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Request: Can we please..

Question:

Bryan, I have always posted at the top and use outlook express which places the cursor at the top in expectation of posting at the top.  I prefer it that way.  Where is the "rule of netiquette" published that you are referring to? Don D. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc. — Bryan S. Slick, bryan at m1a1hokie dot net "To those who preserve it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

Response:

says… Bryan, can you explain what you mean?  Is it what I’m doing now, starting at the top.

Yes. I think it looks better to post on top when the message is short. Especially for the purpose of following threads, as in I already read the previous guys stuff.  Yes, one way would be better, but I think the etiquette was a result of old technology (see below).

Whatever your configuration, if some people post at the top, and some post at the bottom, it makes *individual* posts containing *multiple* quotes hard to follow. Regards. — Nick Webster

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If this is top-posting, then I can’t really support your gripe.  As I dare say most people these days use threaded newsreaders like Outlook or Agent, it only makes sense to me to put the most recent response(s) at the top.  I absolutely hate having to scroll down to the bottom of a post to find the new response.  I already know the context if I’ve been following the thread. Yes, it’s a bit more of a pain if you come into a message with multiple responses contained therein and you haven’t seen the originals, but the majority of the time this isn’t the case. Michael ..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc.

Do you not see what he means?  It now looks like I’m replying to Brian’s message (if you read from the top), when in fact I’m replying to Michael’s. It’s just easier if everyone uses one method. Regards. — Nick Webster

Response:

Where is the "rule of netiquette" published that you are referring to?

From RFC1855:     – If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you       summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just       enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make       sure readers understand when they start to read your response.       Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the       postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a       response to a message before seeing the original.  Giving context       helps everyone.  But do not include the entire original! HTH. — Nick Webster

Response:

Yes, Nick, I *do* see what you mean.  If you had posted your reply at the top, it would have been clear that you were replying to my message!  Instead I had to scroll all the way down to find it and then figure out to whom you were responding. All in all, though, I really don’t care very much which way people do it. If they include context, locate their reply next to the message to which they are replying, write clearly, leave a little white-space so I can find their reply, show some manners, AND have a sense of humor, that’s all that I can ask. Cheers! Michael

Do you not see what he means?  It now looks like I’m replying to Brian’s message (if you read from the top), when in fact I’m replying to Michael’s. It’s just easier if everyone uses one method.

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Response:

OK – but where and what is RFC1855? Don D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is the "rule of netiquette" published that you are referring to? From RFC1855:     – If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you       summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just       enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make       sure readers understand when they start to read your response.       Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the       postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a       response to a message before seeing the original.  Giving context       helps everyone.  But do not include the entire original! HTH. — Nick Webster

Response:

RE: Posting in RSG <clip All in all, though, I really don’t care very much which way people do it. If they include context, locate their reply next to the message to which they are replying, write clearly, leave a little white-space so I can find their reply, show some manners, AND have a sense of humor, that’s all that I can ask. Cheers!

I’m satisfied if any one of the above criteria is met. "Someone likes every shot" bk RSG FAQ:http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html

Response:

If this is top-posting, then I can’t really support your gripe.  As I dare say most people these days use threaded newsreaders like Outlook or Agent, it only makes sense to me to put the most recent response(s) at the top. I absolutely hate having to scroll down to the bottom of a post to find the new response.  I already know the context if I’ve been following the

thread. If one only "reposts" enough of the previous message to provide context, and then replies with a bottom-posted response, it is _generally_ considered better form. This allows you to read news in chronological order rather than "threaded", and you are not at the mercy of ISP’s that provide inadequate allocation on their news servers, i.e., you don’t lose context just because your ISP drops posts. May your next round be your best round. Dave Please: no spam, off topic, or crossposts as explained in the RSG FAQ: at  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html

Response:

It pisses me off that this thread was ever started! I put this at the top and the bottom so nobody will miss it. Bryan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ..stop with the top-posting? Why?  It’s almost always easier to post at the top. For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Netiquette being ignored on this newsgroup?  Never! Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc. Gosh, and to think there are people wondering if they will get another meal.  Really, this is a small problem for which you will get little agreement.  I think you might just have to adapt to the new world. Not everyone has experience pre-dating AOL. Rick Rider Please: no spam, off topic, or crossposts as explained in the RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html My RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/riderr.htm

It pisses me off that this thread was ever started! I put this at the top and the bottom so nobody will miss it. Bryan

Response:

I agree, and it looks as if most of the group posts at the top also.  It probably is due to the usage of the program that you are using to access the forum.  I can understand that someone likes posting at the bottom but I will continue to post at the top.  It makes it easier for me to follow the thread. Don D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But that is an ancient ancient rule (like the term "netnews") no doubt coming from the text terminal usage in the past, and biased to unix command line stuff that most people don’t even use anymore as there interface to usenet.    Top down is better. Where is the "rule of netiquette" published that you are referring to? From RFC1855:     – If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you       summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just       enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make       sure readers understand when they start to read your response.       Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the       postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a       response to a message before seeing the original.  Giving context       helps everyone.  But do not include the entire original! HTH. — Nick Webster

Response:

RSG:  Home of the response-Nazis!  Sheesh. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All in all, though, I really don’t care very much which way people do it. I agree, I just think it would be easier if we all used the same method; all top, or all bottom! Regards. — Nick Webster

Response:

The file system not the tool dictated adding text at the end as appending to a file is still the easiest thing to do. May VI rest in peace. Golf is how I get away from all this UNIX do-do.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But that is an ancient ancient rule (like the term "netnews") no doubt coming from the text terminal usage in the past, and biased to unix command line stuff that most people don’t even use anymore as there interface to usenet.    Top down is better. ee VI gum lad

Response:

The ANSWER is snip out irrelevant text and sigs, so that it doesn’t matter whether it’s top, bottom, or inline posted. What _truly_ is a problem is when someone replies to a 300-line message saying "ROTFLMAO" and doesn’t chop out at least most of the 300 lines.  It cuts down on volume and helps clarify your point.  Just leave enough text (and those lines Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc.

Response:

All in all, though, I really don’t care very much which way people do it.

I agree, I just think it would be easier if we all used the same method; all top, or all bottom! Regards. — Nick Webster

Response:

OK – but where and what is RFC1855?

RFCs, put simply, are kind of the ‘rules’ of all the stuff that makes the Internet work. Check out www.faqs.org if you want to know more. HTH. — Nick Webster

Response:

All in all, though, I really don’t care very much which way people do it. I agree, I just think it would be easier if we all used the same method; all top, or all bottom!

Shouldn’t be a problem.  When have you ever seen disagreement on this news group? "Someone likes every shot" bk RSG FAQ:http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html

Response:

Okay, slickface.  You are being anal, you stupid pisshead!  We talk about golf here, so pull your golfclub out of your fat ass and talk about what this newsgroup is here for.  So, there are a couple of people who accidently respond to the wrong part of a thread.  For that, I am truly sorry. EVERybody on the planet will stop doing that right now.  And on behalf of every user on the entire planet, It will never happen again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc. — Bryan S. Slick, bryan at m1a1hokie dot net "To those who preserve it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

Response:

visit this link please……. http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a940211.html

….blah blah…please stop  top-posting…blah…….

Response:

Don’t know what you mean, but if you’re referring to the new content added by each poster on TOP of the message (and the replied-to content on the bottom), well, that’s just the way the software does it. Talk to Bill Gates. Or the hand… Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information:  http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm The RSG TOUR:  These Guys are Goons My RSG Roll Call profile:  http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting:  www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc. — Bryan S. Slick, bryan at m1a1hokie dot net "To those who preserve it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

Response:

But that is an ancient ancient rule (like the term "netnews") no doubt coming from the text terminal usage in the past, and biased to unix command line stuff that most people don’t even use anymore as there interface to usenet.    Top down is better.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is the "rule of netiquette" published that you are referring to? From RFC1855:     – If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you       summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just       enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make       sure readers understand when they start to read your response.       Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the       postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a       response to a message before seeing the original.  Giving context       helps everyone.  But do not include the entire original! HTH. — Nick Webster

Response:

But that is an ancient ancient rule (like the term "netnews") no doubt coming from the text terminal usage in the past, and biased to unix command line stuff that most people don’t even use anymore as there interface to usenet.    Top down is better.

ee VI gum lad

Response:

If this is top-posting, then I can’t really support your gripe.  As I dare say most people these days use threaded newsreaders like Outlook or Agent, it only makes sense to me to put the most recent response(s) at the top.  I absolutely hate having to scroll down to the bottom of a post to find the new response.  I already know the context if I’ve been following the thread. Yes, it’s a bit more of a pain if you come into a message with multiple responses contained therein and you haven’t seen the originals, but the majority of the time this isn’t the case. Michael ..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc.

Opinions expressed herein are my own and may not represent those of my employer.

Response:

Bryan, can you explain what you mean?  Is it what I’m doing now, starting at the top.  I think it looks better to post on top when the message is short. Especially for the purpose of following threads, as in I already read the previous guys stuff.  Yes, one way would be better, but I think the etiquette was a result of old technology (see below). My nntp server won’t allow my to post less new text then original, so if I [snip] I’m not doing it to be impolite or take quotes out of context :-) Also, I think with graphical based newsreaders, it’s easy to point somewhere [like the top] then start typing.  Oppossed to back in the 80’s when using unix vi or "ed" and appending to the bottom.   I think the PC vs. the ascii terminals of old may be the cause of the shift. By the way back in the 80s/early 90s, I hated "rn" liked "readnews" which may have been local bell labs stuff.  More recently, I don’t like the interface of agent or netscape.  I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I love the MS Outlook interface, and the interface is just like my email.  AND I was a long time "gui" mail hold out too, using unix "elm" until about two years ago when attachments became a business need. P.S. Sometimes I do make it intermixed: person one says

I say blah blah person one

etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc. — Bryan S. Slick, bryan at m1a1hokie dot net "To those who preserve it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

Response:

..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc. — Bryan S. Slick, bryan at m1a1hokie dot net "To those who preserve it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

Response:

..stop with the top-posting? For the high level of activity on this newsgroup, and the seemingly experienced posters, I must admit I’m a bit shocked to see such a glaring (and ANNOYING) rule of netiquette ignored again and again. Yes, I’m being anal.. but dammit, it’s irritating to change back and forth with each post, scrolling up for one, then down for the next, etc, etc.

You’re going to have to learn to go with the flow.  Many of the regulars still send a one word reply on top of a 200 line post. "Someone likes every shot" bk RSG FAQ:http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html

Response:

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