Act Acting » Voice Acting » Kids and blades

Kids and blades

Question:

My kid’s school has a zero tolerance against weapons. My 10 year old had his Cleveland TA’s with him to practice after school and they arrested him.  If he had had Ping’s he’d be at home with us…  more forgiveness. snif… :-)   The above is not true…. but it could happen in these days of courts commonsense. — — — David "Thor" Collard — http://ttsoft.com/thor

Response:

I prefer small headed fairway woods. My 4 wood is 25 years old and causes some titters until I smack it down the middle. It’s so easy to hit off any type of lie. Maybe because the head is smaller you have to concentrate a bit harder; anyhow I like it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The truth is [for many] that with smaller headed clubs, one is likely to concentrate a bit more in order to hit the ball on the sweet spot.  I still use some older steel headed fairway woods [Cobras] that are much smaller than many fairway woods and miniscule compared to the El Whoppo driver I’m now carrying.  Do I hit then just as squarely as the driver?- probably.  There is a point of diminishing returns – especially in irons.  Several attempts to market jumbo sized irons have not met with success; of course one reason is that large/wide irons wouldn’t do well in the rough. But, if my mid-sized forged cavity backs were a bit smaller, I don’t believe they’d hurt my game.  As for cavities [vs. blades] of course there is more forgiveness for off-center hits.  Do they cure toe jobs or hosel whops?  Nope! I agree that the hype is overexaggerated as I’ve only recently changed for musclebacks to cavities. I was expecting the cavities to prevent all mishits etc (I listened to the hype).

Response:

I agree that the hype is overexaggerated as I’ve only recently changed for musclebacks to cavities. I was expecting the cavities to prevent all mishits etc (I listened to the hype).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m trying to compare the exact same mis-hit–one being a forged  blade  mine are musclebacks) and the other being a cast cavity back.Consider the mishit is the exact same position on each away from the center. But you’re still not saying how far away the mishit is! The difference between the two shots is next to nothing. For a 1/4" mishit, maybe.  For a 3/4" mishit, a lot more! Karsten was a good engineer, and a great marketer—but the backside of the club doesn’t hit my ball… Then why do they put weight behind the ball in "muscleback" blades? Maybe the affects of peremiter weighted clubs is 1-2 % correction. Like I said, the amount of forgiveness (not correction) depends a LOT on how far you miss the sweetspot by.  I think you’re underestimating the difference because you hit the ball relatively close to the sweetspot, even your mishits are not that bad.  Go out to the range with some muscleback blades and some Pings, and REALLY mishit some and you’ll see the other extreme of this debate.

Response:

The truth is [for many] that with smaller headed clubs, one is likely to concentrate a bit more in order to hit the ball on the sweet spot.  I still use some older steel headed fairway woods [Cobras] that are much smaller than many fairway woods and miniscule compared to the El Whoppo driver I’m now carrying.  Do I hit then just as squarely as the driver?- probably.  There is a point of diminishing returns – especially in irons.  Several attempts to market jumbo sized irons have not met with success; of course one reason is that large/wide irons wouldn’t do well in the rough. But, if my mid-sized forged cavity backs were a bit smaller, I don’t believe they’d hurt my game.  As for cavities [vs. blades] of course there is more forgiveness for off-center hits.  Do they cure toe jobs or hosel whops?  Nope!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree that the hype is overexaggerated as I’ve only recently changed for musclebacks to cavities. I was expecting the cavities to prevent all mishits etc (I listened to the hype).

Response:

I’m trying to compare the exact same mis-hit–one being a forged  blade  mine are musclebacks) and the other being a cast cavity back.Consider the mishit is the exact same position on each away from the center.

But you’re still not saying how far away the mishit is! The difference between the two shots is next to nothing.

For a 1/4" mishit, maybe.  For a 3/4" mishit, a lot more! Karsten was a good engineer, and a great marketer—but the backside of the club doesn’t hit my ball…

Then why do they put weight behind the ball in "muscleback" blades? Maybe the affects of peremiter weighted clubs is 1-2 % correction.

Like I said, the amount of forgiveness (not correction) depends a LOT on how far you miss the sweetspot by.  I think you’re underestimating the difference because you hit the ball relatively close to the sweetspot, even your mishits are not that bad.  Go out to the range with some muscleback blades and some Pings, and REALLY mishit some and you’ll see the other extreme of this debate.

Response:

I recently changed from blades (25 years old) to cavities and I have found them to be slightly easier to play with (but not as much as people would lead you to believe).

That’s mostly because you are fairly consistent in hitting the ball on the clubface.  A lot of golfers aren’t.  Take a look at the face of a club at your local golf store demo mat.  The ball marks are all OVER the place.

Response:

I’m trying to compare the exact same mis-hit–one being a forged  blade ( mine are musclebacks) and the other being a cast cavity back.Consider the mishit is the exact same position on each away from the center. The difference between the two shots is next to nothing. The forged club feels worse–but those two balls will be lieing next to each other. I play with the Mizuno MP-14’s. My 2nd set is the Titleist 962’s. At address and looking down at the clubs–I can’t tell them apart. Same size, same shape, same offset, same topline,–only difference is the Mizunos have a briter shine due to chrome. I hit them the same–except the Mizunos are softer, the affects of forged metal. It’s easier to bend the ball on purpose. Karsten was a good engineer, and a great marketer—but the backside of the club doesn’t hit my ball and the peremiter weighted philosophy is highly exagerated. Maybe the affects of peremiter weighted clubs is 1-2 % correction. Thats nothing and is more easily improved by practice than club design. Clubmakers love cast clubs–the COG is much less. Just my opinion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes– But I still believe this. It’s all marketing. Pure shots on the center of each are great. Poor shots on the toe of each result in errors. It’s not rocket science. If one wants to compare distance and acuracy differences of the same toe-hit off each type—the differences are so close it doesn’t matter. If you are 15 yards short of a green with a cavity-back; and 18 yards short of a green with a forged club–it doesn’t matter–you hit a poor shot. The only thing Karsten did was put more profit into clubmaking. The difference is more than you imply.  It depends a lot on exactly how much you miss the sweetspot by.  In some cases, it’s WAY more than 3 yards difference.  And let’s talk about a shank, while we’re at it.  Miss that blade 1/3" toward the heel and your ball is going dead right and OB.  You have more leeway than that with a Ping.  Miss by the same amount and you only lose a couple yards, straight.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes– But I still believe this. It’s all marketing. Pure shots on the center of each are great. Poor shots on the toe of each result in errors. It’s not rocket science. If one wants to compare distance and acuracy differences of the same toe-hit off each type—the differences are so close it doesn’t matter. If you are 15 yards short of a green with a cavity-back; and 18 yards short of a green with a forged club–it doesn’t matter–you hit a poor shot. The only thing Karsten did was put more profit into clubmaking.

The difference is more than you imply.  It depends a lot on exactly how much you miss the sweetspot by.  In some cases, it’s WAY more than 3 yards difference.  And let’s talk about a shank, while we’re at it.  Miss that blade 1/3" toward the heel and your ball is going dead right and OB.  You have more leeway than that with a Ping.  Miss by the same amount and you only lose a couple yards, straight.

Response:

Yes fun is the most important thing but I think that you are exaggerating the differences between blades and cavities. I started playing with blades and must admit that it was no fun playing 36 holes a day with them, practicing until dark, not going home until I’d holed two bunker shots in a row etc. I played with my blades for 25 years and changed to cavities because I now need all the help that I can get (I only play every other week at most). I still have a wooden 4 wood with an aluminium shaft. People are amazed to see how small the head is and are more amazed when I put one outside their driver or hit a high fade from a bad lie. Yes it’s a hard and frustrating game and some people will give up. But I don’t think that it will be because they were playing with blades.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fine.  You put a set of blades in the hands of your 11-year-old.  We’ll see whether he decides after six months if golf is any fun. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information:  http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm The RSG TOUR:  These Guys are Goons My RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting:  www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link. I’m not convinced. True, kids don’t have a grooved swing but they learn really quickly. I still feel that with blades you can learn better striking. Blades are not as difficult to use as some people think. Maybe kids should start during the first year with cavities to improve confidence but I would quickly move them to blades. Similarly I wouldn’t let kids start with a 400cc headed driver – they are better with a small head where accuracy of strike is important. There’s no point disguising bad habits which you can get away with cavities – this will be exposed later on when they hopefully reach a higher standard. You have it backwards.  Kids (beginners) don’t have a swing grooved, so there’s no way to expect them to hit blades with any consistency. Besides, the one thing all beginnners want to see is the ball getting up in the air. They’re more likely to see that with perimeter-weighted clubs. It’s after a player gains some skill that they’re ready to graduate to blades. Although a surprising number of pros play with cavity back clubs. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information:  http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm The RSG TOUR:  These Guys are Goons My RSG Roll Call profile:

http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting:  www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link. It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc.

Response:

I remember the Ping Eye 2 when it first appeared. I don’t think that it sold so well because of any hype about peripheral weighing etc (that came soon afterwards). It was because they looked so different and for some reason caught on (maybe the lofts were stronger which made people think that they were better, i.e. longer). I recently changed from blades (25 years old) to cavities and I have found them to be slightly easier to play with (but not as much as people would lead you to believe).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yes– But I still believe this. It’s all marketing. Pure shots on the center of each are great. Poor shots on the toe of each result in errors. It’s not rocket science. If one wants to compare distance and acuracy differences of the same toe-hit off each type—the differences are so close it doesn’t matter. If you are 15 yards short of a green with a cavity-back; and 18 yards short of a green with a forged club–it doesn’t matter–you hit a poor shot. The only thing Karsten did was put more profit into clubmaking. Brad Blades–(forged muscle-backs really–nobody makes real ‘blades’ anymore) aren’t harder to hit than cast cavity backs. Give the kid one of each and he’ll hit them each equally. People who *think* forged clubs are harder to hit will probably hit them poorly. The only advantage to cavity backs is they are cheaper to make–more profitable for the clubmaker, and they last longer. Karsten Solheim sold you a bunch of crap and the lie still exists to today. Are you crazy?

Response:

Blades–(forged muscle-backs really–nobody makes real ‘blades’ anymore) aren’t harder to hit than cast cavity backs. Give the kid one of each and he’ll hit them each equally. People who *think* forged clubs are harder to hit will probably hit them poorly. The only advantage to cavity backs is they are cheaper to make–more profitable for the clubmaker, and they last longer. Karsten Solheim sold you a bunch of crap and the lie still exists to today.

Are you crazy?

Response:

Yes– But I still believe this. It’s all marketing. Pure shots on the center of each are great. Poor shots on the toe of each result in errors. It’s not rocket science. If one wants to compare distance and acuracy differences of the same toe-hit off each type—the differences are so close it doesn’t matter. If you are 15 yards short of a green with a cavity-back; and 18 yards short of a green with a forged club–it doesn’t matter–you hit a poor shot. The only thing Karsten did was put more profit into clubmaking. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Blades–(forged muscle-backs really–nobody makes real ‘blades’ anymore) aren’t harder to hit than cast cavity backs. Give the kid one of each and he’ll hit them each equally. People who *think* forged clubs are harder to hit will probably hit them poorly. The only advantage to cavity backs is they are cheaper to make–more profitable for the clubmaker, and they last longer. Karsten Solheim sold you a bunch of crap and the lie still exists to today. Are you crazy?

Response:

Blades–(forged muscle-backs really–nobody makes real ‘blades’ anymore) aren’t harder to hit than cast cavity backs. Give the kid one of each and he’ll hit them each equally. People who *think* forged clubs are harder to hit will probably hit them poorly. The only advantage to cavity backs is they are cheaper to make–more profitable for the clubmaker, and they last longer. Karsten Solheim sold you a bunch of crap and the lie still exists to today. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fine.  You put a set of blades in the hands of your 11-year-old.  We’ll see whether he decides after six months if golf is any fun. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information:  http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm The RSG TOUR:  These Guys are Goons My RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting:  www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link.

Response:

Interesting.  One of these days I’ll have to try some. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not that important. Modern cavity backs go further than ‘old’ blades simply because the lofts are stronger. It’s more important to hit your irons consistently accurately. There’s opinion that blades do go further if struck correctly but that cavities are better when struck off centre. It’s after a player gains some skill that they’re ready to graduate to blades. Although a surprising number of pros play with cavity back clubs. Is there an indication that blades go farther than cavity backs?

Response:

Fine.  You put a set of blades in the hands of your 11-year-old.  We’ll see whether he decides after six months if golf is any fun. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information:  http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm The RSG TOUR:  These Guys are Goons My RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting:  www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not convinced. True, kids don’t have a grooved swing but they learn really quickly. I still feel that with blades you can learn better striking. Blades are not as difficult to use as some people think. Maybe kids should start during the first year with cavities to improve confidence but I would quickly move them to blades. Similarly I wouldn’t let kids start with a 400cc headed driver – they are better with a small head where accuracy of strike is important. There’s no point disguising bad habits which you can get away with cavities – this will be exposed later on when they hopefully reach a higher standard. You have it backwards.  Kids (beginners) don’t have a swing grooved, so there’s no way to expect them to hit blades with any consistency. Besides, the one thing all beginnners want to see is the ball getting up in the air. They’re more likely to see that with perimeter-weighted clubs. It’s after a player gains some skill that they’re ready to graduate to blades. Although a surprising number of pros play with cavity back clubs. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information:  http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm The RSG TOUR:  These Guys are Goons My RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting:  www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link. It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc.

Response:

I’m not convinced. True, kids don’t have a grooved swing but they learn really quickly. I still feel that with blades you can learn better striking. Blades are not as difficult to use as some people think. Maybe kids should start during the first year with cavities to improve confidence but I would quickly move them to blades. Similarly I wouldn’t let kids start with a 400cc headed driver – they are better with a small head where accuracy of strike is important. There’s no point disguising bad habits which you can get away with cavities – this will be exposed later on when they hopefully reach a higher standard.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You have it backwards.  Kids (beginners) don’t have a swing grooved, so there’s no way to expect them to hit blades with any consistency. Besides, the one thing all beginnners want to see is the ball getting up in the air. They’re more likely to see that with perimeter-weighted clubs. It’s after a player gains some skill that they’re ready to graduate to blades. Although a surprising number of pros play with cavity back clubs. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information:  http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm The RSG TOUR:  These Guys are Goons My RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting:  www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link. It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc.

Response:

It’s after a player gains some skill that they’re ready to graduate to blades. Although a surprising number of pros play with cavity back clubs.

Is there an indication that blades go farther than cavity backs?

Response:

It’s not that important. Modern cavity backs go further than ‘old’ blades simply because the lofts are stronger. It’s more important to hit your irons consistently accurately. There’s opinion that blades do go further if struck correctly but that cavities are better when struck off centre.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s after a player gains some skill that they’re ready to graduate to blades. Although a surprising number of pros play with cavity back clubs. Is there an indication that blades go farther than cavity backs?

Response:

You have it backwards.  Kids (beginners) don’t have a swing grooved, so there’s no way to expect them to hit blades with any consistency.  Besides, the one thing all beginnners want to see is the ball getting up in the air. They’re more likely to see that with perimeter-weighted clubs. It’s after a player gains some skill that they’re ready to graduate to blades. Although a surprising number of pros play with cavity back clubs. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information:  http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm The RSG TOUR:  These Guys are Goons My RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting:  www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc.

Now *that* is backward thinking.  Not only do blades result in feedback, they also result in bad shots.  So bad shot after bad shot, they are getting plenty of feedback telling them how bad they are.  They might as well have someone standing behind them shouting "YOU SUCK!", "YOU SUCK!" shot after shot.  Yessirree, plenty of negative feedback there. But then, once they *can* hit good shots, get rid of those silly blades and give them forgiving cavity backs.  Huh??

Response:

Yes there is a risk that they think that they can’t hit good shots but I was brought up on blades and they aren’t that bad. It’s not as if you hit bad shot after bad shot. On balance I think that it’s better to avoid cavity backs if you want to learn good striking. Once learnt you can use cavities. But any good player who starts as a kid generally doesn’t go for big deep cavities with large offsets – they tend to stay toward the blades.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc. Now *that* is backward thinking.  Not only do blades result in feedback, they also result in bad shots.  So bad shot after bad shot, they are getting plenty of feedback telling them how bad they are.  They might as well have someone standing behind them shouting "YOU SUCK!", "YOU SUCK!" shot after shot.  Yessirree, plenty of negative feedback there. But then, once they *can* hit good shots, get rid of those silly blades and give them forgiving cavity backs.  Huh??

Response:

Brilliant concept! I used the same concept 3 years ago when I started and here I sit a 15 year old with a single digit handicap!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc.

Response:

It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc.

Response:

If the kid has proper instruction, he’ll learn to strike the ball crisply no matter what club he uses. — "There are simply some emotions that cannot be expressed with the club still in one’s hand" Bobby Jones

Response:

I have cavity backs, albeit smallish ones that have a progressively smaller cavity as you go toward the wedges.  Golfsmith Tour Cavity.  They give me plenty of feedback but are a little more forgiving than blades.  Lose maybe 5-10 yards on toe hits and don’t get a crisp sound, more of a clank.  Shanks still go right :-)  I agree with your theory, though.  I think the less forgiving the club, the more you have to focus on hitting it right, which will make you a better ball striker. — Jon

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s my view that kids should begin learning golf with blades and not cavity backs. For woods, they should avoid jumbo heads and instead use small headed shallow woods. The reason is that this helps them to learn how to strike the ball cleanly. They get more feedback when they hit a bad shot. With cavity backs they can get away with a sloppy swing and less precise contact. Yes they will be pressurised by their peers to get the hippest newest clubs but I think that in the long run they will be better golfers. Later on when their swings are grooved they can get cavity backs etc.

Response:

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