s William Morris Needlepoint); Siberian Winter shawl (Wool You Order)

Response:

I think that those remarks are unnecessarily cruel, girls – someone who`s confessed to having beaten a drink problem shouldn`t be mocked or put down in that way, do you think? Pat P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Had anyone else made the connection that a prime trait of alcoholics is "denial" and our troll seems to be very good at denying that her actions are at the root of all evil?  Perhaps it’s time for another visit to AA, Troll! Psssssst  Pssssssst  Psssssst <spraying heavy-duty anti-troll spray Does someone know if there is such thing as the Troll Anomynous…?? <VBG — :-) )))) Nathalie — Who is celebrating her 7th wedding anniversary on the 8th of January 2001 and her birthday on the 9th of January — http://nathaliesdesigns.homestead.com/index.html – "I got Something for Everyone!" Home of Criss Cross Connexion – check on the website for more about it…

Response:

I think that those remarks are unnecessarily cruel, girls – someone who`s confessed to having beaten a drink problem shouldn`t be mocked or put down in that way, do you think?

Actually… it does come over cruel, reading it retrospectively… I should not make fun of the AA… as I helped a friend beat her drinking problem… no person I deserved to be called a troll… I don’t even know why people would do such a thing really… calling people names probably shows the worst of what human nature can do… and it can lead to pain, suffering and anguish on the part of the victim… I should have joined in with the news message thread… I realise now that I misread the intent of it and that it is no better then schoolground bullying… and I thought we were all adults who would and could teach children we may have (I don’t yet!!!) that bullying is not an activity any person should persue… We will end up here with a group of bullies and a group of the bullied… and that I find unacceptable… I still suffer painful memories from my schoolyears when I was taunted day in day out by the other kids… where I was called names… where I was beaten up by them… and resulted in me losing a much self-confidence and self-worth… (I got clinically depressed because of it as well)… It has taken 20 years of battling to overcome the effects of this bullying… I do not think that any person should be going through bullying in their adult years… I think that many people should be bow their heads and feel extremely ashamed about any words they may have said (in certain cases myself included)… But I would never ever call any person a troll… and I think that the word should be consigned to the history books… Why don’t we all look to the better part of human nature… togetherness… friendship… love… caring… happiness… joy… kindness… fun… birthdays… wedding anniversaries… births… S.E.X. discussions… MLI worship (sorry… couldn’t help that one…<VBG)… Those are what the qualities that should conveyed in the newsgroup…. Let’s now end all nasty news threads by killfilling… setting them as read… whatever… all at once… and start afresh… It is 12 weeks until Christmas… I am sure we can do better things with that time then bullying each other… (A plea from a victim of bullying…) — :-) )))) Nathalie — Who is celebrating her 7th wedding anniversary on the 8th of January 2001 and her birthday on the 9th of January — http://nathaliesdesigns.homestead.com/index.html – "I got Something for Everyone!" Home of Criss Cross Connexion – check on the website for more about it…

Response:

It’s no fun to see that weeks after I kill-filed her to keep my blood pressure under control, our favorite troll is still at it. It’s also

<snip And here I was bemoaning having to read posts on deja.  It seems that deja has saved me a lot of ilk, because I never get any of her posts! That is, if this is the same person mentioned earlier in this thread…I only get snippets of posts by her when others respond and quote her.  I wondered what all the fuss was about.  But I shan’t go looking for the posts now! :) -Heather Lott — Rotation: Cross My Heart "First Nativity" stocking, Mirabilia’s Autumn Queen, TW’s "Magical Night," Eileen Bennett’s "Lace Squares," Just Nan’s "Lady Scarlett’s Journey," Linda Driskell’s "Heirloom Sampler 2000" Visit my website: http://lottloft.home.mindspring.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Had anyone else made the connection that a prime trait of alcoholics is "denial" and our troll seems to be very good at denying that her actions are at the root of all evil?  Perhaps it’s time for another visit to AA, Troll! Psssssst  Pssssssst  Psssssst <spraying heavy-duty anti-troll spray

Does someone know if there is such thing as the Troll Anomynous…?? <VBG — :-) )))) Nathalie — Who is celebrating her 7th wedding anniversary on the 8th of January 2001 and her birthday on the 9th of January — http://nathaliesdesigns.homestead.com/index.html – "I got Something for Everyone!" Home of Criss Cross Connexion – check on the website for more about it…

Response:

When and for what reason did THAT U-turn take place??? As usual, our dear Tia Mary has hit the nail on the head, and quite firmly. Thank you.

— :-) )))) Nathalie — Who is celebrating her 7th wedding anniversary on the 8th of January 2001 and her birthday on the 9th of January — http://nathaliesdesigns.homestead.com/index.html – "I got Something for Everyone!" Home of Criss Cross Connexion – check on the website for more about it…

Response:

 Shunning is an extreme action I am BEGGING every member of RCTN to take the only action that will prevent this person from continuing to be a source of trouble and pain. Please use your kill-file if you have one. If not, please resist all temptations to even read her posts. Under NO circumstances reply to her no matter what she writes.

Been doing it for a long time now! It just makes me sick over the loss of some of our most wanted and loved members. Gussy

Response:

When and for what reason did THAT U-turn take place???

As usual, our dear Tia Mary has hit the nail on the head, and quite firmly. Thank you. — Finished 9/30/00 – Dumbo (Disney) WIP: #1 – getting my health back California Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, America the Beautiful (Nimble Needle), antique green doll (Vervaco), Xmas cactus Don’t risk your on-line privileges!  I report all Spam.

Response:

Whenever the little "darling" gets backed into a corner she’s suddenly too genteel to discuss something- amazing, isn’t it?

Yep.  Sure is.  At least when Tia Mary and I start battles, we’re gutsy enough to fight them to the end. This person is clearly a sicko.

Do we have any psychologists here who’d like to take a stab at explaining what causes this behavior?  And what can be done about it?  I always like to do what I can to get people into therapy to take care of their problems.   — Finished 9/30/00 – Dumbo (Disney) WIP: #1 – getting my health back California Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, America the Beautiful (Nimble Needle), antique green doll (Vervaco), Xmas cactus Don’t risk your on-line privileges!  I report all Spam.

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It just makes me sick over the loss of some of our most wanted and loved members.

AMEN. — Finished 9/30/00 – Dumbo (Disney) WIP: #1 – getting my health back California Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, America the Beautiful (Nimble Needle), antique green doll (Vervaco), Xmas cactus Don’t risk your on-line privileges!  I report all Spam.

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Been doing it for a long time now! It just makes me sick over the loss of some of our most wanted and loved members. Gussy

Unfortunately, IMHO the problems this group is currently having do not stem from any one individual.  Some of us have been complaining about the excessive number of OT posts for a very long time.     It is extremely convenient to blame one individual for the problems but the truth of the matter is, a number of people on this group simply cannot follow the charter and cannot maintain self control.  If you want to chat about other stuff, find a chat room.  This is simply not the place.  I’m with Nan Evelyn, I’m out of here.   This isn’t even slightly enjoyable any longer. Anne AAC/AAF/AFBV62.0844.TX It’s only with the heart that one can see clearly.  What is essential is invisible to the eye.  The Little Prince

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I appreciate the "applause", since sometimes I wonder if I’m being too offensive. Can’t wait to see Tia Mary’s post on the subject, since she minces words even less than I do! Had anyone else made the connection that a prime trait of alcoholics is "denial" and our troll seems to be very good at denying that her actions are at the root of all evil?  Perhaps it’s time for another visit to AA, Troll! Psssssst  Pssssssst  Psssssst <spraying heavy-duty anti-troll spray

I’m not going to mince words either. I think this was *totally* uncalled for Karen. I’m disappointed. I didn’t think you would lower yourself to personal attacks. The way I see it there were several unrelated things that happened over the past few months that caused this total chaos in RCTN. Victoria was definitely one of them but not the only one! There were also a few newsgroup regulars (I believe you were one of them Karen) who were egging others to post "anything it takes" so RCTN could be in the top 100 newsgroups and hit 15,000 posts. Nathalie took those suggestions to heart and started a flood of off topic threads which generated huge numbers of off topic posts. Many of these had the OT stripped off by Outlook Express and became a flood to the people who were filtering OT and least likely to tolerate such nonsense. Also, the sheer number of OT posts outnumbered the needlework posts to the extent that many people who enjoy OT started to complain. But the ‘I do it because I can’ mentality took precedence over other people’s feelings and the flood continued. Lastly there was the Olympics. It should be expected that whenever something of such significance happens it will generate conversation and posts. Please understand I am in NO WAY faulting anyone who posted about them!! They were some of the most enjoyable OT posts in the past few months. It was just bad timing that this happened during one of the worst times I’ve ever seen on RCTN. Just my 2 cents. — Jeri WIP: Home Sweet Home by Anne Powell -slowest stitcher in western NY

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Can’t wait to see Tia Mary’s post on the subject, since she minces words even less than I do!

   Well, I am sitting here absolutely aghast at all that has occured while I was busy entertaining Brigitte from Germany!  Lordy, I leave you guys alone for a few days and really GOOD posters are taking  temporary leave of us left and right!  And Karen’s correct, my word mincing days are long gone but I *hope* I can have my say without setting too many teeth on edge. So, for what it’s worth, here’s my "take" on the situation.     First off, I missed the beginning of the whole Dr. Laura thing so I have *no idea* how or why it got started.  I came back into the middle of the fray and so just stayed out of it.  By the time I took a few tentative looks at the posts, they were predominately between Victoria and Joi who were gaily and venomously whacking each other about the head & body over religion, sexual preferences and who knows what else.  ALL of which had degenerated into garbage by the time I saw it — from BOTH sides.  Name calling and cursing and absolutely horrid behaviour by just about everyone who was posting to the topic!  I have no idea how it had all sunk to the level that it did but it made me quite ashamed to say I posted to RCTN!  It made my tyrannical rant to Karen several months ago seem like a walk in the freaking park!    I am in an unusual position here because I didn’t see all of what took place.  I posted a few times and got *civil* responses from Victoria.  She sent me the darling walrii which was not necessary but a very kind and generous thing to do.   I don’t know Joi at all and have never answered any of her posts that I know of and don’t remember if she has ever commented to any of my posts.  But I will have to say that to me it seems that Victoria has done a 180 here — sorry about that Victoria but it is true.  There were numerous daily OT posts arguing about all of that religion & sex stuff, and I mean A LOT of them, from both Joi and Victoria.  But now we are getting posts from Victoria saying that there are way too many OT posts and they are on topics that are offensive or whatever.  When and for what reason did THAT U-turn take place???     I don’t know who was the first to get nasty and at this point I don’t care.  All I know is that, other than the copyright hullabaloo, things were going along about as they normally do and WHAM, Victoria shows up sort of out of the blue and the whole ng goes to hell in a handbasket!  So what is everyone to think but that Victoria and her method of posting is at the heart of the problem?  Victoria did post several times saying she was making an effort not to post inflammatory stuff and that she wanted to make friends in the ng.  And then the complete turn around and the posts by Victoria denouncing OT posts and almost *any* discussion of a personal nature here like posting about our pets or illnesses, etc.  And all of this after the endless days of an overwhelming number of horrid OT posts that just went on ad nauseum!  But I also want to say that if Joi was to post a similar opinion about the number & content of OT posts, I would be just as upset with her.  I don’t care what anyone believes as long as they don’t use this ng to argue and proselytize!  Someone involved in that shameful display of juvenile behaviour last month should have had the sense to say "I am sorry, but I don’t agree with you" and leave it at that or take it to e-mail.   Now, I hope that the idea of not posting about our OT difficulties just won’t fly at RCTN.  As I said several times in previous posts, it’s not the number of OT posts that has people up in arms it is the tenor of the OT posts.  I hope that our people NEVER quit posting when they need our prayers or support; our encouragement and insight; our love and understanding!  And you can bet I hope people never quit posting, talking about their "babies" and any problems they have with them, be they human babies or animal babies!   I will be VERY happy to see us get back to normal, whatever that may be and to have the opportunity to read more Boring Stories!!    I hope that Trish and Nan Evelyn don’t lurk for too long because they are both part of the backbone of RCTN.  Trish and I have always had friendly interractions but  Nan Evelyn & I do sort of "have a go" at each other from time to time because we don’t view a number of topics the same way but that’s good for the group dynamics. If they aren’t here it just won’t be the same.  It is a shame that a relative newcomer to RCTN (as far as frequent postings go) has made them feel the only recourse they have is to take a break!    So, I am sorry to say it, but I too think that Victoria is at the root of the problem.  It looks to me like she began posting before she fully understood the "feel" of RCTN and it’s "unspoken" rules.  Seems she initially made a few sort of out of kilter posts and got taken to task for it.  Perhaps in self defense, she did what I tend to do — post in a kneejerk fashion, upsetting others who in turn post while angry or upset and the snowball is on it’s downhill slide!  I am sure this sounds ungrateful and two-faced after receiving the darling walrii from Victoria but that’s what it looks like to me.    So, that’s it in a relly BIG nutshell.  But please — let’s not start yet another flame war OK?  If you don’t agree with me that’s fine — GOOD actuallly!  But try to be civil in your disagreement posts.  I am trying to be polite and mature in airing my opinions and I hope that others will try to do the same.  If Victoria or anyone else wants to disagree then please do so.  But just saying I am being unfair or acting like an ostrich with my head in the sand or something similar does no one any good.  Tell me WHY you disagree, give me logical, reasonable, adult foundations for your beliefs.  I will listen to that because I want to understand your viewpoint on THIS topic and THIS topic only.  This post is not about anything else!   Ok — that should be it for now.  If this starts another round of bovine scatology then I will gratefully ignore it!  I bought into the trouble that the Pattern Piggies were stirring but I WILL NOT get into a fray over this.  It feels as if RCTN is finally levelling out and I might have stirred the fire again but I sincerely hope not.  Of course, it won’t be the first time I have done that and if it does happen, then I heartily apologize to all of you ahead of time.  It is not really necessary to have the absolute last word so hopefully, this will be my last word on this topic.  CiaoMeow ^;;^< . PAX, Tia Mary   ^;;^<     Angels can’t show their wings on earth but nothing was ever said about their WHISKERS!!   Nothing is complete without a few cat hairs! No husband was ever shot doing dishes! Visit my photo album  http://www.photopoint.com

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Karen C., Elizabeth, Jeri, Donna, and Vickie…..to name a few :-p) who had the gumption to speak up

I appreciate the "applause", since sometimes I wonder if I’m being too offensive. Can’t wait to see Tia Mary’s post on the subject, since she minces words even less than I do! Had anyone else made the connection that a prime trait of alcoholics is "denial" and our troll seems to be very good at denying that her actions are at the root of all evil?  Perhaps it’s time for another visit to AA, Troll! Psssssst  Pssssssst  Psssssst <spraying heavy-duty anti-troll spray — Finished 9/30/00 – Dumbo (Disney) WIP: #1 – getting my health back California Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe, America the Beautiful (Nimble Needle), antique green doll (Vervaco), Xmas cactus Don’t risk your on-line privileges!  I report all Spam.

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I just wanted to say thank you to so many of you out here (namely Trish, Nan Evelyn, Pat P, Joyce, Katrina, Arliss, Emerald, Kay, Sue, Karen C., Elizabeth, Jeri, Donna, and Vickie…..to name a few :-p) who had the gumption to speak up and say what I had been thinking and feeling for so long.  THANK YOU ALL!!!!!   I was beginning to wonder what was wrong with me to be having such thoughts of antipathy, especially towards only one person. I now know that I am not alone in my misery of where this group has been taken, and in that, I take great comfort. Christy (who will immediately revert back to her lurker-only status until RCTN becomes a kinder, more gentler place to be)

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Christy, don’t go back to lurking!!  I’ve been lurking a long time here, and it occurred to me that if some of us "lurkers" (me included) would just join in the fun and needlework discussions, we can all learn together, and help MAKE this the kinder, gentler place it was, and should be!  What do you think?  I know there are a lot of others out there too, that are probably afraid to post anything, lest they get flamed for being a little less than "perfect".   Well, heck, this newsgroup has room for all kinds of nice people like us <BG, and there is "strength in numbers", after all! I read several NGs, but post mostly on RCTQ. We’ve had our share of flame wars there,to be sure, but they never seem to escalate as they do here.  I’m not sure why that is, but I would hate to lose some of my favorite posters here just because of a few whose lives are so "perfect" they can’t see beyond their own egos. So , come on, all you other lurkers! Let’s help get this great NG back on track, and forget about this "splitting up" nonsense! Well, gee, I guess I forgot to warn you all, I can get a little "wordy"!! <VBG Vickie in Ohio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just wanted to say thank you to so many of you out here (namely Trish, Nan Evelyn, Pat P, Joyce, Katrina, Arliss, Emerald, Kay, Sue, Karen C., Elizabeth, Jeri, Donna, and Vickie…..to name a few :-p) who had the gumption to speak up and say what I had been thinking and feeling for so long.  THANK YOU ALL!!!!!   I was beginning to wonder what was wrong with me to be having such thoughts of antipathy, especially towards only one person. I now know that I am not alone in my misery of where this group has been taken, and in that, I take great comfort. Christy (who will immediately revert back to her lurker-only status until RCTN becomes a kinder, more gentler place to be)

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